I just saw this....
http://www.barnesville.com/arc...o-press-charges.html
Really can't say much more then WOW
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I hope his players learned that, in real life, when you get in someone's face, you're liable to get your hat smacked off your head.
It amazes me that umps don't take swings more often.
It amazes me that umps don't take swings more often.
Ask me, the ump was completely out of line. I don't care what happens, a confrontation between an ump and coach should never come to blows. Terrible example for the kids!! Then the ump responds with "that's what you get boy"? Come on blue. That's horrible and totally out of line.
Antz, I don't know how you can say it's the coach's fault. Ump was the one who hit the coach. Totally uncalled for.
Antz, I don't know how you can say it's the coach's fault. Ump was the one who hit the coach. Totally uncalled for.
quote:Antz, I don't know how you can say it's the coach's fault. Ump was the one who hit the coach. Totally uncalled for.
I would wait and see if there is more to the story before throwing anyone under the bus.
If it turns out that there isn't more to it though, the ump needs to spend some time in jail.
Not really sure the lesson the players should learn is that if you don't like what someone says in the course of a game OR real life, you have the right to haul off and knock the **** out of them for saying it. That isn't exactly going to get you very far in the real world.
If it turns out that there isn't more to it though, the ump needs to spend some time in jail.
Not really sure the lesson the players should learn is that if you don't like what someone says in the course of a game OR real life, you have the right to haul off and knock the **** out of them for saying it. That isn't exactly going to get you very far in the real world.
If it is as stated, no reason whatsoever to strike anyone. His alleged statements also have no place in an umpire's mouth.
quote:If it turns out that there isn't more to it though, the ump needs to spend some time in jail.
C'mon.......really? This is no story period. I have to throw the b.s. flag on this one. No need to get the police involved. I mean, the coach and the ump should be scheduled for a grudge fight at a local venue, sell a few tickets and lets solve this thing "mano y mano". Paaaaaleeeasssssse!
quote:Originally posted by 1baseballdad:
Not really sure the lesson the players should learn is that if you don't like what someone says in the course of a game OR real life, you have the right to haul off and knock the **** out of them for saying it. That isn't exactly going to get you very far in the real world.
No, the lesson is to stay out of someone's face.
If the truth turns out to be as was reported, the umpire should immediately be suspended for at least the balance of the season and required to attend anger management classes in addition to whatever legal penalties are imposed.
It is doubtful my association would accept him back. We have had coaches get physical with umpires, but we have never had an umpire lay a hand on a coach. That is completely unacceptable behavior.
It is doubtful my association would accept him back. We have had coaches get physical with umpires, but we have never had an umpire lay a hand on a coach. That is completely unacceptable behavior.
We would never hire this guy again. It doesn't even matter what might have caused it unless he was protecting himself. This is a bad umpire and I'm sure all good umpires would agree.
It also sounded like the team might have been a bit out of control if the story is correct. Something about a hitter talking to the players in the dugout seems to lack class. Also sounds like the coach stood up for a player he should have reprimanded and went nose to nose for some reason.
Still if the reports are all correct, the Umpire lacks the neccessary control to keep doing that job.
It also sounded like the team might have been a bit out of control if the story is correct. Something about a hitter talking to the players in the dugout seems to lack class. Also sounds like the coach stood up for a player he should have reprimanded and went nose to nose for some reason.
Still if the reports are all correct, the Umpire lacks the neccessary control to keep doing that job.
I have to agree with PG. The batter probably lacked a little class with his response to his teammate, however, did it call for an ejection? The coach appeared to be protecting his player, and according to the article they were both (ump/coach) guilty of getting in to each other's face. It sounds to me like the Blue is not emotionally capable of officiating high school baseball. Once he struck the coach, all bets were off...and he should be fired, especially if he followed it up with "that's what you get boy!".
quote:Originally posted by bsbl247:
I have to agree with PG. The batter probably lacked a little class with his response to his teammate, however, did it call for an ejection?
If he said it loud enough for the fans to hear, yep. He's gone.
That said, as I posted earlier, the umpire should face legal charges and be suspended...for a long time.
I would expect every good umpire to say exactly what you are saying Jimmy. Nothing ticks off a good umpire as much as an umpire acting in a manner like this. All this proves is no profession is excluded from having some bad apples.
we would have a zero tolerance for any umpire who struck a coach.....like jimmy, I do not think any of my associations would ever allow this umpire to work again...
In our training programs, we have clear and defined course for dealing with difficult situations with the ultimate goal of being professional in all interactions....
there are some people who just dont belong in umpiring....
In our training programs, we have clear and defined course for dealing with difficult situations with the ultimate goal of being professional in all interactions....
there are some people who just dont belong in umpiring....
quote:Originally posted by PA Dino:quote:If it turns out that there isn't more to it though, the ump needs to spend some time in jail.
C'mon.......really? This is no story period. I have to throw the b.s. flag on this one. No need to get the police involved. I mean, the coach and the ump should be scheduled for a grudge fight at a local venue, sell a few tickets and lets solve this thing "mano y mano". Paaaaaleeeasssssse!
Would it have been a story if the ump hit the player? Would that have been ok?
Only in Georgia 
The kid should have kept his mouth shut. No need to say something stupid like that.
Ump never should have laid a hand on the coach nor said what he supposedly said.
I want to know what went on during the whole game. Doesn't excuse what happened but why did the kid say what he said? What was said initially between the ump and coach before going nose to nose?
There's a whole lot more to this story than what we've got but still doesn't excuse what went on.
Ump never should have laid a hand on the coach nor said what he supposedly said.
I want to know what went on during the whole game. Doesn't excuse what happened but why did the kid say what he said? What was said initially between the ump and coach before going nose to nose?
There's a whole lot more to this story than what we've got but still doesn't excuse what went on.
I wasn't there. So I don't know the entire progression of events, and what actually happened leading up to the final result. Here's what I do know..
REGARDLESS of how "bad" the PU might have been, IF the players in the dugout made comments to the batter "Not to swing at balls" and the hitter AT THE PLATE responded with "He'll call it a strike anyway."
If I was the Ump I would have AT THE VERY LEAST warned the kid and warned the Coach. More than likely this wasn't the first comment. So more than likely I would have ejected the kid too.
You can tell that article was written by someone who knows or is familiar with this Coach and his program.
"...Williams remained relatively calm while the Umpire yelled at him.."
What does "relatively" mean? Really?
Was the Umpire justified in physically touching the Coach? No.
I coach.
If the batter had been on my team I would have called time at the moment of the comment (If I heard it) and dealt with it right there. If stuff like this had been going on beforehand, it would have been addressed.
Umps make bad calls. It happens. Umps can be stubborn and hardheaded...they are people.
But I've been seeing an alarming trend of players being able to blame the umpires for bad calls etc and it's starting to seem like an excuse.
An Umpire cannot blow a couple of calls and cost you a game. You can always go back and say "Well if we had done this or that, those calls wouldn't have mattered.."
I tell my players that all the time. I tell them they will see Umps make bad calls, but it's MY job as the COACH to deal with it, and if they try to deal with it on their OWN, I will DEAL WITH THEM. Their job is to play. Simple as that.
REGARDLESS of how "bad" the PU might have been, IF the players in the dugout made comments to the batter "Not to swing at balls" and the hitter AT THE PLATE responded with "He'll call it a strike anyway."
If I was the Ump I would have AT THE VERY LEAST warned the kid and warned the Coach. More than likely this wasn't the first comment. So more than likely I would have ejected the kid too.
You can tell that article was written by someone who knows or is familiar with this Coach and his program.
"...Williams remained relatively calm while the Umpire yelled at him.."
What does "relatively" mean? Really?
Was the Umpire justified in physically touching the Coach? No.
I coach.
If the batter had been on my team I would have called time at the moment of the comment (If I heard it) and dealt with it right there. If stuff like this had been going on beforehand, it would have been addressed.
Umps make bad calls. It happens. Umps can be stubborn and hardheaded...they are people.
But I've been seeing an alarming trend of players being able to blame the umpires for bad calls etc and it's starting to seem like an excuse.
An Umpire cannot blow a couple of calls and cost you a game. You can always go back and say "Well if we had done this or that, those calls wouldn't have mattered.."
I tell my players that all the time. I tell them they will see Umps make bad calls, but it's MY job as the COACH to deal with it, and if they try to deal with it on their OWN, I will DEAL WITH THEM. Their job is to play. Simple as that.
When the player made the comment he made he should have been ejected. The coach should have dealt with the player instead of the umpire. When he approached the umpire and got in his face he was basically defending the players actions towards the umpire. Thats simply wrong. You never allow your players to disrespect the umpire. And you never defend them for doing that as well.
The umpire was simply wrong for doing what he did. Thats pretty obvious. The coach was wrong for defending his players actions. The player was wrong for his comments. The players in the dugout that rushed the field were wrong for leaving the dug out. So in this case everyone was wrong.
The coach could have dealt with his player, told his dug out to shut up and got back in the 3rd base coaching box. The umpire could have simply ejected the coach when he got in his face. No winners here for sure. Hopefully some lessons learned.
The umpire was simply wrong for doing what he did. Thats pretty obvious. The coach was wrong for defending his players actions. The player was wrong for his comments. The players in the dugout that rushed the field were wrong for leaving the dug out. So in this case everyone was wrong.
The coach could have dealt with his player, told his dug out to shut up and got back in the 3rd base coaching box. The umpire could have simply ejected the coach when he got in his face. No winners here for sure. Hopefully some lessons learned.
I got a feeling in the very near future this incident will be used in umpire trainings and the rules meetings coaches have to attend as what not to do for all parties involved.
Go back to the story link.....then scroll down to the comments from people, then players parents, even ones involved.
Its sad that everyone has an opinion and have to voice it especially when all the facts are not given. It looks like the umpire did the right thing in ejecting the player. (no player should disrespect umpire/coach/parent) even if its in the heat of a game, if they want to complain about balls/strikes, strike zone, plays that should be done only by the coach. I also think the umpire should hold his self in check and just explain to the coach why he tossed the player. I wasn't there and don't know if the coach said anything to set him off and caused the double ejection and the following events after. JMO!
Its sad that everyone has an opinion and have to voice it especially when all the facts are not given. It looks like the umpire did the right thing in ejecting the player. (no player should disrespect umpire/coach/parent) even if its in the heat of a game, if they want to complain about balls/strikes, strike zone, plays that should be done only by the coach. I also think the umpire should hold his self in check and just explain to the coach why he tossed the player. I wasn't there and don't know if the coach said anything to set him off and caused the double ejection and the following events after. JMO!
quote:Originally posted by Out in LF:
Its sad that everyone has an opinion and have to voice it especially when all the facts are not given.
Why? It is implied in all of our opinions, being that none of us were there, that we are using the facts as written. If we were to reserve opinion until all the facts were known, we could not have any discussions at all on any topic, since we will never have all the facts on anything.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I got a feeling in the very near future this incident will be used in umpire trainings and the rules meetings coaches have to attend as what not to do for all parties involved.
I can guarantee it.....
There should be some type of 'halo rule'.
One of the first unwritten rules I was taught as a young umpire was..."dont get your name in the paper".....
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:quote:Originally posted by Out in LF:
Its sad that everyone has an opinion and have to voice it especially when all the facts are not given.
Why? It is implied in all of our opinions, being that none of us were there, that we are using the facts as written. If we were to reserve opinion until all the facts were known, we could not have any discussions at all on any topic, since we will never have all the facts on anything.
I didn't make the statement in regards to our discussion, it was meant towards the comments that people were making on the stories original page site. Go back to the original link and scroll down as I said before and read the comments that people were making towards the umpire, the kid at the plate without regard to who or whom they are bashing not knowing any facts! Don't try to read between the lines.....just read then make your opinions.
quote:One of the first unwritten rules I was taught as a young umpire was..."dont get your name in the paper".....
It's too bad Major League umpires don't take that advice.. they are more than happy to be the star of the show..
In this case, it appears only one person was out of line. The coach and players may have been wrong, but the umpire was flat-out out of line. There are simple penalties for the coach and players within the game of baseball. For the umpire, not so much. He should be banned from umpiring, officiating, etc. There is no reason whatsoever to put your hands on somebody on the baseball field.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
It's too bad Major League umpires don't take that advice.. they are more than happy to be the star of the show..
It's not a coincidence that this "incident" occurred in the bottom of the 7th inning. We've all attended games where the umpire gets attacked verbally all game long, sometimes he doesn't have the consistency we'd like, sometimes it's just a sporting event to criticize the ump. But the batter's comment evidently was the last straw. Also evident is that the teams are bitter rivals and like many high school baseball crowds this time of year, they don't use their common sense and put the game in the right perspective.
The umpire tossed a match on the stack of wood that had been soaking in gasoline for six and a half innings. The head coach doused it with more gas by getting in the umpires face, "nose to nose." Both had choices and both took the wrong road at the fork. What followed is hardly worth the effort to investigate from a law enforcement perspective. This can all be handled in house with the umpire's association, the athletic association and the schools. The umpire needs to hang up his craft and maybe take up fly tying, something solitary for awhile. The head coach needs to have learned something about venue. The local bar or softball game might have been a better place and time to go nose to nose with someone you despise, at least then you could finish the business and legitimately have law enforcement involved.
The article states that the coach was going to "press charges." I have to laugh. It's not your option to "press charges." Someone is going to investigate it and if it is worthy of prosecution then somebody will serve a subpoena on you and you will testify as a victim. This case barely merits mention on a one page report and should be followed up by each kid going to his room for timeout.
I'd suggest they meet at the local county fair for a boxing match, sell some tickets and fund raise a bunch of money for both high school programs. Now wouldn't you pay to see which one is really the tough guy?
The umpire tossed a match on the stack of wood that had been soaking in gasoline for six and a half innings. The head coach doused it with more gas by getting in the umpires face, "nose to nose." Both had choices and both took the wrong road at the fork. What followed is hardly worth the effort to investigate from a law enforcement perspective. This can all be handled in house with the umpire's association, the athletic association and the schools. The umpire needs to hang up his craft and maybe take up fly tying, something solitary for awhile. The head coach needs to have learned something about venue. The local bar or softball game might have been a better place and time to go nose to nose with someone you despise, at least then you could finish the business and legitimately have law enforcement involved.
The article states that the coach was going to "press charges." I have to laugh. It's not your option to "press charges." Someone is going to investigate it and if it is worthy of prosecution then somebody will serve a subpoena on you and you will testify as a victim. This case barely merits mention on a one page report and should be followed up by each kid going to his room for timeout.
I'd suggest they meet at the local county fair for a boxing match, sell some tickets and fund raise a bunch of money for both high school programs. Now wouldn't you pay to see which one is really the tough guy?
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:quote:One of the first unwritten rules I was taught as a young umpire was..."dont get your name in the paper".....
It's too bad Major League umpires don't take that advice.. they are more than happy to be the star of the show..
In this case, it appears only one person was out of line. The coach and players may have been wrong, but the umpire was flat-out out of line. There are simple penalties for the coach and players within the game of baseball. For the umpire, not so much. He should be banned from umpiring, officiating, etc. There is no reason whatsoever to put your hands on somebody on the baseball field.
They are not.
I doubt that the vast majority of us can name more than six big league umpires right now. The ones that get the most recognition are the ones that have done yeoman's service in relative obscurity. The ones that have short term interest are more for notoriety which is not the same as being the star.
As for this ump, he is in the notoriety category and will be forgotten about in less than two weeks. What he did will not be forgotten but no one will remember his name. That is not being a star.
What a mess! I might have a little different perspective on this, as I both coach and umpire. I've coached summer baseball for many years, and have been umpiring (mostly high school ball) for 3 years. One thing I've developed over the last 3 years of umpiring is a greater appreciation for good umpires, and less tolerance for bad umpires. I've also done the same with coaches, and don't have a lot of patience with lousy coaches. I think Coach May pretty much nailed it with his comments about how everyone was in the wrong with this one. Players have no place in making comments that can be heard by everyone, and coaches need to act calmly when dealing with umpires. Umpires, at all times, need to act professionally no matter how poorly everyone else is conducting themselves.
I was faced with a somewhat similar situation last Wednesday during the championship game of a sub-varsity level Easter tournament. I was working the game as a single umpire, and one of the two teams had quite a bit to say while the other team just played baseball. The biggest problem, as I see it looking back, was that I gave the coaches on the offending team some rope instead of putting a stop to their comments as soon as it happened. The coaches for the team that kept arguing were complaining about every close call, and in a 1-man game close calls are sometimes tough to get right since you're making them from well over 100' away sometimes, as well as a couple batters I made stay in the box for not trying to avoid being hit by a pitch (this is an NFHS rule eveyrwhere). The straw that broke the camel's back in my case came after the game ended, with the team that was complaining winning by 8 or 9 runs. As I bent down to pick up my water bottle, one of the assistant coaches for the team that was mouthing off came right up to me and was standing over me while I was bent down. As I stood up, I nearly made contact with him, he was that close. I instructed the coach to step back and as he did he immediately began asking for names and phone numbers of our 'head umpire', as he put it. Now this guy was big, like 6'5" and probably 280 pounds or so, and he was clearly trying to intimidate me. When I refused to give the coach some information he was NOT entitled to, like my personal phone number, he yelled "You suck!", to which I simply replied, "And you are gone", motioning that he was ejected. His head coach immediately came up, demanding to know why I'd ejected one of his assistants after the game ended, and I explained it to the coach. The head coach wasn't happy, but he understood the reason and accepted it without much complaint. Unfortunately, the assistant coach wasn't as reasonable and followed me off the field, yelling at my the enire time. Finally, the coach for the school that was hosting the tournament came between us and told me I could leave the he'd deal with the coach to let me depart without further interference.
In the above scenario, what did I do wrong? Simply put, I allowed the situation to fester for too long, in an effort to not dump a coach who I realized was reacting in the heat of competition. I should have warned all the coaches long before the after game incident happened, and I probably could have avoided the confrontation at the end. Sometimes, a little preventive measures earlier than they might be necessary can avoid big confrontations later on. Lesson learned. I'd never let it get to the point that this idiot of an umpire did in the original post.
I was faced with a somewhat similar situation last Wednesday during the championship game of a sub-varsity level Easter tournament. I was working the game as a single umpire, and one of the two teams had quite a bit to say while the other team just played baseball. The biggest problem, as I see it looking back, was that I gave the coaches on the offending team some rope instead of putting a stop to their comments as soon as it happened. The coaches for the team that kept arguing were complaining about every close call, and in a 1-man game close calls are sometimes tough to get right since you're making them from well over 100' away sometimes, as well as a couple batters I made stay in the box for not trying to avoid being hit by a pitch (this is an NFHS rule eveyrwhere). The straw that broke the camel's back in my case came after the game ended, with the team that was complaining winning by 8 or 9 runs. As I bent down to pick up my water bottle, one of the assistant coaches for the team that was mouthing off came right up to me and was standing over me while I was bent down. As I stood up, I nearly made contact with him, he was that close. I instructed the coach to step back and as he did he immediately began asking for names and phone numbers of our 'head umpire', as he put it. Now this guy was big, like 6'5" and probably 280 pounds or so, and he was clearly trying to intimidate me. When I refused to give the coach some information he was NOT entitled to, like my personal phone number, he yelled "You suck!", to which I simply replied, "And you are gone", motioning that he was ejected. His head coach immediately came up, demanding to know why I'd ejected one of his assistants after the game ended, and I explained it to the coach. The head coach wasn't happy, but he understood the reason and accepted it without much complaint. Unfortunately, the assistant coach wasn't as reasonable and followed me off the field, yelling at my the enire time. Finally, the coach for the school that was hosting the tournament came between us and told me I could leave the he'd deal with the coach to let me depart without further interference.
In the above scenario, what did I do wrong? Simply put, I allowed the situation to fester for too long, in an effort to not dump a coach who I realized was reacting in the heat of competition. I should have warned all the coaches long before the after game incident happened, and I probably could have avoided the confrontation at the end. Sometimes, a little preventive measures earlier than they might be necessary can avoid big confrontations later on. Lesson learned. I'd never let it get to the point that this idiot of an umpire did in the original post.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Still if the reports are all correct, the Umpire lacks the neccessary control to keep doing that job.
Agreed
Short of defending himself, an ump should never hit a player, coach, fan, etc.