Too much? I'm a little nervous...

We did both the last 2 seasons... I managed a travel team, and helped out our friends w/coaching in the Cal Ripken league... It was OK as far as time-spent, the one thing that was difficult was 7:30-7:45 pm start times during the week for League-Ball Games, it does interfere with homework time, and they get to bed a little later than normal... Having said that, we won't be doing the league this Spring, as the new Travel-Team he's on will require more overnight weekend travel, and it should be enough ball for him...

We took the exact opposite approach. The League was secondary and just for fun, and Travel-Ball was always the #1 priority, because overall it's much more competitive. Also, the Travel-team depended on 10-11 regulars just to be able to play, where the league-ball teams have 11-12 guys and would always have enough to play if 1 or 2 guys weren't there (like when we were at USSSA Tournaments).

Quite frankly, I'm somewhat surprised at the Travel-Ball's agreement with you regarding priorities, as most teams wouldn't allow that, at least the ones that we've been involved with here in FL... The only time they really budge on this is around All-Star's where there is some travel involved...

-Good Luck.

I can understand whay you are surprised. I'm looking at from the comfort level standpoint. My son is only familiar with 1 kid on the team, and I'm not sure I want him going into it thinking he in sudenly changing venues. He also made the District all-star team last year and he really wants a chance to compete wiht that team again.

I don't think that it is too much as long as your son is not a pitcher as well. If he is, you will have to be VERY careful that he is not overused. With two teams being coached by two different people, you are the only one who will know when and how much he has pitched. Be very careful and firm with overuse issues if he is a pitcher.

He does pitch. But I will be keeping track of his PC. His PC will apply to both teams.

There are multiple issues here. One is playing too much and not resting his body. He's in key growth years. You don't want to mess of the joints. A second issue is pitching for two teams. When you hear about a preteen toasting his arm, this is where it starts. Another issue is overlapping schedules. When a kid returns to his second team and is allowed to start after missing practice and games I believe this is the beginning of grooming a prima donna.

My son played LL and travel. The travel was a USSSA weekend doubleheader league. The LL didn't play on Sundays. We scheduled all our games on Sundays. I communicated with the coaches of all the pitchers to know how much and when they pitched in LL that week. On Sundays pitchers never went more than two innings. In total my son played about 55 games. He played 30 something LL games since his all-star team played into August.

When my son played travel exclusively after LL, when he was in 13U he said one thing he missed about LL was the "win or die" approach to all-stars. He said in tournament ball when the team loses, they just come back next week for another tournament.

Our LL warns travel players if they miss LL games for travel they will not be selected for all-stars. I believe we found happy middle ground. And if the all-star team is good, it's a memorable experience. My son played into August again at age twelve. When we visited the LLWS my son was proud to point on the field and say, "It took them (one of the teams) to stop us."

Check out this site on pitch counts.

ASMI

RJM,
That is exactly the type of feedback I am looking for. Thank you. Our goal is to find a happy medium. My son loved playing in the District tournament for his all-star team. This is why the travel coach and I are in agreement that LL comes first (including practices). The main reason I am letting my son play travel is because of the game experience that offers that LL doesn't (leading, dropped 3rd strike, etc.) The other thing is, I coach (don't manage) on his LL team. So my plan is to work with the manager to plan his pitching days in advance and come up with his availability to pitch in travel (based on the pitch count rules in LL). If there isn't much there...then so be it. My son's health is my number 1 priority. Being someone who has suffered (and still does) from the effects of throwing too much, I will not let my son go down the path I did.

Thanks again!

Pat,
We did both at 11 and 12. It can work out well as long as you are in agreement with the coaches as to who has priority. If the travel coach is ok with missing practices and the occasional game then go for it. Have a great summer. Make sure that the parents are also informed about the agreement. When we did both, travel came first. I told the coach and President of the LL that we would do it and travel came first. I told them that if any parents were not on board we wouldn't do it. As a fourteen year old, the president asked if my son would play juniors under the same agreement. I said no. It was too uncomfortable, to me, knocking some kid off of his spot because my son could play that day. My son would do it in a heartbeat. I prefered not to this time. It was pretty crazy and I also have two daughters who would like a little of my time. Plus the wife. LL is a blast, playing with your neighbor hood friends, being the top dog. But it also comes with some baggage when you are on two teams. Be aware of it regardless of what the parents and coaches say.

And let everyone else pitch when you are playing both leagues. There will be time to pitch when your son is on one team.

quote:

The main reason I am letting my son play travel is because of the game experience that offers that LL doesn't (leading, dropped 3rd strike, etc.)

Where a kid plays and under whatever rules won't have a bearing on his ability to play high school. Our 13U team picked up some LL kids who had never played with leads. They picked it up quickly. I've seen kids who played with leads back to 10U who aren't skilled base runners or good at holding runners. It ultimately comes down to talent and practice not where they started.

quote:

I told them that if any parents were not on board we wouldn't do it.

When my son played 13U USSSA travel he was rostered in the 13U, 14U and 16U community based program's travel teams as a fill in player. He only played when they needed players. It created a lot of tension with the parents when he showed up, led off and played short. He should have hit last and filled the empty position.

Imagine the parents at the 16U doubleheader when he led off and played second. I figured he'd bat last, play left and be told just make the routine plays. When the team was at-bat he sat on the bench in isolation the entire day. The kids didn't want him there. I never let him play another day for that team.

To be honest, we never had any problems with the players. Ever. They know who can play after an at bat or by reputation. The parents were always the instigaters. My son has filled in for a lot of teams over the years(pretty funny, he's only 14). The players and coaches were always glad to have him. The parents, not so much.

It's funny ow this all plays out. Parents are the ones who whine the most.We are in a very similar situation. My 13U son has been ask to play on 2 13u teams.3 14U teams (2 very good programs 1 out of Iowa and 1 from Chicago) and a 16U team. Only one of the 14U teams decided that since we would not commite to them fulltime that they withdrew the offer. It really was for the best as they were the lowest of the priorities anyway. What we decided to do was commit 100% to one of the 14U teams and will pick up with the 16U team once travel season in 14U is over.I am a believer in playing as much as possible while you can.Good winter/preseason workouts,Proper rest and good nutrtion/hydrartion are key to playing thru fall.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM: ...And if the all-star team is good, it's a memorable experience.

Sometimes... This past summer we went into our All-Stars with what I and basically everyone involved with our league's opinion, was the strongest team that anyone could remember... Pitching was 11-12 deep, all top-level, 11 guys on the 13-man roster could hit it out of any youth baseball park...

We played 2 games in the districts lost both, and were eliminated... I could write a book about the month of hell we were put through watching this mess... It was incredible.

Bolts-Coach-PR:

Boy can I relate - we had the best team I have ever seen from our league - two guys in the 70s, solid hitting and defense - 2 and a Q.

You just never know...

IMO he should continue to have fun playing league ball. He should also be playing other sports also if he is interested in them.

A good time to get some travel ball experience is in the 13-14U time frame, with 14U being better than 13U. As long as it is fun for your family and son travel ball is great, but the reality is that it uproots your family from week-ends (if you have to travel and spend the time in hotels, etc) it costs a lot of $$ and really won’t make that much difference in HS in the long run.

I can remember no greater time in my son’s baseball experience than when my son was in LL. In the regular season it was swapping stories with all your neighbors and watching their kids and then LL All Stars came around and it was playing with some of the better kids from the community at large. If you win you move on to districts and if not you can follow teams on through the tournament. Does not get any better than this.

If money is an issue (it always is to some degree) then I would put more $$ into good coaching and less into travel as long term the best athletes rise up when in HS, regardless of where they played. Mentally going through our Varsity team this year. Catch – some travel, 1st some travel, 2nd league only, SS league only, 3rd league only, LF some travel, CF league only, RF league only. Pitching staff has the same mix. My son played travel at 13U and went back to league play at 14U with some travel in between. He did this because he missed playing with his buddies, plus I could see that he was getting more out of one on one coaching then traveling around.

quote:

Originally posted by Pat H:
I really don't want to overload my 11 yr old.

Then why play for two teams at 11? SS and pitcher makes for a combination of lots of work for a young arm. Your son can play on two teams later as he matures, when it counts the most, if he wants to play at a higher level someday.

They all love playing, your son is no different than anyone else's. The parent needs to make a decision and realize there might be consequences when their son tells them at 16,17 (or maybe younger) his shoulder hurts.

It is a proven fact that most baseball injuries in young players are a result of overuse.

Pat,

My son (now 13) played strictly LL at age 10 and 11. At age 12, he played LL and was on a travel team (weekend tournaments only). Now, at 13, he will be playing on a travel team that plays league and tourneys, and we are also considering our local rec. league - more laid back and less pressure.

Will this travel team play in a weekly league or just in tournaments? If it is only tournaments you truly might have time for both.

Around here, travel team practices and games take priority over a Rec league.

Obviously, your son has some talent if he was placed on an All Stars team. IMO, 12 years old is early enough to start travel ball. Kids pick up pretty quickly on the changes (pitching distance, stealing bases, dropped 3rd strike,etc)

You know your son, talk to him again, tell him how much he'll be playing, the time involved, things he may be giving up (free time, etc). Make a pros/cons list together, sometimes it helps to see things on paper.

Sometimes I think we forget how old they are (esp. some of the bigger boys). They are only kids for a short time. My husband reminds me of this all the time....

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
It is a proven fact that most baseball injuries in young players are a result of overuse.

"travel ball is fine for position players but has destroyed many many young arms" JC college coach I know.

Another idea to consider is to take the 12YO LL allstar team out as a travel team to a couple of events after they are done with LL. Avoids the in season extra load - and gives the boys something to look forward to when the inevitable happens...

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:
Bolts-Coach-PR:

Boy can I relate - we had the best team I have ever seen from our league - two guys in the 70s, solid hitting and defense - 2 and a Q.

You just never know...

When my son was eleven the all-star team was loaded. They had LLWS potential. The team still went to section finals. That's where daddyball caught up with the team. The managers's son should have been a MPT'er. He started, batted fourth and never came out of the lineup. One kid led the team in homers getting one at-bat a game. The manager didn't like him coming into the league at age twelve and wouldn't start him. The team had more pitching than it knew what to do with. There were four stud pitchers. The problem is the manager's son wasn't one of them and daddy had him at #3.

We had one of those All-star teams too when my son was 12 and playing Cal-Ripken. As 10yr olds we had won our leagues first ever State Championship and made it to Regionals where we came in third. Well Cal Ripken instituted the 70' league during his 12yr old season which our league didn't participate in. Our biggest rivals in the state did as well as most of the powerhouses from CT. We added a couple of kids who were 12 again due to the new cut off dates. We figured with their addition we were an even better team. Thought we had a decent shot at going to Regionals again and maybe the 60' WS. Well apparentely the coach thought that way as well as we lost an extra inning game in districts to our cross city rivals and dropped to the losers bracket final. Our Ace (coaches kid...but he truly was the ace)had pitched his 6 innings the prior night in the extra inning loss. So my son starts the next game and is throwing a no-hitter through 3 innings of a scoreless game. Well coach wanted to be everybody's friend so he rotated kids left and right so everyone played and pulled my son (parent's were just shocked he would do so..their parents included) and brought in another kid..walk..walk..3 run bomb and kids morale and game were over as well as the season. so much for the clear path to the WS...lmao

Thanks everyone for the info. As a result I asked my son if he is sure he wants to play. I asked him to give it some thought and sit on it. I also told him that his priority right now should be LL. The District All-Star team was great for him last year, and I have communicated that to the travel coach. He stated, and agreed, that LL would be son's priority. The most important factor is my son's health. His pitching is ruled by his LL team. Meaning if he reaches his pitch count in a LL game and has a travel game the next day...he will not see the mound. If the coach has an issue with this, he has gone back on his word and can find another SS. I'm not trying to bemean about it but at that point he would be going back on his word.

Thanks again for all the info. This site is incredible.

My son played year around baseball from the age of 10-14. We always shut down travel during the little league season. Little League is a great time in a kids life...let him enjoy it. Adding travel in the mix really becomes overwhelming. You are always letting someone down. Plus as a parent you get burnt out. Travel gets real old, real quick driving to and from tournaments every weekend! Good Luck!!

Perhaps because I worked in NYC and its surrounding areas from the age of 16 on I never had the strange feelings many of you seem to have-- the kids playing ball was my release from the daily stress in the office

Honestly I think every kid is different. They all need down time. My kid is 12. We started playing in the local LL 3 years ago. He knew alot of the kids, and to them the regular season was like the sandlot baseball I played all day when I was a kid. To HIM and the other kids I coach, rec ball is their time to talk trash to their buddy's, joke around, have a good time, and basically use the regular season as live practice. Of course our league may be the exception....the talent level is split among three different organizations in our local area.

We won Districts as 11's last year for the first time in memory. I've got all my guys coming back this year as 12's. The attitude of parents / coaches / board members is alot different now. They know what it feels like to WIN now. They saw the influx of some new to LL players this year because of what we did during All Stars last year.

The kids love the LL tourney environment. In their words, it's "..like they are playing for all the guys that didn't make the team..." "...even parents and kids that didn't make the team come out and cheer for you" These are quotes from my 11's last year.

My 12U Travel team plays some tournaments during the LL regular season. And it's never been an issue. Because at this point more than half of the District All Star team is on my travel team (most have been for several years). Playing at the travel level with better competition helps them for LL come All Star time.

As soon as All Stars start, we shut the travel season down.

Unfortunately I think I'm still 3 kids away from having a team that could make it on TV....but you never know. Of course the frustrating fact is that those 3 kids live in the District, and COULD play LL. They all play for a local Academy Travel Team. All the kids wanted to play LL this year. The "parents" voted to not play LL and go to Cooperstown this Summer. Of course I later found out that the Coach of this Academy team tried to find out how he could get HIS son (a very good player BTW) on the LL for this year, after our run last year. Found out he couldn't. He lives in a different District. It was right after that it was "voted on" that none of their players would play rec ball.

But of course I digress..sorry.

As long as he's not being over used, and he both programs know about the other's existence and are fine with it....and the KID WANTS to do it...let him play.

I've always wished they had travel ball when I was 12. It was a LONG WAIT after All Stars, getting through Fall Ball..(nowhere near the same level)...let him play.