umping little kids... balk help

I would like to answer your question but I'm a little confused. If you are working with 4th-8th grade kids then most of them are little league age. There are no balks in little league. The runners can't leave the base until the pitch reaches the batter. If you are saying that you are Umpiring in a league that uses Official Baseball Rules or Federation (High School rules) for kids who are 9-12 years old then someone needs to have their head examined. Please provide a bit more info regarding this league.

I need to add something here. When I mentioned Official Baseball Rules or Federation Rules I meant with regards to pitching regulations.

Normally kids don't start to use proper pitching mechanics with regards to balks until they're 13 years old. Even then most of them do it wrong much more often than they do it right. Kids younger than that are usually playing Little League or Cal Ripken ball and those mechanics aren't necessary. If someone is trying to teach younger kids how to stay within the rules regarding wind-up vs set positions, holding runners on base to minimize their leads, pick offs etc. they're going to do far more harm than good. Kids at that young age can't possibly keep that much in their heads and still pitch. They will balk virtually every time they step on the rubber. I just can't think of any good reason for 9-12 year olds playing in a league like this.

The league is called "kid Sports" you can look it up, im not at my home computer where i have it book marked. usually, the rules are such as no leading off till 7th grade, etc... but now they are incorporating practically all rules... we use JBO rules (highschool rules)

this is the first year they are doing it, and it is really rediculous and puts us umpires in BAD situations...

and trust me i am not wrong with my rules, as far as rules for the league, i umpired over 20 games before leaving on vacation, and being done for the season... this is my 4th year workin as an umpire.

ill look for the website tomorow....

and i agree 100% it is horrible to make 4th graders play the same rules as 9-12th graders... but what am i gonna do its a job i enjoy doing and the pay is decent (although seems to be declining every year....

OK xFLOPx here we go:

I did some research on your Kid Sports league.
JBO (Junior Baseball of Oregon) does use the National Federation of High School rules as its base. Modifications relative to base distances and pitching distances are made to accomodate different age and skill levels. Sadly, the league also uses the NFHS pitching regulations for all age levels. The Web site states that this better prepares the kids for their eventual move into high school baseball and makes for a more exciting game with leading and base stealing. As far as the young kids go, I couldn't disagree more.

You stated in your original post that the kids just run when the coach says "now". The reason is that the baserunners don't understand the pitching regulations any more than the pitchers do. The coach probably knows that if the pitcher is using the wind-up position, (vs the set position) any movement of his arms or legs normally associated with his wind-up commits him to deliver the pitch to the batter. Anything else the pitcher does (hesitates, turns to throw to a base, etc) is a balk. As soon as the pitcher starts his wind-up the coach says "go" or "now". Easy stolen base or a balk.

It is truly ridiculous that the organizers of this league believe they are helping 9-12 year old kids to prepare for future high school competition or are making for more exciting baseball by forcing them to learn pitching regulations at such an early age. As an umpire I have seen many high school kids who can't get it right. And it's not because they weren't taught when they were 9-12 years old. It is due to the fact that there is a lot of info there for a kid to process to stay within the regulations. Add to that the game situation, parents cheering for (or yelling at) the kids and coaches trying to give instructions during play and you must have something that looks like anything but exciting baseball.

I apologize for my rambling on about this but I have very strong feelings for the game of baseball and kids. How does a 10 year old feel when he's called for a balk that allows the game winning run to score from 3rd base and he doesn't even understand what he did wrong? Will the parents and coaches be sympathetic when this happens and say: "Well, he's just learning"? Hopefully they will. More likely they'll be saying: "Bobby screwed up again and cost us the game." This poor kid's head is going to be a mess to the point that he won't ever want to pitch again or maybe not want to play at all due to the embarrassment.

In closing, to answer your original question:
Under NFHS rules: If there are runners on base and the pitcher positions himself within 5 feet of the pitching rubber without the ball it is a balk.

Ive trained a lot of youth league umpires and balks can be a tricky thing. Mainly because as you said, at the lower levels, the pitchers can be called for a balk on almost every pitch.... If you call every one of them, you will have 3 hour "no fun" games for the players and coaches all over your back.....

IN our local youth leagues balks are intoduced in the 11-12 year old age group. Any earlier, and you have a hard time getting the concept across to the players and coaches......

I was trained a long time ago by an old SAL league umpire who gave me this adage for calling balks....

Call 100% of the balks that everyone sees, call most of the balks that Baseball people (coaches, players and judged by intent to decieve) see and none of the balks only you see.......

There is nothing wrong at the lower levels to bring this up in the pregame meeting with the coaches and let them know that although balks will be called, that you will be calling only those flagrant balks......

You should not consider yourself a bad umpire for overlooking some balks....If an 8 year old runner is standing on the bag, looking at his mom in the stands and the pitcher double sets.........where is the intent to deceive?.......the runner was going nowhere and the pitcher does not even know what he did was wrong......let it go.... and mention it to his coach at the half innning.

Do not stop the game and teach. We are to umpire, let the coach teach....if asked, then give some clarification on the balk rule in question.

Dont let this bother you, your are in control of the game......just add this into your game management skills.... If you get a coach complaining about you not calling those balks, remind him that you could call "BOTH" pitchers for balks on just about every play......and it would be true......

quote:

Originally posted by pilsner:
I would like to answer your question but I'm a little confused. If you are working with 4th-8th grade kids then most of them are little league age. There are no balks in little league. The runners can't leave the base until the pitch reaches the batter. If you are saying that you are Umpiring in a league that uses Official Baseball Rules or Federation (High School rules) for kids who are 9-12 years old then someone needs to have their head examined. Please provide a bit more info regarding this league.

Not every area of the country plays Little League. Little league groups the ages 9-12 with a 46 foot mound and 60 foot bases with no leading off. Every pitch is from the windup and there isn't any balks so there isn't any leads.

Our area played Pony League ball. Under Pony League, the Mustang division (9-10) plays 60' bases, Mound distance is 44 feet and has leading off and balks ... only the most obvious are called.

In the Bronco division, the pitching distance is back to 48 feet and the basepaths are 70 feet. The balk rules are enforced a bit more.

In the Pony division (13-14), it's 80 foot bases and a 54' pitching distance. Balks are fairly close to HS by then.

Colt division (15-16) is HS size and rules.

I've seen a lot of kids coming out of little league that just don't know how to run bases very well. I feel Pony teaches more of the game at a younger age (and the kids like it too).

well i think i know the reason why they are inducing leading off at younger ages now... it is because there are 2 leagues in the city, one is babe Ruth (an alstar style league involving cuts and such) and the Kid Sports league, no cuts, everyone makes the team. Babe ruth plays on nicer fields, along with travels, nicer gear, etc.... also play JBO rules... i think they are trying to give the kids better reasons to play kid sports instead of babe ruth however now that i think about it, i dont think they leadoff in the 4th grade Baberuth games....

also, 4th grade fields are 60 foot bases... all year long, i NEVER NEVER saw a catcher actaully gun out a stealing base runner... there was ONE close play all year, but the second basemen who got the throw didnt tag the runner, he thought it was a force out i guess.

Thanks for all the help guys...