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Tounament Pitching Rotation Questions

S Sugi100+ posts
For those of you who coach or participate in youth baseball tounaments,How do you handle your pitching rotation? What I'm asking is how do you spread the work load of 3-5 games over a three day weekend amongst your pitchers(how many do you use?).Do you as a coach have a general plan or strategy or do you just follow what the tounament comittee has set forward as of innings/pitches--rest period.I'm assuming nobody throws twice in the same day.
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T texdex10+ posts
Sugi--as a parent, I can tell you what I have seen our team do (and what I did when I did coach).. We had "Saturday" and "Sunday" pitchers, basically saving our better pitchers for Sunday. We kept pitch counts, and would pull pitchers when they approached , hit, or slightly surpassed the limits, without considering the tourney pitch limits (our limits wre more restrictive than the tourney's typically) Our pitchers could pitch more than one game a day, or even over both days, depending on the situation (for example our "stud" might close 1 game for 1 inning, and then start another game), but we always worked off a total pitch count, not a game pitch count.
Last edited by texdex
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
I ran a travel team for a few years and would go 2-3 innings one day and 2-3 innings the next (never 3-3, usually 2-3) Sometimes we would pitch a kid the game and then he would be done for the week-end. This was before pitch counts were big but I would always pitch count a kid and shut him down around 40-45 if I was going to use him the next day.
NEVER NEVER two games in a day under any circumstances.

Knowing what I know now I would lean toward pitching a kid a game and then shut him down or DH him if he can hit. Most teams use their better pitchers in pool games and if they are up against a weak team then they will sub tehm out for the championship rounds. Contrary to what texdex posted we would always try to get to a high seed position so by the time we got to a championship game all of our best starters were done.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Overall we tended to use the same strategy as BOF. In our last tournament we had a big win in the semis and absolutely no chance in the finals. In that one the way pool play set up we only had to win one of two games to make the semis so we threw our weaker pitchers against the team we ended up playing in the semis and one of our better pitchers in the game we had a good shot at winning. Then we threw the best we had for that tournament in the semis and he had the game of his life throwing a 65 pitch complete game. I leaned toward using a kid one day, one game max and that was it for a 2 day tournament. No fixed pitch count but pitchers seldom went more than 4 or 5 innings in a 2 day tournament. A lot of times that meant dipping down well past our usual pitchers when we didn't really want to. Our Saturday pitcher was usually selected due to a couple pitchers who couldn't play on Sundays for religious reasons.

My favorite was LL all-stars where over 5 games no pitcher threw more than 7 1/3 innings total.
Last edited by CADad
M mdbaseballdad10+ posts
At U12 we did the following:

No more than 100 pitches during any 7 day period. This forces us to monitor league pitching as well and sometimes we don’t have all our pitchers for a tourney. No pitching twice in one day. No more than 30 pitches if we plan on using the kid the next day- no new hitter after 24. If the other team is tough and our guy is going good we may decide to just go with him and be done for the tourney.

If the kid pitched the previous day we usually won’t go past 40-50 the 2nd day. Again this varies based on his total 7 day count, how he looks, high stress innings, etc. We consider a high stress inning 25 pitches. After one high stress inning we won’t let him start another hitter after 20 in another inning no matter the total pitch count- even if it’s only the 2nd inning.

85 max for a fully rested pitcher but we monitor this closely. We only have two guys strong enough to go that far anyway so most are usually done in the 65-75 range.

From what I’ve seen this is fairly conservative. It’s way more conservative than most tournament rules, especially those that go by innings instead of pitch count. Out of 12 kids we have 10 that pitch- a luxury I know but we need that many if everyone plays league ball.

We’ve made all the mistakes as well- such as saving a kid for a game we never get to. As we’ve become more experienced we’ve tended to start pitching our better pitchers earlier, let a kid keep going if he’s doing well (still within pitch counts) and move on rather than trying to ration our best pitchers over several games. It’s a bad feeling to leave knowing you still had gas in the tank or be put in a position that you have to win 3 or even 4 games on elimination day.

At U13 we plan to keep the same guidelines, especially for consecutive days, but the weekly pitch count will go up to about 125 or so.
S Sugi100+ posts
Thanks for the replies.That's pretty much what I had in mind.Another thing that concerns me is that some of the pitchers are also catchers.

mdbaseballdad,
Out of 12 kids on your team and having 10 as pitchers,I'm sure some of those boys were also catching.I prefer my son to catch minimum innings before going on the mound and not the other way around.I think too many innings catching gets his legs tired and his pitching stuggles because of it.I never like for him to catch after pitching as I prefer the arm to rest.

What's your guys thoughts on this as well?For a regular weekend of games it's not an issue but during tournaments,there's a large number of innings played in a short time frame.
M mdbaseballdad10+ posts
Sugi,

The simple answer is that the two kids that don't pitch are catchers. One will pitch at times so that gives us 11 but only in certain circumstances. We have 2 other kids that can catch but really aren't our tournament catchers.

We also are careful with our shortstops. We have two, one really solid but he just throws hard and is only now learning how to pitch so he is used selectively as well. We definately won't let a kid catch after he pitches.

This will be our 4th year together and it has taken time to develop this mix.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
At 10U you need two, sometimes three pitchers per game. They pitch to your designated pitch count and remove them. They shouldn't pitch again. Let the other coaches win tournaments no one will remember in two years and toast their pitcher's arms. Kids shouldn't pitch and catch on the same day.

Did the head coach of my son's 10U team operate this way? No. His three studs had damaged arms/growth plate issues by the time they were twelve. I wouldn't let my son pitch for him except an occasional inning.. He caught and played center. He's pitching in high school with a very live arm. No one remembers the 10U studs unless it's a discussion on how they blew out their arms.

From asmi.org ....

Recommended limits for 9-10 year old pitchers:

50 pitches per game
75 pitches per week
1000 pitches per season
2000 pitches per year

What isn't noted here is their view on pitching back to back days. I'm against it for young pitchers. You have no idea what damage you may be doing to their arms/open growth plates.
Last edited by RJM
C cball500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by mdbaseballdad:
At U12 we did the following:

No more than 100 pitches during any 7 day period. This forces us to monitor league pitching as well and sometimes we don’t have all our pitchers for a tourney. No pitching twice in one day. No more than 30 pitches if we plan on using the kid the next day- no new hitter after 24. If the other team is tough and our guy is going good we may decide to just go with him and be done for the tourney.

If the kid pitched the previous day we usually won’t go past 40-50 the 2nd day. Again this varies based on his total 7 day count, how he looks, high stress innings, etc. We consider a high stress inning 25 pitches. After one high stress inning we won’t let him start another hitter after 20 in another inning no matter the total pitch count- even if it’s only the 2nd inning.

85 max for a fully rested pitcher but we monitor this closely. We only have two guys strong enough to go that far anyway so most are usually done in the 65-75 range.

From what I’ve seen this is fairly conservative. It’s way more conservative than most tournament rules, especially those that go by innings instead of pitch count. Out of 12 kids we have 10 that pitch- a luxury I know but we need that many if everyone plays league ball.

We’ve made all the mistakes as well- such as saving a kid for a game we never get to. As we’ve become more experienced we’ve tended to start pitching our better pitchers earlier, let a kid keep going if he’s doing well (still within pitch counts) and move on rather than trying to ration our best pitchers over several games. It’s a bad feeling to leave knowing you still had gas in the tank or be put in a position that you have to win 3 or even 4 games on elimination day.

At U13 we plan to keep the same guidelines, especially for consecutive days, but the weekly pitch count will go up to about 125 or so.


That's about exactly what we did and I would volunteer my team for Friday night pool play for the day of rest when it was available.

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