triple play with a run scoring

quote:

Originally posted by Ryno23:
A line drive triple play with bases loaded, where B1 lines to 3, (3u), 3 steps on bag (3u), throws to 6 for the 3-6 put out. Should a runner legally tagging at 3rd and crossing home plate before the 3rd out was made at 2nd base count? The runners at both first and second were forced out.

I'm trying to make sense of this. Your notation is a bit odd.

Is the line drive caught? If so, that's out 1. What do you mean by "3"? F3" or 3rd base? What do you mean by 3u?.

Normal notation:

F1 = Pitcher
F = Catcher
F3 = First baseman
F4 = Second baseman
F5 = Third baseman
F6 = Shortstop
F7 = LF
F8 = CF
F9 = RF

Yes, the run scores. The last two outs actually were not force outs, they were out by "appeal." So the run counts.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Yes, the run scores. The last two outs actually were not force outs, they were out by "appeal." So the run counts.

Man...did you find a web site that translated the OP?

The notation 3-u typically means F3 unassisted, and the second out is often recorded that way. The most frequent use of 3-u is for ground balls to F3 who then steps on first. In the OP, the first out would, by most scorekeepers, be recorded as L-3 or perhaps F-3, for lineout or flyout.

So those of us who deign to read Rule 10, probably did understand the OP.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryno23:
A line drive triple play with bases loaded, where B1 lines to 3, (3u), 3 steps on bag (3u), throws to 6 for the 3-6 put out. Should a runner legally tagging at 3rd and crossing home plate before the 3rd out was made at 2nd base count? The runners at both first and second were forced out.

In regards to the question in the OP:
The runner from 3B that legally tagged would score if in the judgement of PU that he/she crossed HP before the 3rd out was made at 2B.
BTW: There is no force of the runners from 1B and 2B, the force was removed when F3 caught B1's line drive.

Bases loaded no outs.
Batter hits LD thats caught by F3, 1 out and all forces are now removed.
F3 steps on 1B, catching R1 on the obvious appeal, 2 outs.
F3 to F6 who catches R2 on the obvious appeal, 3 outs.
R3 touched HP before the 3rd out of R2, yes the run scores.

A twist for you;
R3 was off on contact, saw that the triple play was inevitable but continued and touched or passed HP as he was picking up the bat and heading to his dugout, before the 3RD out.
R3's run still score,s even if he didn't retouch or even if he missed but passed HP, unless the D appeals his leaving early or missing HP, "before" they leave fair territory.

No run;
Bases loaded batter hits one hopper to F5.
F5 steps on 3rd to force R2, 1 out.
F5 to F4 forces R1 at 2nd, 2 outs.
F4 to F3 to retire BR, 3 outs.
No run, as the 3rd out was recorded; on a force or on the BR before he reached 1B.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
The notation 3-u typically means F3 unassisted, and the second out is often recorded that way. The most frequent use of 3-u is for ground balls to F3 who then steps on first. In the OP, the first out would, by most scorekeepers, be recorded as L-3 or perhaps F-3, for lineout or flyout.

So those of us who deign to read Rule 10, probably did understand the OP.

Sorry. I'm an umpire, not a scorekeeper. It would be an umpire who, using the rules of the game, decides if the run scores, so I am accustomed to their references. The scorekeeper can then record it in Greek if he wants to.

This might seem dumb, as I've seen this play many times before, but I'd like to understand the rules so here goes:

I'm confused by 'losing the right to appeal by making a play on a runner' as described in an earlier thread. So it must be that making multiple appeals (F3 touching first, then throwing to second) is not considered 'making a play on a runner' and is just a series of appeals?

What if F3 had decided to throw home on a tag play and R3 hadn't tagged up. Does the defense lose the right to appeal that runner at 3B? How about R2 and R1 appeals?

I've seen thousands of games, but the 'losing the right to appeal by making a play on the runner' is one I've never run across. I'm more curious than anything.

In the the example where R3 doesn't tag up, the play continues as described (triple play, but run counts), I believe the defense can still appeal R3 even though the third out was recorded to remove the run, thus recording a fourth out. Is this correct?

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
This might seem dumb, as I've seen this play many times before, but I'd like to understand the rules so here goes:

I'm confused by 'losing the right to appeal by making a play on a runner' as described in an earlier thread. So it must be that making multiple appeals (F3 touching first, then throwing to second) is not considered 'making a play on a runner' and is just a series of appeals?

Yes. For purposes of that rule, an appeal is not a play.

quote:

What if F3 had decided to throw home on a tag play and R3 hadn't tagged up. Does the defense lose the right to appeal that runner at 3B? How about R2 and R1 appeals?
I've seen thousands of games, but the 'losing the right to appeal by making a play on the runner' is one I've never run across. I'm more curious than anything.

In FED and NCAA, the right to appeal is not forfeited on a play initiated by the offense.

quote:

In the the example where R3 doesn't tag up, the play continues as described (triple play, but run counts), I believe the defense can still appeal R3 even though the third out was recorded to remove the run, thus recording a fourth out. Is this correct?

Yes.

And your questions were not at all dumb.

An example of Losing the right to appeal:
R1, base hit to RF, R1 misses 2B as he digs for 3B.
A close sliding play into 3B, R1 now R3 is safe, requests and is granted time out. Upon resumption of play F1 attempts a PO of R1 or R3. Defensive coach hollers out to appeal R3 missing 2nd, too late, they have already made a play and have lost he right to appeal. As long as there is a continuation of the orginal play, the appeal is still allowable, once that play ends, the next thing to happen better be the appeal or forfeit the right. As Dash points out, HS and College will allow the appeal if the "next play" is initiated by the offense. Ex. offense knows the D is going to appeal the miss of 2B upon resumption of play, so in an attempt to create an intervening play, R1 takes off for 2B in an attempt to draw a play, the appeal would still be allowed.
In short a PO is initiated by the D, a steal is initiated by the O.

Thanks JJK, that helps...

Again, whenever you think you've seen everything in this game, you learn something new.