Under Armour All America Myth

Welcome, JerseyCoach.

How do you describe an All-American?

To me an All-American would be the best of the best, a select few. It is a term that is earned not bought. I think that was the biggest complaint about the UA title. You could be an All-American simply by playing (and paying) for BaseballFactory or whoever was the organizer.

Your name implies that you are a coach in New Jersey. You might be. Or maybe not. Since I try to see things in a positive light, I'll go along with the thought that you are what your name implies.

Experience has shown me that the title Under-Armour Pre-Season All_American does not include the top players. Rather it is a purchased title that is not necessarily bestowed on the best of the best. To me, that is misleading and therefore illegitimate.

It sounds like your son got a lot of benefits from his participation with the event. That's great. But, I can't help wondering why they had to call it All-American when the participants know full well that it's not. It's a catchy name but the tournament is not what it implies.

JerseyCoach,

Also, just wondering, you wouldn't happen to be related to the late Frank Martin, would you? This topic seemed to be a crusade of his.


(I just noticed that my 500th post FWIW is something I actually know a little about and is a hot button for me.)

Congrats on #500 and thank you for the welcome. Obviously, the term "All-America" is a marketing tool. I don't think anyone is denying that fact. The truth is however that this was a tournament titled the "Under Armour Pre-Season
All-America Tournament". I don't remember my son receiving recognition as an "All-American", but rather a participant in said tournament. I would have liked costs to be lower, who wouldn't? I understand that it isn't charity though. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity to play in one of the best TOURNAMENTS of the year. This was a tournament. The players listed were part of a roster, they were not "All Americans". You will see "All Americans" in August in the Under-Armour All America game. If you don't do the research and seperate the difference between a tournament and an All-American game than that's your problem.

quote:

Originally posted by infidel_08:
Welcome, JerseyCoach.

How do you describe an All-American?

To me an All-American would be the best of the best, a select few. It is a term that is earned not bought. I think that was the biggest complaint about the UA title. You could be an All-American simply by playing (and paying) for BaseballFactory or whoever was the organizer.

Your name implies that you are a coach in New Jersey. You might be. Or maybe not. Since I try to see things in a positive light, I'll go along with the thought that you are what your name implies.

Experience has shown me that the title Under-Armour Pre-Season All_American does not include the top players. Rather it is a purchased title that is not necessarily bestowed on the best of the best. To me, that is misleading and therefore illegitimate.

It sounds like your son got a lot of benefits from his participation with the event. That's great. But, I can't help wondering why they had to call it All-American when the participants know full well that it's not. It's a catchy name but the tournament is not what it implies.

Does that mean that PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship would be false advertising as well? I mean is it really marketed to and participated by teams from all over the WORLD?

We have a place down the road called All-American Pizza...but I have no expectation that they are a conglomeration of the top pizza makers in the nation. It is eye catching...a marketing tool. Isn't that what business is about?

JerseyCoach you said:

quote:

If you don't do the research and seperate the difference between a tournament and an All-American game than that's your problem.

But then you go on to say:

quote:

it annoys me to see the legitamacy of the Under Armour PRE-SEASON All America questioned.

You're annoyed at the legitimacy of the tournament being questioned, yet you tell us its our responsiblity to educate ourselves, and when we do so and the feedback is not overwhelmingly positive,...who/what exactly is causing your annoyance?

quote:

My son received video, instruction, tournament play, Under Armour gear, and a great baseball experience.

Not sure how much you paid to receive all of the above, but when we were contacted, the price tag was around $3,500.00+,...plus airfare. The video was an additional cost.


You admitted it yourself:

quote:

Obviously, the term "All-America" is a marketing tool.

You call it a marketing tool.
I call it " questionable " and even possibly " misleading ".

I dont think the criticism is directed at the quality of the tournament, but rather to the " name " of the tournament.

Why not just call it the " Under Armour Baseball Classic " ?
That way no " marketing tool " is necessary and the reputation ( along with the cost of the tournament ),
can stand on its own two feet.

quote:

We have a place down the road called All-American Pizza...but I have no expectation that they are a conglomeration of the top pizza makers in the nation.

Yes,..but a $19.99 pizza,...located down the road,...( that you can personally go look at while perhaps you are pumping gas into your car ),....
is a little more well known and familiar item to the general public than a
$3500.00+ baseball tournament located in another state.

Big difference.

Larry Thompson:

quote:

Does that mean that PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship would be false advertising as well?

No.
PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship tournament name doesnt mislead the consumer to the
" idea " that the participants will be titled a

" WORLD Wood Bat "

if they play in the tournament.

( Thank goodness. Not sure how effective that would be. )

quote:

By larrythompson... Does that mean that PG's WORLD Wood Bat Championship would be false advertising as well? I mean is it really marketed to and participated by teams from all over the WORLD?

Larry,
The answer to your question is YES, to your second question and NO to the first question!
If you've ever been at that event, you would know that there have been teams there from Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Canada, Venezuela, and it is open to any team in the World who would qualify as a top team. There have been players from the countries listed above as well as several others including players from Japan, Korea, Australia, Europe, Columbia, Cuba, Mexico and other parts of the WORLD!

I don't understand what your point is at all or why we would be involved in this discussion.

But seeing that you brought us up, our Preseason All American team will be released by Rawlings this week. Here is a story about the results of our preseason All America list from last year if anyone cares to look at it for any reason.
High School Senior All Americans 2007

Jerseycoach,

This is a topic that's already been beat to death so I won't belabor the point.

Suffice it to say, the big gripe with the Under Armour event is that it puts the "All American" moniker up for sale, instead of awarding it to those who earn recognition on the field.

Kids who are invited first, who decline to pay to attend, are taken off the list and receive no recognition whatsoever. Meanwhile, after the first round of declines, new kids are invited. If they pay, they become All Americans while the kids chosen ahead of them are not named.

I don't think anyone would object to someone holding a January showcase and charging for it. Go or don't as you see fit. But the approach to selling the All American label rubs a lot of people the wrong way, myself included.

TO SAVE ALL OF US A LITTLE EXTRA BREATH AND FINGERS FROM WEAR AND TEAR...PERHAPS THE JERSEY COACH AND OTHERS WHO ARE SMITTEN BY THIS "UNDER ARMOUR" BUG CAN GO TO THE LINK BELOW AND SEE HOW WE'VE HASHED THIS OUT BEFORE...ALLOWING THE REST OF US TO GIVE OUR 2 CENTS ELSEWHERE...

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6616002781/m/5901066462/p/1

The funniest thing about this is that parents/players are so worried about this "list". I clicked that link and the first thing I see is... "Since we're not attending, is he not an All-American"? The answer is pretty simple...he was not an "All-American" either way, you were talented enough to be selected to participate in the PRE-Season All-America tournament. I had no idea people even checked that roster. It was all about the opportunity to let my son play in a nice tournament with players who may not be "studs", but will be playing at a high level in college. My son will play small DI. For us, it was a wonderful opportunity with realistic expectations. My son is nowhere near good enough to be selected for the actual Under Armour All-American game, but it was still quite the experience for him to play against other quality kids and future DI/DII players. Personally, I think it's great that more than just the top 30 or so players have the opportunity to play in an "All-America" event. The "studs" are not the ones who need the exposure, instruction, and acccolades. They will be found, they will be drafted. Like I've said before, most kids are not studs and will not do much past college ball. If you're going to gripe about paying $800 (not $3500 like soneone said) for your child to play in a baseball tournament he will remember for the rest of his life, enjoy the loans for your sons $30,000 tuition. Because guess what, most kids are not getting scholarships, and most kids aren't going pro. I would love to hear from a player that attended, and did not enjoy this experience. Go ahead and gripe about marketing tools all you want,it's a shame you can't see the tournament for what it is.

I mentioned it briefly, but could a parent let me know why they are interested in the Pre-Season All-Americans published by Rawlings? I am trying to figure out the fascination with these lists. Does it give an organization legitamacy that they were able to see enough players to find draft picks that they can publish for you? Do that many of you actually believe your son is someday going to make that list? It would be nice to know what the percentage of players on the list is compared to the number of players PG sees per year. I get the feeling that Under Armour could just go ahead and print names of the best players in the country, but I'm not sure how that helps the average player.

I think it would be considered human nature to take pride in your child's being given an honor, by a reputable organization, based entirely on merit (i.e., an evaluation of talent, however subjective it may be).

I think it's a lot different when the honor is allocated based on who pays and who does not.

I would have thought this was clear from the earlier discussion, but it appears you have an axe to grind on this issue and are not being particularly objective.

JerseyCoach,
If it was only about getting a scholarship we could have saved the money we've spent on baseball and paid for college several times over. It is about getting your son the chance to continue playing baseball at whatever level he best fits. If he can get a scholarship that's great but there's no way we haven't all paid out more for tournaments, equipment, travel and showcases than we'll ever get from a scholarship.

BTW, I could care less what they call the tournament. Most people know what it is and what it isn't. I don't think any college coaches are getting fooled by the title so the kids who are talented enough will be recognized regardless of the title. And as far as studs go I think any kid headed for playing D1 ball is a stud.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
JerseyCoach,
If it was only about getting a scholarship we could have saved the money we've spent on baseball and paid for college several times over. It is about getting your son the chance to continue playing baseball at whatever level he best fits. If he can get a scholarship that's great but there's no way we haven't all paid out more for tournaments, equipment, travel and showcases than we'll ever get from a scholarship.

BTW, I could care less what they call the tournament. Most people know what it is and what it isn't. I don't think any college coaches are getting fooled by the title so the kids who are talented enough will be recognized regardless of the title. And as far as studs go I think any kid headed for playing D1 ball is a stud.

CADAD:
I mostly agree

Midlo:

How do you propose the tournament's be financed? I also paid for my son to play Legion ball. Should he not be proud of his state championship because we were fortunate enough to finance his participation on a good team while others cannot?

My son also fundraised nearly $600 of his costs for the pre-season. We are by no means well off. Seems the only people with a gripe are freightened of "the business". Name a situation where financials aren't an impact on a players recognition. You could start with by telling the players in Camden, NJ High Schools who can't afford a field why they are having trouble being recognized.

You need to towel off. You're ranting, and quite frankly, you're not addressing the point. The other situations you cite are not remotely comparable.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
You need to towel off. You're ranting, and quite frankly, you're not addressing the point. The other situations you cite are not remotely comparable.

I'm not ranting, just asking questions. Still waiting for answers...funny how there are none. I guess all players in little league labeled as "All-Stars" because they can afford to play on the team really are "All-Stars". WHat's your definition of an All-Star?

JerseyCoach,

I didn’t say one word about the event your son attended. My reply was to something larrythompson posted that referred to Perfect Game. I wouldn’t have posted anything on this subject had our name not been mentioned and if it wasn’t mentioned incorrectly.

However, to answer your question. I imagine the Rawlings Pre-Season All American list is not of any great interest to parents unless their son is included. However, it appears (by the responses we get) that the colleges these players will be attending are very interested. FWIW, they sometime like to use that information when describing their freshman class. I had a recruiting coordinator from a present top 10 ranked college send a long detailed email about the importance of their recruits being on these lists. It helps them in several ways in the high pressure world of recruiting.

To answer your other questions… The list represents a very small percentage of the players we have seen. Like everything else, any legitimacy is based on the results of the list, not just the list itself. There are many lists and many events, then there are the results and the results are not the same!

While there are many ways to help the average player, the Rawlings All American and All Regional lists are not something meant to help the average player. It is geared towards recognizing the best players in the country based on our opinion. Nothing more… Nothing less! Players identified receive nothing but recognition and some type of award that Rawlings sends them.

Once again, none of this has anything to do with this thread that you started. I only posted because PG was brought up for some reason and the information posted was incorrect.

I’m glad you and your son enjoyed the experience. Best of luck to him.

PG...you have a PM

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
JerseyCoach,

I didn’t say one word about the event your son attended. My reply was to something larrythompson posted that referred to Perfect Game. I wouldn’t have posted anything on this subject had our name not been mentioned and if it wasn’t mentioned incorrectly.

However, to answer your question. I imagine the Rawlings Pre-Season All American list is not of any great interest to parents unless their son is included. However, it appears (by the responses we get) that the colleges these players will be attending are very interested. FWIW, they sometime like to use that information when describing their freshman class. I had a recruiting coordinator from a present top 10 ranked college send a long detailed email about the importance of their recruits being on these lists. It helps them in several ways in the high pressure world of recruiting.

To answer your other questions… The list represents a very small percentage of the players we have seen. Like everything else, any legitimacy is based on the results of the list, not just the list itself. There are many lists and many events, then there are the results and the results are not the same!

While there are many ways to help the average player, the Rawlings All American and All Regional lists are not something meant to help the average player. It is geared towards recognizing the best players in the country based on our opinion. Nothing more… Nothing less! Players identified receive nothing but recognition and some type of award that Rawlings sends them.

Once again, none of this has anything to do with this thread that you started. I only posted because PG was brought up for some reason and the information posted was incorrect.

I’m glad you and your son enjoyed the experience. Best of luck to him.

I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't realize we couldn't involve multiple discussions in one thread. I don't have any problem with the Rawlings list, I am just trying to understand why "lists" are so important. I do thank you for an honest answer, even though I was hoping to hear it from a parent.

To be on the Rawlings list is a great honor. Basically my understanding from your post is that the list benefits the players included greatly. The problem is that probably 90+% (probably closer to 95+%) of players who are going to play in college will never be on such a list. They need to take other steps. The Pre-Season All America was packed with talent. Maybe not MLB talent, but kids who are going to go on and play ball. The fact that hundreds of kids were given this opportunity is great. I feel bad for the kids who it was financially impossible for, but throughout life they will learn that is a common theme. They will never have an opportunity like this again.

I had another son get accepted to MIT. He played no sports and wasn't offered much help financially. We weighed the options and decided it would be more realistic/beneficial to attend an in state Univeristy. Does he still get to call himself an MIT student because he was accepted? Really ask yourself how this process is any different from Pre-Season All America selection. You tryout (apply) and hope to be invited. If possible, you attend.

quote:

not $3500 like soneone said

JerseyCoach,

That someone would be me ,...and I still have the paperwork
( filed under " ridiculously too expensive for our family " )
that shows the $3500.00 price tag. ( plus airfare/hotel/food/incidentals )

Perhaps different players in different parts of the region received different price tags- that's just my simple guess.(?)
My actual more realistic hunch is that not enough people bit on the original $3500.00 price tag and the tournament roster #'s were too low.
Again,...just MY lil' ol' shortstopmom hunch.

For what its worth, we declined their 1st offer, but about two-three months later they sent us another packet and a few voice messages telling us that the price of the tournament had now been reduced to around $800.
( plus airfare/hotel/food/incidentals. )

Thats a HUGE price drop.
We declined again.

You said:

quote:

I am just trying to understand why "lists" are so important.

...and then go on to say, a mere single sentence later:

quote:

To be on the Rawlings list is a great honor.

Have you answered your own question??????


JerseyCoach quote:

quote:

Go ahead and gripe about marketing tools all you want,it's a shame you can't see the tournament for what it is.

Coach,...you are the second person that I have heard from who have said they had a good experience with this tournament. The first one came from a fellow HSBBW'er, named rwulf.
I have to to be honest, I was glad to hear it. I had my doubts about what the quality of the tournament would be like after experiencing what we thought was a very poorly run tryout camp, here in the midwest.
It was good to hear that some people felt they got their monies worth in the end.

The point being,..I don't think you are finding people disputing the experience of the tournament itself,...what most here are disputing is the name associated with the tournament and how many of us perceive it to be misleading.

quote:

I'm not ranting, just asking questions. Still waiting for answers...funny how there are none

Were giving them to you,....funny how you seem to not want to listen to them.
Let's remember,...you brought the issue up here
and we took our time to respond.

You also self titled your thread:

" Under Armour All America Myth "
and started off the thread with :

....

quote:

it annoys me to see the legitamacy of the Under Armour PRE-SEASON All America questioned.

Some of us replied with reasons/answers such as; the use of misleading or questionable marketing tools.

You rejected our replies with :

quote:

Go ahead and gripe about marketing tools all you want,

Ok,... so no matter what we say, you arent budging.
I'm beginning to understand that now, but I question why you titled your thread the way you did.

If you simply wanted to tell about your personal experience with this tournament, why not just title your thread:
" My son participated in the Under Armour All-American Tournament and had a great experience. I'd recomend it! "

Perhaps it would be received with more of an open mind from the readers and do the tournament a better justice.
JMHO.

Why Myths, smoke & mirrors, ...when you can have the truth?

I love to hear opinions ssmom, but I would like to hear some other than the same three people (one of which has PGSTAFF in the name (biased??), the other 2 replying with the same thing over and over without actually attendingthe event). I stopped regarding your rants after reading your blatant lie about 200 players being in attendance at your sons BBF tryout. I have never seen more than 60 players in attendance (as a coach I have been to nearly 20 BBF tryouts/tournaments in the past 4 years in 4 states.), and have had a few of my own players "waitlisted" because BBF did not want more than 65 players in attendance. I have also never seen fewer than 4 BBF staff members in attendance. As far as tardiness, I find that hard to belive since BBF holds their filming/recruiting session at 9:00 and their tryout (the $100 one you mentioned) at 1:00pm for ALL tryouts. So you're saying they skipped the filming session altogether that day, or were making sure they could finish with their other players??? I have also been to 15+ PG events. I believe in doing whatever my players need, but I ALWAYS remind them that it is a business they are getting involved with either way. That's life.

So SSMOM, your telling me BBF reduced the price by 75% after your son received an invitation for the Pre-Season? Are you sure it wasn't an invitation to Omaha or the Arizona Fall Classic? I have had players on my team go to each, and they are that much (I have never heard any complain, however I have not attended either myself). It's funny how people always need to throw in air fare, hotels, etc. as well...as if BBF has stock in those things.

I may have titled the thread poorly, however I truly felt it was a "myth" for anyone to believe that this is in any way a comparison to the Rawlings list or the Aflac game (which is commonly stated). I do not feel one bit that this was the intention, and I see no harm in calling any future college baseball player a "Pre-Season All American". If people paid $799 to be on this roster ("the list") and nothing else, then they are grossly mis-informed about the purpose of the tournament. Slandering does not help educate.

JerseyCoach, I had a feeling you'de come out swinging.
Thats ok,..I'm a big girl and can take your insults, but I do take opposition to being called a liar.

If you like to call my posts " rants " that is your choice.
I have no ax to grind.

It amazes me that because your experience differed greatly than ours, that you have the audacity to call me a liar. Kind of sad on your part because you are simply wrong.

For what its worth,..the filming that you are referring to was an additional HUGE cost, and one that my son and 200 other people chose not to part take in, therefore we stood outside in the heat waiting for the filming ( which did start at 9 am but ran late ) to end.

Now if you would like me to go point by point over this matter with you, I will. Not sure much good it will do, but we can if you wish. Better yet, since you think you know all, how about you tell me how it went? LOL.

quote:

It's funny how people always need to throw in air fare, hotels, etc. as well...as if BBF has stock in those things.

I dont find it funny at all. I find it factual.
For the price of $3500.00 I dont think it would take a hard stretch of the imagination for the public to assume air fare, hotel, etc. might be inclued in that price.

Funny or factual.
I dont find you funny. I find you insulting and I find you rude.

I am glad you had a good experience and I have said that I know of another who has also.
I also thought that perhaps your point of starting this thread was to let others know that this tournament was a good one.

I have a feeling I was wrong.
.....and so are YOU for calling me a " blatant liar ".

Your respnse was expected, which again is why I would really enjoy seeing some others weigh in. I find it hard to believe Under Armour, Baseball America, and Baseball Express would put their name on such a terrible tryout.......

quote:

I find it hard to believe Under Armour, Baseball America, and Baseball Express would put their name on such a terrible tryout.......

Good point......mine exactly.
( We expected better )
Live and learn.

while i have no dog in this fight. i can say i have seen the letter stateing 3500. plus airfare.but you did get (free) ua gear including turfs.this event was in dodgertown. i still think old school when you didn't pay to go to most showcases you were invited,if you had to pay it was no more than a 100.

i understand the chance of a lifetime tourny for younger kids,i wonder how it fits in a hs player?
youth baseball is a multi, boucoup ,big buck business. that may be one of the few recesion proof money makers.

jersey coach

had another son get accepted to MIT. He played no sports and wasn't offered much help financially. We weighed the options and decided it would be more realistic/beneficial to attend an in state Univeristy. Does he still get to call himself an MIT student because he was accepted? Really ask yourself how this process is any different from Pre-Season All America selection. You tryout (apply) and hope to be invited. If possible, you attend.
----------------------------------------------
you can not call yourself, an mit student.if you aren't a student there.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
while i have no dog in this fight. i can say i have seen the letter stateing 3500. plus airfare.but you did get (free) ua gear including turfs.this event was in dodgertown. i still think old school when you didn't pay to go to most showcases you were invited,if you had to pay it was no more than a 100.

i understand the chance of a lifetime tourny for younger kids,i wonder how it fits in a hs player?
youth baseball is a multi, boucoup ,big buck business. that may be one of the few recesion proof money makers.

jersey coach

had another son get accepted to MIT. He played no sports and wasn't offered much help financially. We weighed the options and decided it would be more realistic/beneficial to attend an in state Univeristy. Does he still get to call himself an MIT student because he was accepted? Really ask yourself how this process is any different from Pre-Season All America selection. You tryout (apply) and hope to be invited. If possible, you attend.
----------------------------------------------
you can not call yourself, an mit student.if you aren't a student there.

That's correct, Dodgertown is another tournament a couple of my players have been invited to/attended (you were correct with the price for that event). It seems like you are someone who understands that this is a lot more about the "experience" then "the list". You live once, and for the average player it ends after high school/college. Some people will scoff at the prices, etc...but the truth is there is a market. If there wasn't a market, it wouldn't exist.

----------------------------------
I bet my son, and many others cannot show their future employers an MIT degree (UA Pre-Season All-America certificate) because of the financials. Chances are, a lot of those students unable to attend MIT are more intelligent (future draft picks) then those who were waitlisted (second round of UA invites) and are now attending. Is this process any different? Get used to it people.

Under Armour PRE-SEASON All American? LOL

It reminds me of the Woody Allen movie - where he bought trophies and put them on his coffeetable to impress his girlfriend. LOL

quote:

I love to hear opinions ssmom, but I would like to hear some other than the same three people (one of which has PGSTAFF in the name (biased??), the other 2 replying with the same thing over and over without actually attendingthe event). I stopped regarding your rants after reading your blatant lie about 200 players being in attendance at your sons BBF tryout. I have never seen more than 60 players in attendance (as a coach I have been to nearly 20 BBF tryouts/tournaments in the past 4 years in 4 states.), and have had a few of my own players "waitlisted" because BBF did not want more than 65 players in attendance. I have also never seen fewer than 4 BBF staff members in attendance. As far as tardiness, I find that hard to belive since BBF holds their filming/recruiting session at 9:00 and their tryout (the $100 one you mentioned) at 1:00pm for ALL tryouts. So you're saying they skipped the filming session altogether that day, or were making sure they could finish with their other players??? I have also been to 15+ PG events. I believe in doing whatever my players need, but I ALWAYS remind them that it is a business they are getting involved with either way. That's life.

Listen JerseyCoach… What did I write that caused you to say anything about being (biased)? Look back at the previous posts and tell us where I even made a single comment about the event or the company you are discussing. You sir, are looking for something here that isn't here and I think it is for all the wrong reasons. Why would you be so passionate about this particular subject? People are saying they are glad to hear your son had a good experience. Isn't that all that should count to a parent? Or is there more to your involvement?

You at this point have posted 14 times at this site. Ten of them about this topic but then there are others.

Post #1 by JerseyCoach

quote:

I'm looking to hold an 18U tournament in the Pittsburgh PA area this fall. Any local tournament rosters would be appreciated.

Post #2 by JerseyCoach

quote:

What are some top High Schools, tournament teams, rosters, etc. in the Toronto area? I am looking to begin recruiting in Canada. Thanks in advance for any help.

Post #3 by JerseyCoach

quote:

I am also looking to recruit and hold a tournament near the Toronto area next fall. Any help would be appreciated!

Post #4 by JerseyCoach

quote:

I meant to include 18U

Anyway, here’s a question, based on your post above and these other previous posts… Could it be YOU who is the one that is biased? It seems you know an awful lot about the subject matter here. It’s OK to be honest!

Please note: I'm not questioning anything other than YOU! You have come on here and called an honest person, who has never done anything but try to help people, a liar! What would be her purpose for lying? What is your purpose?

quote:

Originally posted by JerseyCoach:
I've been a "viewer" for a while and it annoys me to see the legitamacy of the Under Armour PRE-SEASON All America questioned.

http://teamonebaseball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=566678

Legitamacy?
Of what?

A "Pay for All-American" moniker?

Shoot - if I knew that I would have told my son to not work so hard to be an All-American - and I just would have bought it instead.

Thats not marketing - thats just pure BS. IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by JerseyCoach:
I love to hear opinions ssmom, but I would like to hear some other than the same three people (one of which has PGSTAFF in the name (biased??), the other 2 replying with the same thing over and over without actually attendingthe event). I stopped regarding your rants after reading your blatant lie about 200 players being in attendance at your sons BBF tryout. I have never seen more than 60 players in attendance (as a coach I have been to nearly 20 BBF tryouts/tournaments in the past 4 years in 4 states.), and have had a few of my own players "waitlisted" because BBF did not want more than 65 players in attendance. I have also never seen fewer than 4 BBF staff members in attendance. As far as tardiness, I find that hard to belive since BBF holds their filming/recruiting session at 9:00 and their tryout (the $100 one you mentioned) at 1:00pm for ALL tryouts. So you're saying they skipped the filming session altogether that day, or were making sure they could finish with their other players??? I have also been to 15+ PG events. I believe in doing whatever my players need, but I ALWAYS remind them that it is a business they are getting involved with either way. That's life.

So SSMOM, your telling me BBF reduced the price by 75% after your son received an invitation for the Pre-Season? Are you sure it wasn't an invitation to Omaha or the Arizona Fall Classic? I have had players on my team go to each, and they are that much (I have never heard any complain, however I have not attended either myself). It's funny how people always need to throw in air fare, hotels, etc. as well...as if BBF has stock in those things.

I may have titled the thread poorly, however I truly felt it was a "myth" for anyone to believe that this is in any way a comparison to the Rawlings list or the Aflac game (which is commonly stated). I do not feel one bit that this was the intention, and I see no harm in calling any future college baseball player a "Pre-Season All American". If people paid $799 to be on this roster ("the list") and nothing else, then they are grossly mis-informed about the purpose of the tournament. Slandering does not help educate.

JERSEY...I love (BASEBALL FACTORY and PERFECT GAME), and I hate 'em too! Let me explain.

Baseball Factory is right in my backyard, started by a guy who followed me in high school by two years. He asked me to join them when he and his partner decided to start the business. Having been fortunate enough to coach some of the best players in MD back then, they felt I had something to bring to the table...as they saw how me and my coaching staff did everything we could to get our players playing in front of college coaches. I turned him down because I had a good job (with family and bills to pay), and I told him I didn't have the stomach for a business that preys upon parent's emotions. He understood and accepted that I was not a business man. The Factory has given my players over the years wonderful experiences. I mean they have given back to this community. They employ alot of kids around here for summer employment, offer internships in business education, and give many of these guys an early look of what it will be like to coach their own children one day. They have a fantastic staff that I am very familiar with. In my opinion, they don't necessarily offer the best tournaments/on field exposure. What they bring to the table is alot of one-on-one instruction, service and advice. For on field exposure, no doubt about it...PG is as good as it gets. My old team went to Georgia last summer for the WWBA tourney and they were not disappointed.

I gotta run...I'll finish this later.

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Originally posted by PGStaff:

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I love to hear opinions ssmom, but I would like to hear some other than the same three people (one of which has PGSTAFF in the name (biased??), the other 2 replying with the same thing over and over without actually attendingthe event). I stopped regarding your rants after reading your blatant lie about 200 players being in attendance at your sons BBF tryout. I have never seen more than 60 players in attendance (as a coach I have been to nearly 20 BBF tryouts/tournaments in the past 4 years in 4 states.), and have had a few of my own players "waitlisted" because BBF did not want more than 65 players in attendance. I have also never seen fewer than 4 BBF staff members in attendance. As far as tardiness, I find that hard to belive since BBF holds their filming/recruiting session at 9:00 and their tryout (the $100 one you mentioned) at 1:00pm for ALL tryouts. So you're saying they skipped the filming session altogether that day, or were making sure they could finish with their other players??? I have also been to 15+ PG events. I believe in doing whatever my players need, but I ALWAYS remind them that it is a business they are getting involved with either way. That's life.

Listen JerseyCoach… What did I write that caused you to say anything about being (biased)? Look back at the previous posts and tell us where I even made a single comment about the event or the company you are discussing. You sir, are looking for something here that isn't here and I think it is for all the wrong reasons. Why would you be so passionate about this particular subject? People are saying they are glad to hear your son had a good experience. Isn't that all that should count to a parent? Or is there more to your involvement?

You at this point have posted 14 times at this site. Ten of them about this topic but then there are others.

Post #1 by JerseyCoach

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I'm looking to hold an 18U tournament in the Pittsburgh PA area this fall. Any local tournament rosters would be appreciated.

Post #2 by JerseyCoach

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What are some top High Schools, tournament teams, rosters, etc. in the Toronto area? I am looking to begin recruiting in Canada. Thanks in advance for any help.

Post #3 by JerseyCoach

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I am also looking to recruit and hold a tournament near the Toronto area next fall. Any help would be appreciated!

Post #4 by JerseyCoach

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I meant to include 18U

Anyway, here’s a question, based on your post above and these other previous posts… Could it be YOU who is the one that is biased? It seems you know an awful lot about the subject matter here. It’s OK to be honest!

Please note: I'm not questioning anything other than YOU! You have come on here and called an honest person, who has never done anything but try to help people, a liar! What would be her purpose for lying? What is your purpose?

I apologize for believing someone with the name "PGSTAFF" would be biased. How silly of me.

I have not denied being biased. I have scouted and coached accross the country for nearly 20 years. I have held tournaments for my fall teams throughout the country for about 10 years. My experiences with BBF have been second to none, I guess a bias grows. Seems like human nature to me, not something I would ever deny. After all, isn't this supposed to be a fair place to voice an opinion?

My goal was to seperate a PRE-SEASON tournament from an All American list. I thought it would benefit everyone to be better informed. If that is stepping on toes, I apologize.

Still, I have heard the same overblown reactions from the same 3 people.

quote:

Originally posted by JerseyCoach:

My goal was to seperate a PRE-SEASON tournament from an All American list. I thought it would benefit everyone to be better informed.

The best way to seperate it is to take the BS "All-American" out of the title. IMO.

That would help everyone to become better informed. LOL

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:

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Originally posted by JerseyCoach:
I've been a "viewer" for a while and it annoys me to see the legitamacy of the Under Armour PRE-SEASON All America questioned.

http://teamonebaseball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=566678

Legitamacy?
Of what?

A "Pay for All-American" moniker?

Shoot - if I knew that I would have told my son to not work so hard to be an All-American - and I just would have bought it instead.

Thats not marketing - thats just pure BS. IMO.

Instead your son will be neither...unless he is in the top %1 of players in the country. And then if that's the case, your son doesn't need a moniker at all...

JerseyCoach

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After all, isn't this supposed to be a fair place to voice an opinion?

I dont know Coach,...you tell ME.

Jersey coach,

BS.

Thats about it - Just pure BS.

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Originally posted by JerseyCoach:

Instead your son will be neither

Yeah - tell me all about it Coach.

LOL

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:

quote:

Originally posted by JerseyCoach:

My goal was to seperate a PRE-SEASON tournament from an All American list. I thought it would benefit everyone to be better informed.

The best way to seperate it is to take the BS "All-American" out of the title. IMO.

That would help everyone to become better informed. LOL

Are parents really that naive that they think their son in one of the best in the country? If that really is the case, then I apologize and I can agree with this sentiment.

More nonsensical BS.

Your wasting our time with this blabber. IMO

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Originally posted by shortstopmom:
JerseyCoach

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After all, isn't this supposed to be a fair place to voice an opinion?

I dont know Coach,...you tell ME.

I do apologize SSMOM, I just really couldn't buy the idea that they sent $3500 invitations to you, and $799 invitations to the rest of us. I honeslty have also never seen more than 60 players at a tryout. Maybe it's different wherever you live...if it is...I really do apologize. (Like I said, my experience has given me a bias as I'm sure yours has as well)