Umpire-Catcher Relationship

That is a very class move to shake the umpire's hand at the start and end of the game. My son does it too. I think the umpires who are experienced appreciate knowing that the catcher is a "professional" and is going to keep the umpire out of harms way. If the umpire has a bad attitude, perhaps he will change that attitude when he gets nailed after a failure to block or catch by a catcher who is not so quick!
Your son is on a good path - baseball or no. There are surprisingly few young men who can introduce themselves confidently, especially to an authourity.
There is another thread about attitude here recently, and I sometimes wonder about the catchers who go up to bat, get called on a third strike and stand there and glare at the umpire or worse yet give him lip! Don't they realize that the umpires can tell who will be out the next half of the inning depsite the gear!?????

The umpire-catcher relationship is one of the many nuances about baseball that casual fans don't know about, but that make the game so fascinating.

I can't yet speak to how it manifests itself in levels above high school, but I can say that in HS, more than a few close games are won and lost on this factor alone.

My son is now a senior. As a freshman he started every third game, and since then has been the team's only catcher. So every umpire in our league knows him very well. He has always shaken their hands before the game - but doesn't every catcher? I thought that was pretty much routine.

Anyway, from my experience, a respecting and trustful relationship between catcher and ump is built on lots of little things. Not just protecting the guy, but things like calling a timeout for a chat at the mound after the ump takes a foul off the mask. Not pulling the ball into the zone. Not holding the "stick" position for more than a beat. Backing the ump up when the coach asks "where was that pitch" from the dugout.

My son chats the umps up pretty good during the games, commenting on all sorts of things. They often share chuckles about one thing or another.

I am CONVINCED that because of all this, my son gets better calls when he is at bat. If the ump respects the catcher and knows he respects the game and the strikezone, when that marginal strike on 2-2 comes in, more often than not the ump gives my son the benefit of the doubt. I have seen this time and time again.

As I say, I have no idea to what extent this happens at the college level. But I am sure that having a good relationship with the ump is a good idea no matter the level.

I always introduce myself to the catchers at the beginning of the game, if a cather introduces himself to me thats a plus....

I have a set pattern with my introduction and it goes something like this...(with both catchers)

I will introduce myself and offer to shake hands...I tell them my job is to call strikes and his is to give me a good look at them...together we will call a good game...I will then ask him about his pitcher that day...good stuff, nasty curve, occasional knuckleball etc....I crouch down behind him for the last few warmups and always end with a "good throw" on his throw down...

I see any gesture from a catcher as an understanding of the working relationship that a good catcher has with his umpire and "with and for" his pitcher...

I recently called out on a 3rd stike a very good college bound catcher....at the change of the inning he said to me, I should have swung at that pitch, thats one I would want called a strike for my pitcher...

he gets "it"...

quote:

Originally posted by mikamom:
..... I sometimes wonder about the catchers who go up to bat, get called on a third strike and stand there and glare at the umpire or worse yet give him lip! Don't they realize that the umpires can tell who will be out the next half of the inning depsite the gear!?????

Mikamom, you should know better than to lump all umpires together.
I'm not saying it doesnt happen, umpires who look for this type of "payback" embarrass the rest of us, but I gotta believe it doesnt happen often. Just deal with the batter in the appropriate way and move on. Retaliation by the official just makes himself look bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:

I am CONVINCED that because of all this, my son gets better calls when he is at bat. If the ump respects the catcher and knows he respects the game and the strikezone, when that marginal strike on 2-2 comes in, more often than not the ump gives my son the benefit of the doubt. I have seen this time and time again.

I work both the Varsity Level and multiple college levels. I do not cheat for my catchers.

I shake hands and introduce myself and I tell them how it works: Their reward for doing their job well is that I get to do my job well. That's all a good catcher wants.

34 will introduce himself to the umpire at the beginning of the game and shake his hand. Most of the umps he runs across in travel ball and tournaments seem to appreciate it. Occasionally he gets a cold shoulder, but he figures those umpires want to be make sure they appear fair and impartial. He works hard to have a good rapport with the umps during the game.

34 is 13 and has been catching for about 2 years.

Nothing pleases me more than a catcher who smothers balls in the dirt with no one on. If he takes a shot, I will kick dirt on the plate and take my time cleaning it off to give him a break. But when he looks at that borderline pitch, he's getting rung up just like everyone else.

I dont doubt for one second that you guys call balls and strikes on catchers the same way you do on every other batter.

But I would venture that the umpires that post on this board are not selected at random from the general population of umpires.

I am not saying anyone here cheats and I apologize if any umpires took my comments that way. I do think that it is important for young ballplayers to show respect to the umpire,catcher or not, and not be giving lip, looks or throwing equipment. That was the point of my comments.
I don't think it is cheating to have a catcher try to make his team and his pitcher look good - that to me is part of the game. Jimmy - your comment here is a good one. And I agree that a fair game is all anyone involved wants.
My hats off to all umpires who can stand there behind a kid and look at 80 - 90 mile per hour pitches coming at them for three hours at a time.
I wonder how many umpires were catchers once themselves?!
dash - good comment - we have run across a few guys who will do that for thier catchers. More need to do this.

I think you will find a large majority of umpires were catchers at some point in their carreers. I was not, centerfielder, but I am an exception.

yup guilty....as charged.....all my life I have had one game but 2 positions...one catching the other calling

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
I think you will find a large majority of umpires were catchers at some point in their carreers. I was not, centerfielder, but I am an exception.

Left handed and couldn't throw from the outfield...first baseman, naturally, HS and college.

Played third base in threee games when the coach decided he needed a glove on the line. Didn't turn out all that bad. I think the complaint about the extra time it takes a lefty to set to throw to second and first is exaggerated. I nailed runners at both.

I'm also lefty (played OF in college). Learning to take the mask off with my left hand was a piece of cake. Developing a decent looking punch-out for whackers on the bases took years.

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:
Developing a decent looking punch-out for whackers on the bases took years.

Same here. And, at Jim Evans suggestion, I switched to a left handed ejection when a big toss was called for.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by dash_riprock:
Developing a decent looking punch-out for whackers on the bases took years.

Same here. And, at Jim Evans suggestion, I switched to a left handed ejection when a big toss was called for.

I have always done that with my left hand. It's as close to Kenny Kaiser as I'll ever get. I'm glad to hear Jim approves of the lefty dump.

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
yup guilty....as charged.....all my life I have had one game but 2 positions...one catching the other calling

Same here. There are no better positions on the field in my opinion.

Funny this thread came up now. I take a lot of pride in protecting the ump, and very often get complimented from them after the game.

Yesterday I caught both ends of a DH and my pitchers threw a ton of balls in the dirt. The first umpire really appreciated it and noted the hard work, which always makes the catchers feel good. The second ump, who had a decent thrower on the mound, never said anything to me. And this pitcher threw a number of fastballs in the dirt with nobody on, and I blocked all of them. Curveballs aren't a question. But in the last inning a fastball got under me and I don't know where it caught him, but the next better got 4 straight balls called. 2 were right there and the other 2 were calls he was giving all day. I got very p i s s e d at him because I've got a nice bruise on my arm to show I'm working all day for him and it was so unproffesional the way he handled it from there on.

quote:

Originally posted by Catch43:
Funny this thread came up now. I take a lot of pride in protecting the ump, and very often get complimented from them after the game.


But in the last inning a fastball got under me and I don't know where it caught him, but the next better got 4 straight balls called. 2 were right there and the other 2 were calls he was giving all day. I got very p i s s e d at him because I've got a nice bruise on my arm to show I'm working all day for him and it was so unproffesional the way he handled it from there on.

trust me we do appreciate it......and depending on where the umpire got hit, you might have given him some time to shake it off... I always do so for my catchers..... ask for time.....go out and talk to the pitcher.....if you take a hit, Im going to sweep the plate....check the ball, throw in a new one....so you can get your wheels back underneath you....

more than once I've had a "hit" that made my eyes water......and it took a few pitches to wear off.....dont assume he was sticking it to you....

just my .02

Sometimes you can take a hit that will either break your concentration or it will cause you to have happy feet. As PIAA says, if you think the PU took a good shot, go talk to the pitcher and give him some time. Most umps that get it will give you the same courtesy. And we do appreciate a hard working catcher.

I have found that very few catcher's truly understand how much of an impact they can have on an umpire. While it is very rare for a catcher to be able to steal a strike when working with a quality umpire it is very easy to give strikes away if borderline pitches are mishandled.

What gets me is kids who catch the ball and then move their glove 6 inches to the middle of the plate. They think they are somehow helping, but in reality they have just announced to both coaches that they didn't think the pitch was a strike where they caught it.

another example of not getting it is when a catcher with a lefty at bat catches the borderline bottom outside pitch really close to his body where it is impossible for any umpire to see instead of catching it out in front of his body.

Those are both pitches that are strikes if well handled and are almost certainly not strikes when poorly handled.

It seems that many coaches either fail to understand this too or are simply unable to teach the proper method to their catchers.

I would like umpires' opinion on this umpire-catcher incident involving my son last weekend. My son has been catching at Junior/Senior league for three years. My son will flip his helmet off quickly on a passed ball or wild pitch. (He's been instructed by high school coaches.) The umpire warned him not to do that, because it might hit the umpire. Being a habit, he continued to remove his helmet in that fashioned. The umpire had him removed from the catching position mid-way through the game. I'm quite sure there is no rule relating to this specifically. As a non-coaching parent this year, I left the questions to the coaches. I think the game should have been protested, though. My son has never had any incidents like this before regarding his catching, so I would like your opinion on this. I like the idea of having him introduce himself to the umpire at the start of the game. I'll tell him to start doing that.

I'm not familiar with the term "junior/senior leagues", but I assume that means youth ball.

I see two possible issues: One, while he might have been instucted to flip his helmet off quickly, he might not have been trained to do so without hitting the umpire or batter; or two, you may be dealing with an inexperienced umpire or one who is at least unfamiliar working with higher level catchers.

I think his coaches are wrong to teach him to take his helmet off.

quote:

I think his coaches are wrong to teach him to take his helmet off.

I agree. You need to do it when catching a pop to the catcher, but not any other time.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
I think his coaches are wrong to teach him to take his helmet off.

Three of the local varsity coaches here were minor league catchers. They all teach this.

To take the helmet off or leave it on? If to take it off, why do they do that?

The umpire misapplies a rule. There doesn't seem to be any malicious intent and in fact many coaches do teach to remove the helmet.I don't thing this is a protestable offensive just a poorly trained umpire, beside he's wearing about $200 - $300 worth of gear to protect him from speeding hard baseballs, what's a catcher helmet bouncing off him going to do?

I'm interested to know why you think removing the helmet is wrong. While the hockey style helmet have a more open eye area, there are still limitations to vision with it on. If you watch any MLB NCAA or NFHS upper level game the proper mechanic is to remove the mask/helmet and tools it away from the play so both hands are free to field the ball.

There is a high school rule prohibiting a runner from intentionally removing his batting helmet during a live ball, but nothing about catchers getting rid of the mask/helmet.  Maybe that is what is confusing this umpire.

The umpire may not appreciate getting a helmet on the toes but there is no reason for him to complain or have a player removed. As to a catcher removing his helmet, most are taught to leave it on because it takes too long and screws up your vision. Many take too long to get it off, so you lose sight of the ball. Then many either turn or lift their head to get it off, that further obscures their vision of the ball. There is also a segment that seem to think they have to be still while they take it off. 

It drives my crazy in youth sports when umpires do things like try to have players removed because they don't like the way they play a position. Way out of our scope.