Trick play or good baseball?

Runner has too return to base after Time called. Same as foul ball not caught

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just Me:
Runner has too return to base after Time called. Same as foul ball not caught

---

Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball, the rules and realities of the game—and do it by watching first some high-school or small-town teams.
Jacques Barzun
NY Times 31 May 81

Either its not a rule or not enforced but you don't have to go back to the base on a foul ball not caught. Most do, but several don't.

Actually, this is something that after 10 years of coaching at the high school level, I just learned last year: it is NOT a rule that a runner has to go back and "tag up" after a foul ball, or anything else. This is probably one of the most misconstrued rules in baseball that umpires would do well to make a point of emphasis some year in their rules meetings.

As for larrythompson's post, my opinion is that it was the umpire's fault for putting the ball back into play with a runner standing 10 feet from home plate! It is the umpire's job to make sure everyone is set before resuming play, and an 80 ft. lead by a runner from 3rd means that not everyone is set!

I stand corrected. I thought you had to go back before the ump resumed play.

Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball, the rules and realities of the game—and do it by watching first some high-school or small-town teams.
Jacques Barzun
NY Times 31 May 81

The suspense is killing me...What happened? Bluezebra could you be listening in? Is it legal?

http://www.highviewheat.com/index.asp

http://www.kristensfastpitchworld.com/index.asp

let me guess, you got the ball to your catcher & let him call "Play ball" -
was that other team from Ohio?

lefties? - - - they just aint right!

I am not sure about resuming play after a time out, but as for resuming play after a foul, rule 5.09(e) states "5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when_ .... (e)A foul ball is not caught; runners return. The umpire shall not put the ball in play until all runners have retouched their bases;

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/ball_in_play_5.jsp

DDD is right on this one. However, it is unbelievable that any ump would start play on this.

"There comes a time when you have to stop dreaming of the man you want to be and start being the man you have become." Bruce Springsteen

I'm not convinced the umpire got it right, but it worked out for us. Remember, we had 1 out. One of our coaches yelled to the umpire so that he was distracted and wouldn't call time back in. At the same time, our pitching coach yelled (and I have never heard him yell this before, and I know he did not have malice in mind) for our pitcher to throw a FB at the hitter. You see, even if time were called back in, and the runner moved 10' to score, we could still throw the pitch, hit the batter, and the runner would return to 3B. Then we would have a DB situation set up. When the umpire heard our pitching coach yell that, he called time and asked the managers for a meeting. He said that he would not allow the player to take such a lead because he was making a mockery of the game. The opposing manager and umpire had a beef, but after it was all said and done, the runner returned to 3B with a more sensible lead. Scored two pitches later on a wild pitch. We benefitted from this ruling, but I think the runner had no obligation to return to 3B and should have been allowed to keep his "lead".

The team was from Mississippi, and lost in the Championship game. Very well coached, and lots of terrific players.

In retrospect, if the umpire had called time back in, and then we would have yelled time out again, we would have had to remove our pitcher. Thanks for your thoughts and interest in this play.

No umpire worth a s**t would allow this travesty to continue.

If you throw at a batter with malice you should be out of the game, eh.

I like the play. I like the guts it takes. And, I like the solution (hit the batter).

cball...these were umpires chosen from various affiliations all over the country to umpire the NABF World Series 17-18 division. my experience during the 4 games we played were that the umpires were professional, hustled, and didn't have rabbit ears. c'mon, you gotta admit, this one may have stumped you if you were behind the dish?

larry,

It seems that even if you threw at the batter the runner could still "steal" home in plenty of time from 10' away. And if you instruct a kid to intentionally throw at a batter you better have some good attorneys.

I had never heard of this before...pretty slick (and I mean greasy slick). I would hope any umpire in control of the game would invoke the "not allowed because it would be making a farce of the game" provision...end of argument!

Talent Is Never Enough!

quote:

---

Originally posted by cball:
larry,

It seems that even if you threw at the batter the runner could still "steal" home in plenty of time from 10' away.

---

How long have you been around baseball?

lamber,

Piss off.

cball

Batter hit by ptich causes dead ball-- runners cannot advance unless forced by action of batter taking first base.

As for throwing at the batter it is not done with malice here--it is done to create a dead ball situation thus sending the runner back to thrid

TRhit

Trhit,
That part I know.
What batter is going to stand in there and get hit when the opposing coach is yelling at his pitcher to hit him. All he has to do is step out of the way, run scores easily if the umpire allows him to stay in vicinity of home plate.

You gotta hit him first.

Of course that's when the fight starts and the cops get called.

cball...i'd appreciate you not posting to this thread anymore if you are going to speak to the rest of us like you did to lamber. anyway, we would not be throwing at the hitter in malice. we never have, and never would. but, we would want to try and create a dead ball situation. hitting the batter is the only way to do that. by the way, did you see that my pitcher wild pitched the runner in 2 pitches later. so, you are right, he probably wouldn't have hit the batter anyway. but seriously, i think throwing at a hitter for malice is wrong, but throwing at a hitter to keep him from diving over the plate, to get a dead ball situation (like this extreme event), or some other serious baseball related issue may be warranted. again, i am not condoning throwing at hitters, i am simply saying that extreme situations sometimes call for extreme measures. and you missed the point, we yelled that out so that the umpire would hear it, and would not call time back into play...making the 10' stolen base null and void. sorry to create the controversy over hitting the batter, i thought sharing this situation might tease the old brain a little. darn them mississippi boyz!

larry,
No apology needed. I still refer to my original post that no umpire worth a "you no what" would allow the play to unfold with the runner standing 10' from the plate.

If it was legal don't you think Joe Torre or Tony LaRussa would have figured it out by now?

I also think it's almost impossible to hit a batter when he knows it's coming.

cball

If the umpire allows the runner to stay there you can count on my pitcher hitting the batter and creating a dead ball

TRhit

Maybe but he'll have to throw to a spot where he thinks the batter will be not where he is. there's too much time to bail especially when you are forwarned it's coming. Any way I think another interesting topic would be what liablity does a coach face if he instructs a pitcher to intentionally hit a batter?
If the batter is hurt don't you think the coach could be subject to criminal and civil penalty? I do, at least in the country I've been living in for that last 30 years or so.

cball

Hitting a guy without malice and not to hurt him is part of the game in a situation like this.

If you have played the game you have been drilled at least once--heck I got knocked out cold by a first baseman as I slid back into the base and I knew it was coming since our two schools hated each other and it all showed on the field. What did I do ?--just came to-- got up --dusted myself off and continued the game

You, I fear, are part of that new group of people who if they tripped and broke an ankle on the walk at their grandmothers house would sue her fot every penny they could get.

AS a coach I am open to all sorts of liability every time my teams travels to and from a game.

There are things in the game of baseball that go unsaid and are taken care of on the field. At least in my 62 years in this country that is how I have played the game--sorry if it offends you but that is the way it is--thats the game of baseball

TRhit

Cball, liability? you're on the wrong site, try ALCU.com per chance the hitters rights were violated

"Don Drysdale consided an intentional walk a waste of three pitches"

lefties? - - - they just aint right!

No fellas I do not advocate a legal action against anyone. What I am saying to any coach who tells a pitcher to intentionally throw a baseball 80+ at a batter you better be ready for the consequences. High school coaches have been sued over playing time for chrissakes.
It would not be hard in todays litigeous society to imagine a scenario where you could be ruined.

BTW I have been plunked and have plunked a few myself but I would never tell a youth pitcher to intentionally hit another kid. Ever.
I like my lifestyle too much.