Transfer Rule Recruited Walk On

quote:

by livbb: his son is being treated like all the scholly players

when you break it down, his situation isn't special .. & the nli is a non-factor
once he becomes a member of the team (ie: recruited walk-on, on campus & practicing),
he falls under ncaa rules & compliance -
inc transfer rules


from the nli home:

"A common misunderstanding related to the NLI is that the NCAA national office administers the program. However, in actuality, the Collegiate Commissioners Association (CCA) has administered the NLI program since its inception in 1964. Consequently, all questions directed to NCAA staff concerning the NLI are re-directed to either conference offices or the NLI national office."

hope that helps

Bee...I think you're right that the NLI gives people a lot of misconceptions...in the NCAA's mind, once you are on the roster, you are on the roster, whether you are getting 0% or 100%.

.
I would second that...

I would definately research this one with some phone calls to the appropriate adminstrators, and then I would try to get some written confirmation if I could. My sense is that the Recruited walk on rules are either being made up as we go, or left to the schools to decide.

Like usuall I could be wrong on this one but....

...from what I can tell...and I was backed up by a couple recruiters that I talked to,....Nobody thought this thing out very well, PARTICULARLY when it comes to recruited walk on's. In fact while the NCAA restructured the scholarship %'s insuring that each team will have at least a handfull of recruited walk on's it would appear that they never really figured out how the rules were to be interepted for the walk on population that they themselves have helped increase in #. As a result there a number of scenerios like the one that you have mentioned, particularly regarding Recruited walk on's that were never very well thought out. As a result there would appear to be an element of making up as we go along.

For example the rules are clear that there are no DI to DI transfers at mid year. But who EXACTLY does that apply to? What EXACTLY does "a member of the team" mean? On Baseball $? Enrolled? Recruited walk on (no $, no paperwork)? Try out? Cut after a day? Voluntarily leave? After A Week? Two Weeks? Name on the Fall roster? Or in a very literal interpretation of the regulations does all he have to do is enroll and a year is gone? And if indeed the fall roster rules are so important...are there fall roster rules ? What are they? Where can I find them? Are they being changed to fit the new regulations? If so when will they be available?

What about leaving at mid to go to another level. For example, What If he participates through the fall and then gets cut/decides to leave goes to JC beacsue he sees no playing time does he have to sit ANOTHER full year when he returns to DI? Effectively costing him 1 1/2 years? He was a "member of the team" in the fall, just be being a recruited walk on, right?

The sad thing is that these are players who are not getting baseball $, and at some level I can understand coaches and schools wanting some measure of control over the players they have invested $ in but to ding a player a year of eligibility for essentially trying out seems a bit Draconian to me. I do hope that there is some logical sense made out of the role of Recruited walk on's.


44
.

o44, you need to understand that the "recruited walk-on" was not forced onto the team against his will ... he has agreed going in that "athletic aid" is not a key factor to him playing his sport - and accepted the university's invitation (thru coach) to particpate in ncaa athletics

quote:

by o44: In fact while the NCAA restructured the scholarship %'s insuring that each team will have at least a handfull of recruited walk on's it would appear that they never really figured out how the rules were to be interepted .... What EXACTLY does "a member of the team" mean? On Baseball $? Enrolled?$

not sure where you're going there?
what's to figure?

A) a recruited walk-on is on the team roster when he arrives on campus & practices -
he is NOT a future open try-out candidate/wannabe - he attends team meetings & gets a locker w/his # on it ...
regular enrolled students can't practice with the team or have a locker w/#.
the r'walk-on must be a qualifier & the clearinghouse must ok him, he has compliance & insurance (injury) paperwork. his academic progress is tracked the same as all other athletes .
ie: the university & ncaa compliance recognize his team status

quote:

by o44: sad thing is that these are players who are not getting baseball $$

sad? ya mean like the money (-0-) that football & basketball walk-ons get?
they do now & have had to sit out a season w/DI transfer
why should baseball be different?

because we like it a whole bunch? ... that may not fly

It is my understanding that once you enroll in a post secondary school the 5 year clock starts. The only way to avoid wasting a year is to RS.
I find it confusing that there will be a 33% minimum scholarship imposed in 08 and how that would effect roster size and guys who might have signed for book money.
I also understood that NLI were only rquired for scholarsipped players.

I would rather take a year off,work and play ball and tell the school you would appy next year and make me an offer. Why would you want to be on the tryout "roster" only to be cut or RS from the team spring Roster. Doesn't make sense. Also once they have you try getting money out of them latter on.

quote:

by o44: What If he participates through the fall and then gets cut/decides to leave goes to JC beacsue he sees no playing time does he have to sit ANOTHER full year when he returns to DI?

I don't believe the new changes affect DI to DIII/NAIA tranfers or that the "4-2-4" transfer rules were changed at all.

tho it could be a factor in his decision if he were heading to a school that uses the fall as a tryout/cut period (homework done BEFORE commitment, not mid-term fall)...

the few who do use fall cuts will have to work at actually identifying talent beginning w/2008 class.

the player ought to have a fair idea of how things "should" shake out regarding playing time before he makes his commitment ... and btw, high expectations of playing time for an NLI freshman should be tempered, & those of a r'walk-on freshman for 1rst yr PT even more tempered

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I also understood that NLI were only rquired for scholarsipped players.

Correct. The original poster said: "Does the new transfer rule affect recruited walk ons who have no NLI? ..... Since he is not signing a NLI..."

Be advised that there is a review meeting on August 9th regarding the new baseball rules---it also appears that the Text message edict may also be on the table at that time---nothing is set in stone yet

.
Good info TR....

Be interesting to see what comes out of this.

44
.

I think we will see changes to the proposal---college coaches I have talked to are not happy with all the facets of the proposal

The term that I keep seeing with all of this is the "Year in residence". Being on campus begins your residency regardless of scholarship or not.

.

TR...

Would echo that...have talked to a lot of people who will be affected, and few, if any, seem to be happily on top of the changes and the ramifications.

Let's hope they make some sense of it. At the very least they need to Phase it in over time.

44.

.
Coach Merc...

EXACTLY what I was trying to get at earlier...

It would appear that simply enrolling at a DI school (walk on or not) will cost two years baseball eligibility. The year in residence and the sit out transfer year. Call me foolish, but I still think that is a bit draconian.

44
.

quote:

by o44: It would appear that simply enrolling at a DI school (walk on or not) will cost two years baseball eligibility. The year in residence and the sit out transfer year.

OK .. agree if he arrives on campus,
tho your accessment presumes that the player plainly suc.ks and has no business in that DI program ... then of course, he would lose 2 yrs of baseball if he chose mid-yr to pursue another DI program.

call me draconian, but, were it my son, I'd explain "that is more than fair" - as there are often harsher & alot more expensive penalties for making an un-informed decision placing yourself in a situation where failure was likely ... I'd also expect an IOU for the cost of any college credits lost

then - I'd step in & offer him a choice of a DIII or JC trans & take the decision out of his hands - JC/DIII recruitment would be up to him

I have seen several guys transfer from a D1 to another. Some after fall cuts and others after the year. They got releases and started with their new team right away. Has this changed.
Two guys were gone after fall session and started right away at a new school.

quote:

by bbhdl: Has this changed? I have seen several guys transfer from a D1 to another. Some after fall cuts

yes, but presumably w/the 35 man roster limit lazy coaches bringing in 50 guys for the fall squad/cut will be a thing of the past

FALL CUTS are the "black eye" and not the norm in DI baaseball

Thanks for all the clarifications. This young man had offers from other schools in state but wasn't sure so he skipped the first signing period. He received interest from this big time D1 after the first signing period and the coach said he had no more money. The head coach called this boy every week expressing his desire for the boy even though he had spent his money. The kid said if he has the ability to play after college, it will be tested at this school. If he can't earn a starting role, then he will commit to getting his college degree and move on. The coach has treated him in the same manner as the kids with the money and promises to do so in the future. The only problem I see this kid having is if the coach doesn't keep his word. Thanks again for all the help and I'd love to see everything work out for this kid.

Living this sounds pretty typical. Coaches break their word constantly. We had a very similar situation and we passed. It is rare that a coach spends all the money in the 1st signing period. They always hold some back for late signs.

quote:

by livbb: The kid said if he has the ability to play after college, it will be tested at this school

that's not even rational thinking, as it would also be true at MANY MANY schools ..
does the kid have even a clue how many DII, DIII, NAIA, and JC guys are drafted each year?

quote:

by livbb: coach has treated him in the same manner as the kids with the money and promises to do so in the future

how so? he reads the same sh** on "his" phone call as on the calls of others?
how does the kid even know?

look, I'm all for a kid going w/his gut feeling, but from everything described here - -


they're telling him - "you'll be our tackling dummy"

he's hearing - "you'll be our #2 fullback"

scarry

Harsh as it sounds I have to agree with Bee on this.

They have already treated himdifferent NO BB MONEY.

Even the guys who have signed have to fight for playing time and that can change in a nano second.

He knows you can get drafted at any level of school but he feels this school will prepare him better than most because the facilities, trainers, and coaches(reputation and win record) are above many. He's 18 and hasn't seen the nasty side of business like we have and I know his father has talked to him about it. He believes if he plays better than others, he will play since the coach wants to win. Even kids with money don't have guarantees, only the coaches word and a tuition reduction. Sure they have something invested in them but will they play them if there is someone better? Who knows? Nobody knows.

w/all due respect, it doesn't get much more basic

IF he could play better that the guys with money .. .. he'd already have money

quote:

if he plays better than others, he will play since the coach wants to win.

Every guy on the team believes that. Most freshmen see little if any time. I think he should understand that as well. If that is a magor D1 they have players that will be tough to beat out as well as returning seniors, Juniors and Transfers.
Many freshmen and sophs struggle with this reality.

From talking to him, he knows about the older guys and JUCO transfers. He has watched his competition and feels he can offer more. As BobbleheadDoll says, many believe that but reality is that few do. He says he knows and understands the reality but probably won't until he gets there.

Money was given to pitchers, two catchers and a couple of corner infielders all of which he is not. Should people tell him he's not good enough, just give up? His father said he will not do that because this needs to be his decision. He's told him everything else and says thats all he can do.

Whatever you do, get an opinion IN WRITING!

living,

I've been reading this, very interesting.

Just so I'm clear on this though...

quote:

If he can't earn a starting role, then he will commit to getting his college degree and move on.

The kid's going to quit playing ball simply because he (a Freshman) doesn't make the team as a stater on a 'big time DI'?

I don't want to be harsh but I think the kid really needs a reality check, if this is how he's looking at it going in this fall.

I wish him the best of luck.

DOC K

It would suprise you how many quit or transfer after the frosh year because they arent getting playing time---too much of the big fish in a small pong syndrome---they think they deserve it even when every kid on the college roster was a HS Stud.


They need to learn you have to earn your stripes because they do not come with the uniform

quote:

too much of the big fish in a small pond syndrome---they think they deserve it

That's too bad.

I'm glad I was grounded when it came to that.

quote:

you have to earn your stripes because they do not come with the uniform

GREAT QUOTE!

Doc K--Sorry I didn't mean he would quit after freshman year, although many do. He said he knows many are redshirted, many sit for the first few years. He felt he would have a good idea where he stood after a few years and would decide then.

living,

Thanks for clarifying

From my understanding there will be no mid-year transfers. The year in-residence starts in September and ends in June. You must spend (1) academic year in-residence to be able to play the following year. A player who now leaves in December sits the spring season and during his in-residence year (the next year). If this occures during his freshamn fall he would be able to play during the fall of his jr year. He would still have 3 years left to play (yr 3,4,5).

This is all conjecture at this point since the meeting in August is to review the plan

This player is going to do what a lot of players will do if things don't work out, begin at D1 and transfer to JUCO, D2,D3,NAIA. You will see more talented players drafted from these programs than ever before, because of the new transfer rules.

I don't beleive in walking on, but sometimes, if the player is that determined, things might work out.

As far as playing time, last year a very good freshman player at son's school was not happy with his role, transfered to JUCO and drafted as a sophmore in the third round.

I have seen a lot of things happen in the last year that some might say is impossible.