Truth About Colleges

In reality I think a school is as good as what the student makes of it.

Of course their are various rankings out there like the US News & World Report rankings and the Princeton Review.

CollegeBoard.com gives the range of test scores (SAT and ACT) that the middle 50% of students at their school scored. For example, the middle 50% of kids at Harvard scored 31-35 on the ACT. At Oklahoma State (to randomly pick a state school) the middle 50% scored 22-27 on the ACT.

http://collegeprowler.com/

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/

I like the 2 sites that Krakatoa listed. However, not sure how fully up to date they are.

Quick example: My son plays baseball at Longwood in VA. The Student Life section shows the school participates in DII NCAA athletics.

Longwood was granted full DI status by the NCAA for the 2007-2008 AY.

Just trying to point out that some information MAY be dated/inaccurate.

"Good" is a relative term - in the eyes of the beholder. Go log on to Princeton Review, Peterson's (both on line) or buy a Fiske's Guide, or even a US News and World Report College Ranking Guide (in your favorite book store) (although I am not fond of the US News ranking, because it's single most weighted ranking is the school's endowement - and to me this does not have anything to do with the students). Any of these will give you an idea of where the school ranks acadamically, and will also include other things like how the school runs, its social life, the types of majors most kids have, etc. etc. etc. Then take your academics and testing scores and see where you fit in with those schools, and location, and social life, etc.

PS College Confidential is really a website for the students to chat - or more correctly to WORRY about their applications, their grades, their essays, etc. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot to worry about and I think this site provides a good venting ground for them, but IMO it must be taken with a grain of salt.

academically......oops typo....

Personally I really like certain sections of collegeconfidential.com. Lots of great advice from posters that have personal knowledge of many colleges across the US. I mostly read the Parents Forum. Like this site you can ask almost any question about any college and get a plethora of info. And, like any message board, you must consider the source.

Students that post on there for "chance me" seem to often be neurotic over-achievers so those posts are best ignored.

You can go to the highest ranked college but if it's not a good fit for the student they most likely won't be happy. Do basic background research with multiple sources and then go visit often if possible.

As noted above, there are many guidebooks that offer both objective and subjective information on the quality of colleges. But I also second the recommendation of collegeconfidential.com as a wealth of information. It is probably not the place you would go to to get quick data such as admissions stats and such on colleges, but there are many different helpful sections to the website such as articles on college search, admissions, etc., many forums covering multitudes of topics, such as the parentcafe referred to above, a section on financial advice/planning, and more.

Another interesting site is Students Review. Google "students review X" with "X" being your college of choice, and you will get a range of information about that college as told by students who attend (at least that is supposed to be who is writing the posts). It will give you insight into how kids feel about each college.

I look at Student Review and find it interesting but question the value.
For example.
I checked out Harvard and some others.
The over whelming words I found at Harvard's were " I'm miserable"

ONE EXAMPLE
Ok So heres my experience. Harvard University is truely a wonderful school--an academic powerhouse teeming with boundless opportunites to take advantage of. Unfortunately after my first year at Harvard I had no choice but to transfer out. I ended up transfering to Syracuse University. Yes Harvard is a great school but the amount of snotty, rich kids that feel they must crush your ego to become at ease with themselves are just overwhleming. It seems as though Harvard is truely talented in admitting students of this characteristic. As for faculty accessibility, that's a big joke. Professors are way too full of themselves and are only into their own research. Overall, I was miserable. I felt inferior and alone.


Now as for Syracuse University, I indeed experienced the same snotty and arrogant attitude from students there as well. At Syracuse there are a lot of rich kids with parents of a high profile. But heres what sold me about Syracuse. Not only was their journalism school one of the best in the country if not THE best, but professors are there for you when you need them. Thus, you end up understanding the material you are learning better. I coulsn't believe how comparable the work load was to Harvard. It was definitely challenging for the two years I have been here already. But overall, I am truely grateful for this. It is definitely preparing me for the real world. Honestly, I have come to realize that Harvard and Syracuse aren't that different of a school. The academics are top notch, there are snobbish students at both schools, the opportunities are boundless and both schools are in the middle of horrendous cities. (coincidentally)


Please, my one advice to you is to at least have a two night stay at whatever school you are thinking of. That should be enough time to give you a feel of the school and a general gist of whether or not you woudl fit in. That way you don't have to go through the hassle of transfering.

Harvard is not for everybody and Syracuse is not for everybody. At both schools you must possess grits, thick skin, and a go-getter attitude along with hard work ethic. It's sink or swim at these schools. Education Quality: A+, Faculty Accessibility: D+ Have a Question?

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I would suggest that probably one of the biggest mistake kids and parents make when choosing a school is to pick a school based on school rankings. I know of many kids (usually the oldest in the family) who decided to go to a school because it was the highest ranked school that admitted them. Not a good idea.

My point is that while objective criteria are an important measure, ultimately it is a subjective choice and you and your student have to find out the meaning of "good school" for yourselves.

ig very astute comments.

ig is a very wise person.

To me this is one of the most important topics on this site. I was astounded by the negative comments about Harvard. I was expecting stuff like it is the greatest and unbelieveble place. Instead it was mostly about being miserable and feeling isolated and inferior .
This comment was an interesting reflection.

Yeah...needless to say, Harvard is a pretty good school. Still, it hasn't been as amazing as I hoped it would be and the academics weren't as difficult as I had thought they would/should be. It is a prestine institution, don't get me wrong, it's just not as great as I thought it would be. Like most universities, if you study, you'll pass. Harvard doesn't seem to be much different than most schools, it just has the name of names. The media makes it seem so much more prestigious than it actually is. I'm still happy to be graduating soon and being an alumni of the institution, but it's just not what I hoped for. I should have went to Georgetown... University Resource Use: A, Friendliness

I really don't take single-point data on a website as proof that Harvard isn't what it is purported to be. Someone who attended the university didn't like it and wrote it on a website. So what? Gotta be true for every university in the nation.

My advice, visit a university. Talk to the professors. Talk to the students walking by on the street. Talk to a kid who went there from your HS last year. Look at the makeup of the student body (academic qualifications, majors, geographic representation, culture, etc...) and try and figure out if that sounds like a school for you.

Don't talk to the cheerleader nor the angry guy who left as your only data point. Look at the whole. Be honest with yourself.

quote:

I look at Student Review and find it interesting but question the value.
.

I didn't suggest you don't do your due diligence. The numerous examples weren't all disgruntled students.
Princeton on the other hand was mostly positive reviews.
Like I said interesting but no conclusive evidence.

Some of my daughter's fellow athletes from her high school attend Ivies. They've said if you think being an athlete is good for being looked down on at an Ivy, try being an athlete from a public high school.

I was watching a major college baseball game with the dad of one of the players. His son played for State. I asked the dad if the U (same state/more prestigious college and baseball program) was interested. He said U was interested, but State loved him. His advice was find the right school academically and make sure the baseball program loves you, not just the player loves the program.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
I really don't take single-point data on a website as proof that Harvard isn't what it is purported to be. Someone who attended the university didn't like it and wrote it on a website. So what? Gotta be true for every university in the nation.

I am sure you are correct, and to a large degree, I am in complete agreement...

However (could you guess that was coming? )...

What I found very relevant using sites like that, was the reasons for discontentment. If you read enough, many times you will see a prevalence. This clued me into things to look for when I was there and things to discuss with Junior.

i.e. ...the weekends here started out as so much fun, big parties in the dorms, everyone having fun, but after 1 semester, all there is to do is the same thing every weekend...or, Bobbleheads example of how everyone seemed hung up on themselves. I got that at several schools, and it was apparently right as it was confirmed when we visited one.

I'm not saying believe it all, it's all perception. But when the perception is carried as a theme, well, where there's smoke, there's fire.

I did find the negative reviews much more helpful than the positive, although I suppose when looking for pitfalls, the positive is irrelevant and could have jaded me.

Do you really think that if you get into an IVY like Harvard you should not attend. Bottom line, is you have a chance for greater wealth by going to an IVY.
What are chances of playing baseball beyond single A or double A?
Get the best education and reputation contacts that will make you successful. Very hard to lose it over your lifetime.
One injury and it could be over.

The problem with getting into a school like Harvard, is that most of the other students are extreme over achievers at academics-getting good grades and acing tests. Now you get in there as an athletic admit and might be just a notch below these other students to begin with, and then add in the fact that you are playing one of the most time-demanding college sports. If the classes are graded on a curve, then you are likely to be on the wrong side of that curve.

So to me the question becomes, will you get any enjoyment out of a college experience that makes you feel you are constantly in a hole academically, and will getting lower grades at a good reputation college outweigh getting top grades at a college without Harvard's reputation.

quote:

So to me the question becomes, will you get any enjoyment out of a college experience

That is the question ?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

quote:

So to me the question becomes, will you get any enjoyment out of a college experience

That is the question ?

And your point is....?

Ok let's be honest here, if you want to play ball and have fun then go to a Jr. College. At least you have the opportunity to get drafted multiple years. This would imply that you have a shot in the game.

If you are afraid of not doing work because you grades do not match up, then the coach would not have considered you.
The admissions department does not want to see kids fail out, it makes them look bad. If you get in with the help of a sport it is because they feel you can succeed there, statics would bear this out. .
FYI Harvard has the most collegiate sports of any school in the country, 1/3 of the class are athletes.

The bottom line is, what school would you measure up to Harvard, that even comes close to its reputation . Stanford , Duke, Georgetown..etc. These are all extremely challenging academically and if you can perform there then you could perform in Harvard or another Ivy.

That being said, why not chose the place that can give the biggest bang for your buck academically and athletically . while giving you the greatest opportunity for a career outside of sports

Do really think that the only people in the Ivies are Nerd's.

If you are afraid of an academic challenge then how will master and athletic challenge.

One more thing all thoses kids that had stright A's in High School 50% are at the top of there class 50% are at the bottomof ther class in college. There is always someone bigger, stronger, faster and smarter. thats life, how you deal with it makes you better.

The bottom line is that the truth about college is what the student/athlete make of it for themselves. One shoe does not fit all

quote:

Originally posted by TKD:
FYI Harvard has the most collegiate sports of any school in the country, 1/3 of the class are athletes.

Where did you get those stats? Harvards undergrad enrollment is 6678, by your math, that would mean over 2200 intercollegiate athletes...that's not possible.

Harvard has roughly 1,100 students participating in a NCAA high 41 varsity sports. If you add another 900 that are participating in Club and JV sports you get close to the 1/3 number.

quote:

Ok let's be honest here, if you want to play ball and have fun then go to a Jr. College. At least you have the opportunity to get drafted multiple years. This would imply that you have a shot in the game.

Careful there TKD. Have you played ball in CA and gone to a JC at the same time? Classes are mostly tough. They may not be IVY level, but they transfer. I would bet money the baseball is better adn more intense at a CA JC.

Walk a mile in their shoes.

quote:

His advice was find the right school academically and make sure the baseball program loves you,

Amen, amen, amen. As my oldest son told my second son, if they don't make you a sign, don't go there. Simplistic way to put it, but true. A school and a program should want you.

And make more than one visit to your final couple of schools.

And make sure what they mean when they say they want you. They want kids to fill out the roster as well as wanting starters.