Tough choices & ramifications

Hey Mom, what's the title of that discussion so we can go read it?

Baseballmom,
Have not been following the story, just had briefly heard about what happened.
Lifestyle changes, culture shock occur in every scenerio, there are some who attend college who are not happy with the decision either and after a few days want to come home, baseball or no baseball. It called being homesick.
And there are many baseball players who leave after 3 years of college and miss it very much, wish they were still back in school they are homesick too. They are however a bit older and used to living on their own, the transition is easier.

As draft time approaches, it is an important time for families to understand what it means for a very young man to join the work force so early.

As someone once told us, once you make the decision, you can never go backwards. If my son made the wrong choice and had doubts, I would rather he be having those doubts at XYZ University rather than somewhere in the middle of nowhere, regardless of the money offered to him.
That is why it it VERY important to understand what bbscout said in another topic, if you want to play pro ball directly out of HS, then be committed to do so, if you would rather go to college, then go.
Thanks.

TPM
My sentiments, exactly....
This young man had been "scouted & recruited" for a couple years. Pros & cons of both possibilities/options were clearly spoken...but sometimes it's hard to "hear".

Read the article.

Sounds like a completely confused "kid".

I keep telling people every day. Different world, low-level minor league ball. If you can't adapt, you're doomed. Some kids have never even talked (before being assigned to a summer team after the draft) with a black kid or a latino who can't speak English but can really play baseball.

Can't understand the hard line of the Rockies, either. Give the kid his Release and get on with life.

It's not that this 17 year old kid would instantly make the WOEFUL Rockies immediate World Series contenders!

Not the first mistake the Rockies organization will make and not the last.

I remember the Mets drafting a 17 year old shortstop, California kid, in the 1st or 2nd round in about 1994-1995. He got his bonus money and then quit. I think he came back and lasted a minor league season or two and that was that.

BT, basicly agree as well, except for the release

from a business view, it wouldn't be wise to release a (valued) player under contract without some kind of compensation . . .

tho it has been done, like the Cavs releasing Boozer with 2 yrs remaining on his contract so a better contract could be done (for Boozer) . . .
a better contract WAS done - BUT Boozer "bolted" & did it with Utah . . .
ouch :eek :


a business can't afford too many "smart" moves like that

All I can say is I'm glad he didn't join the military.

17 just seems so young to make such a life changing decision..... I don't think the majority of 17 year old boys are mature enough to commit to anything......besides cars, fast food and girls.....and I say this after having worked in a few high schools.....

Good point, Fungo, the same thought crossed my mind.

One thing is for certain: Professional baseball is not in the babysitting business.

.

Have heard a number of these stories, even for college players of some repute...though never this high profile...

Brings up two very important points...

First, The value and fun of college ball, which should be a goal in and of its self...not simply a stepping stone per se.

Second, Pro ball particularly in the low minors it is a different world, and seemingly can be an impersonal come down at some level, even from college ball. Beyond the athletic skills it takes a different set of mental and emotional sensibilities.

44

Apparently not only in the low minors. There's the current case of Zach Grienke, who walked out of the Royals' ST at the end of February to deal with psychological problems and pretty much hasn't been heard of since. He's still on the 40 man roster, listed as on the 60 day DL.

Zach, drafted out of hs as the 6th overall pick, was called "the future of pitching" playing in the majors in 2004 (after pitching all of 180 innings in the minors). Last year was not so successful; but he was, of course, pitching in front of the Royals .

And somehow I doubt he was picking up dinner at the local Albertson's....

It is hard to understand.

I was wondering if the scout responsible for signing this player will possibly suffer repercussions from his superiors?

doubtful...
No one from the top down, or visa versa suspected his "mind set" would change. This was a total surprise to all concerned.

Everyone...BeenthereIL made an important point that we could easily ignore or gloss over.

Our boys...anybody's boys, are at a disadvantage when they are not exposed to other cultures. I don't know anything about the kid in Texas or anything about his environment or up bringing. So the issue of cultural exposure may or may not have been the problem.

I just know that this is important whether our kids are in athletics, academia, or private business. If our environment doesn't provide that kind of exposure naturally, then we need to constructively facilitate it. I'm telling you, the world, our world is changing. And most of those who will be successful in life, will need to know how to interact well with people from other cultures.

My son's natural environment did not necessarily place him in a position to interact with White, Hispanic and Asian kids. We intentionaly placed him in these environments so that he could become a well rounded person. As a result, no matter what team he played on while growing up, from East Cobb (many times being the only Black player) to a Perfect Game team, he was always able to relate well with all the kids. Trust me,it's important.

.

Great point Catfish.

Another related thought...as we continue to increase our efforts as parents to micromanage the lives of our kids, the less "coping skills" they develop.

If there is a single thing that has changed in the kids I coached 25 year ago from the ones I coach now it is how few can deal effectively now with adversity and challenge. Many of the situations that build chracter have been conveniently removed from their lives.

Too much fighting their battles for them rather than supporting them in the fight.

Too much effort covering up a lack of skills rather than helping them fight to develop them.

Too much stuff and comfort disguised as love.
Not enough love.

JMO.

44

I'm with beenthere and his opinion on the hardline stance of the Rockies. Allowing the kid to get on with his life is the real issue as they are now holding him hostage with a "real life" nightmare. The longer this kid still has a thread of this experience attached, the longer it will play with his mind. If anyone else is as perplexed as I am how a kid can throw away an opportunity that he did, we can only imagine what his next step may be. The mind acts in different ways for different peoople and I feel that right now his mental health is at stake unless he can put the whole episode behind him. For the good of this boys life, the Rockies should cut ties as he has already "blackballed" himself professionally.

mostly very good points, tho I'd tend to think along the lines of another poster that basicly dis-regarded the "baseball factor"

quote:

by Chairman: . . I do NOT begrudge the decision not to play, that's a personal choice & water over the dam

however . . . I'd be clear with "mine" that there IS work for a hs guy with NO experience on his uncle's farm, at the mill, driving truck, or in a department store so he could start pulling his weight in return for home cooking/laundry/board & to start saving for college

hanging at the LL park ok after work, unless he worked the farm as it would be sun-up to sun-down

and I do wish that young man the best
(also ANY other young man making decisions about life's direction)

btw, this was NOT a life changing decision



btw II, right on re the farm, when I did that I had enough energy left to eat & get to bed for the next days job - - hats off to the guys in the field



.

quote:

....Many of the situations that build chracter have been conveniently removed from their lives.

Too much fighting their battles for them rather than supporting them in the fight.

Too much effort covering up a lack of skills rather than helping them fight to develop them.

Too much stuff and comfort disguised as love.
Not enough love.

Great points OB44 and I agree with Catfish as well.

Along similar lines and potentially more harmful, they are starting to theorize now that some of these strange allergies kids develop may in fact be related to leading such "insular" lives that the immune system was not given a chance to properly develop.

Catfish and 44:

Both of you made excellent points.

I understand you completely Catfish...you've taught your son very well...and believe it or not you may have taught some of your son's teammates a valuable lesson as well...it is not easy to cling to stereotypes when faced with someone who does not exhibit the stereotypical behavior that you may have been taught to expect.

I'm hoping that your son found some good and longlasting friendships on those teams!


And 44 you're absolutely correct in your assessment of now vs. 25 years ago. Common problem solving sense is in short supply nowadays...it would serve us well to find it again and pass it around freely...we need it!

I briefly read this article the other day and found it very disturbing. The kid didn’t sound like he had much of a transition period before being thrown to the wolves.

Was he sent to the team psychologist for counseling? I was told they had them to help these kids cope with being away from home. Perhaps, some organizations are just better at dealing with high school kids than others.

I hope things work out for him and 20 years from now he has no regrets.

HOWUBE,
There is no transition period, you sign (especially a bit later than others) get on a plane or bus and a day or two later you are playing baseball.
You arebnow employed and expected to go to work asap.
No orientation programs like in college.

However, I do understand some teams (eg Braves), who draft mostly those out of HS are better than others at recognizing some of these kids are away from home for the first time in their lives.

TPM,

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I thought that at least one team I talked to said the kids go to some place in Florida (I think) and play all their games there for several weeks. Of course, I could have gotten things mixed up. It sure wouldn't be the first time.
But, I am going to be asking that question from now on.

I have been trying to find a list of organizations that are considered good with high school kids, but other than the Braves I haven't found much info.

HOWUBE,
Very good question to ask each and every team you speak to about their minor league system, where you begin and where you end up.

Not all teams begin their rookies in Florida, which sounds a bit more inviting than Jasper.

"I briefly read this article the other day and found it very disturbing. The kid didn’t sound like he had much of a transition period before being thrown to the wolves."

HUB, by that comment,I am not sure what you might be expecting for your son if he gets a chance to be drafted and play minor league baseball. Is it a bed of roses? Not a chance. It is hard work where you learn to be professional and really learn how to play the game. Absolutely. I would bet a very large sum of money that there were 24 other players on that busride, described in the article, who were thrilled for that opportunity.
If your son is drafted out of high school and offered enough money to convince you to sign, most every organization is going to give you the maximum chance to succeed. However, organizations are not likely to respond well to those who love the environment of the major league park but find every reason to find "fault" with the process in place to get you there.
One of our own, NJBB's son played right out of high school, and played in the Pioneer League where the Casper Rockies team is located. Chris had a fabulous season and rocketed himself right into the Royals top 10 prospects. I think the article reflects a very small minority of those who get drafted and sign, but it is an eye opener if you don't fully investigate and understand the process. In minor league baseball, if you are one who looks at the jar as "half empty," you had better hope it is a very small jar if you are going to overcome that "negativity."

This has been a very interesting thread to read and I do believe that some very good points were made ref learning about other cultures, making life a bit soft for our kids, etc.

One thing that I would like to add is that the feeling of being tossed to the alligators when a player arrives at their first assignment is not unique to players drafted out of high school. I don't know what the other parents of pro players on this board would say, but our son ... who had traveled as far away as Alaska for college summer ball ... sounded on the verge of tears when he called from his hotel room the first day. No one gave him any idea of what was expected, how he was supposed to find a place to live, etc. It wasn't something his MLB parent team tended to, and definitely seemed out of the realm of anything his minor league team or owners worried about. (I do know that some teams have an orientation of sorts for their players before heading out to the first assignment ... one of our son's college teammates signed with the Padres and he went to Arizona for several days before heading to his short season team in the Northwest.) And I am pretty sure that our son had the same kind of thoughts that many rookie players feel that first week/month/season ... what the heck am I doing here? When they realize the answer is "I am striving to live my dream", they settle into their new lives and get to work.

Too bad this young man had to deal with this at an early age ... sounds like he didn't have the coping skills he needed to succeed in the earliest stages of his career.

We know a couple others drafted last year and both report having "the time of their lives". It was new, & different (and difficult, but very managable)...they are living their dream today, growing into adulthood & learning to be a pro ball player, thankful for the chance. And, then there is Shane Funk, who posted many updates last year on his great experiences.

I don't think the location where one starts out to play should be a factor, which reminded of the lyrics from the Broadway musical, " Seesaw":
It's Not How You Start"...Liza Minelli or Shirley McClaine also recorded/sang it, I think.

It's not where you start, it's where you finish,

It's not how you go, it's where you land.

A hundred-to-1 one shot, you call him a klutz,

can outrun the favorite, all he needs is the guts.

Your final return will not diminish,

and you can be the cream of the crop.

It's not where you start, it's where you finish,

and you're gonna finish on top.

It's all attitude, perspective, & heart desire along with a lot of hard work!

Not meaning to sound like I am finding fault. Unless, one is directly involved in the situation, one can’t really know all the details.

[NJBB's son played right out of high school, and played in the Pioneer League where the Casper Rockies]

That is great! I love success stories.

As far as my son goes I am just “doing my homework” as advised by many. Just in case. If my son had his way he would buy his own bus ticket, which is why I believe it is important for parents to be involved and learn as much as possible.

Interesting note from another sport: During the March Madness, the washington Post interviewed several NBA players about their memories of the tournament. Every one of them said the best times they ever had were while playing college basketball. Some of these guys have NBA title rings, but favorite times...were in college. Something to consider.

My son had a culture shock when he went to rookie ball too. He signed out of HS and left 2 days later. He ajusted to a lot of things he didn't like and is having a great time now (even though he's rehabbing in AZ)

What has happened to our youth that they have to "transition" into manhood? I'm with Fungo. It's a good thing he didn't join the military or get drafted or have to work the coal mines to help his family. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
All I can say is I'm glad he didn't join the military.

Within the first few days (48 hours) of arrival at basic training, a recruit who realizes he made a mistake by joining the military, may request to leave. It is usually approved (after much counseling and discussion) with no ramifications to that individual. The military doesn't really want someone if they are hard set about not staying.

Since he didn't play - isn't it possible that he could go on to play DII?

quote:

As far as my son goes I am just “doing my homework” as advised by many.

HUB, I would agree with that 100%.
In reading your posts about "camps" in Fla, there may be confusion. After players have been drafted and signed, most high school players, but not all, will start in Rookie Ball. That will mean an assignment to either the Appalachian, Pioneer, Gulf Coast or Arizona league. These leagues are very much different. In the first two, you are experiencing everything about minor league baseball. Small communities, night games, long bus rides, late night meals, etc. The latter two are run from the teams' minor league camps, you play during the morning, minimal travel. The experiences and so much different. One thing is clear though, after the AZL or GCL, minor league baseball can be a tough grind, on and off the field.
I have read the article that started this thread and come away with the impression that we do not know the whole story. To me, the busride, towns in the Pioneer League,Albertson's vs a hamburger sound like "excuses," not the reasons. For anyone who wants a polar opposite article and is a subscriber to BA, read the article on Brian Horwitz. Much different impressions from a player who started as an unsigned free agent in 2004.
Finally, there is a difference between college/professional ball that I have observed and not seen in the comments. If you are a top prospect in a high level DI and do not perform to expectations pretty early on, there is little doubt your playing time will be affected. The reason, that coach is paid to win. In the minor leagues, if you are a prospect and struggle, you will be out there everyday. The reason: the minor leagues are to develop players and move them to the next level. Winning is emphasized but not over player development. I watched a young man struggle mightily last summer but he played every day and struggled every day. The team never gave up on him and never sat him. Had he been in college, he would have been lucky to play in 10 games. As it was, he played in about 120. Major difference between college and minor league baseball that is not very obvious but is an every day occurence in major DI's and minor league baseball

Infield dad, you make an excellent point! And so true.

infielddad,
I do not necessarily agree with the comments that a college coach will sit a player if he struggles.
I agree that the college game is about winning, but there are many fine college coaches that realize that there are adjustments to be made and sometimes it takes awhile and sometimes there are slumps and struggles.
I am watching one of our youngsters struggle this year, had an unbelievable year as a freshman, he has never once been removed from the starting lineup. We also have a player who had a decent freshman year, struggled all sophmore year and now is on fire, he sat out once in three years.
A really good recruiting coach sits and watches a player and sees what he has and what he can do and makes his decision to sign him from that evaluation. He knows that player most likely will struggle somewhere in his college career, that's why many freshman get limited playing time (a whole other discussion). Coaches in college do not want their players to fail and from what I have seen most are given every opportunity to succeed. An important thing to consider when deciding on where to go.

The player that is often recruited by his HS, college numbers and never seen may be one you are speaking of, or come recommended by someone. Not often the case, but it happens. That's why we often say, HS stats are not always as important as seeing one play.

TPM,
You are probably right based on what you have seen and experienced
I tried speak in generalities and also can only speak from what I see and read and experience. Based on that, I made the comments I did on college vs pro and player development. I will not provide any names but am aware of a player who was nationally recruited and considered one of the top high school prospects by many of those who provide that information. He is not a freshman. His entire college experience involves less than 15 games, no starts and less that 20 at bats. In my view, because college coaches are under so much pressure to win and reach the post-season, they play the same 8 position players almost all of the 56 game schedule. That leaves some really good players with no game experience whatsoever. That is the point I am trying to make. In minor league ball, if you are a prospect, you play and they develop you. With a 56 game schedule and the emphasis on winning/postseason, many players suffer on the development side...or get none at all.