Underated/Overlooked 2013 players in every discrict

I'd say that no 2013's have been overlooked if we are talking about the recruiting process. Its only Oct of 2011.

Interesting 1st post ever. Axe to grind?

Rich
www.playiinschool.com

No, just curious even though it is early in the recruiting process

Why don't YOU tell US who you think is underrated?

(ApPARENTly from the Easter District.)

Not only the eastern d, but from all discricts, my point is that i see all the same big names from the canes and other large popular and successful organizations, i just wanted to know if there is some talent overlooked by not only colleges but by other teams, coaches

There are plenty of 2013's that play on the Canes, Drillers, and Pirates, etc. in our area. Amongst all of those teams lies the best 2013 talent in Tidewater as of right now. Who do YOU think is underrated?

We'll have a tryout again in November, so if someone thinks they've been overlooked, we'll be glad to look them over!

It's still pretty early, as PIS says. There's always a lot of talk about the guys who get the very early offers, but truly the rubber will hit the road come June 2012 for the more middle-of-the road 2013 player. No panic needed, but instead of getting upset about how some teams seem to promote their guys well, why not try to be one of those guys? I mean, is the point to grind the axe, or is the point to go out there and do what it takes to get yourself a collegiate roster spot?

quote:

Originally posted by yankeesbaseball245:
... my point is that i see all the same big names from the canes and other large popular and successful organizations, i just wanted to know if there is some talent overlooked by not only colleges but by other teams, coaches

Are they overlooked/underrated or are there just not many Eastern District representatives on this website? During the High School season especially and occasionally in the offseason, I see plenty of posts here on Beach and Southeastern District players. If you venture over to HRVarsity.com's message boards you will find Peninsula District players discussed at length and game summarries as well.

Rather than ask if there is some talent overlooked/underrated, name some (Eastern District) players and give them their props for good performances and/or contributions from the '11 season. The rest of us can only speak to players from our districts or players outside of our district playing on teams (Canes/Pirates/Drillers) with which we are associated.

Here's a start. C - Nick Morrissette, (2013, Churchland HS). Strong armed catcher that can hit with power and knows how to call a great game from behind the plate. Your turn.

I actually enjoy posting at times on this Virginia forum. It seems like a lot of good baseball people post here.

Nearly every year we see the top players from Virginia somewhere along the way. I really don't know the geography as to East, West, North, South., but I am familiar with certain areas within the state that consistently peoduce outstanding talent.

That said, I'm positive there is someone, maybe several, kids that are in the 2013 and 2014 classes that are underrated or overlooked. Those kids should really do something about that! Even the kids that are already rated highly get out there and compete against the best whenever they possibly can.

Being completely overlooked in Virginia seems like it would be somewhat difficult. There are too many ways to eliminate that problem.

Sometimes people use money, or lack of it, as an excuse. NO EXCUSE! Some of the very best players we have seen over the years came from poverty stricken families. If the talent and desire is there... There's always a way!

2013?

There are plenty of 2012 guys that are being overlooked. Let me rephrase that...not overlooked, but under-recruited.

quote:

Originally posted by sullyfan:
2013?

There are plenty of 2012 guys that are being overlooked. Let me rephrase that...not overlooked, but under-recruited.

Under recruited? By who's standards? I will quote PIS on this one (love it by the way, Rich):

"I have a business degree from one of the top schools in the state (if not the country). I'm a young, energetic, entrepreneur. I have leadership skills and management experience. Yet, for some reason, the Fortune 100 company, who is headquartered 3 miles from my house, has never knocked on my door. They have never called me. They have never emailed me. Not worried though. I'm sure they will find me."

Let me guess. You coach either the Virginia Cardinals or one of the Canes teams.

quote:

Originally posted by sullyfan:
Let me guess. You coach either the Virginia Cardinals or one of the Canes teams.

I coach one of the Canes teams. What does that have to do with anything I have said?

Sorry, I thought that was well known in this forum. Redbird works with the Canes, I help run the Cardinals.

PIS runs a video service that helps kids promote themselves in the recruiting process. We have used his service on a group basis for our team, and you can see what he offers from the links off our team site.

quote:

Sometimes people use money, or lack of it, as an excuse. NO EXCUSE! Some of the very best players we have seen over the years came from poverty stricken families. If the talent and desire is there... There's always a way!

This is why the Cardinals were established. We are FREE in the truest sense of the term.

So, there's one excuse eliminated. All you have to be, is good enough to make the team.

The Canes do not have much representation from Northern VA. Neither do the Cardinals. Both teams have very good players but they don't have a lock on ALL the good players, believe me. Last I looked, in 2010 the two teams in the State Finals were from Northern Virginia (West Springfield and Woodbridge) and then in 2011 South County was in the finals vs. Great Bridge. South County is from Northern VA.

So unless you have played alot of travel baseball up here, I hardly think you know all the good players in the State.

I agree wholeheartedly. We certainly would like more kids from NoVa. We have had some good ones (Beal, Sborz, Reed, Hunter, McGuire, etc.) but we would like to have more.

With that being said, this discussion has nothing to do with where our players live. It is about colleges recruiting players. Recruiting is about marketing the talent you have and finding someone who likes and appreciates that talent. So, the fact that I am a Canes coach is irrelevant to this discussion, IMO.

If a player isn't getting enough attention, it is usually due to one of two things:

1) Either he hasn't been in front of someone who appreciates his talent

Or

2) He needs to further develop his skills so that someone will appreciate them

So, I will ask for the 3rd time...what 2012's are underrecruited in your opinion?

I agree with all you say about the marketing end of it. The Canes and Cardinals do a great job of marketing their players.

I coached this level of travel baseball for 7 years in Northern VA. Just a few unsigned 2012's I know of from Northern VA that have been under-recruited (in my opinion):

Tyler Thomas (Woodbridge)
Denis Mikush (Robinson)
Kyle Corwin (Westfield)
Andrew Rector (South County)
Sean Trenchard (West Potomac)
Ryan Medric (Marshall)
Kevin LaChance (Centerville)

quote:

Originally posted by sullyfan:
I agree with all you say about the marketing end of it. The Canes and Cardinals do a great job of marketing their players.

I coached this level of travel baseball for 7 years in Northern VA. Just a few unsigned 2012's I know of from Northern VA that have been under-recruited (in my opinion):

Tyler Thomas (Woodbridge)
Denis Mikush (Robinson)
Kyle Corwin (Westfield)
Andrew Rector (South County)
Sean Trenchard (West Potomac)
Ryan Medric (Marshall)
Kevin LaChance (Centerville)

Sully:

I think if you are asking the question "under-recruited", that would be best answered by the college coaches. They decide who they recruit and how much they recruit the players. I will agree with you that the Canes and Cards organizations do a great job in putting their players in front of coaches and getting them seen (marketing), but it really is up to the player and family to do the rest...grades, attitude, work ethic, marketing themselves, etc.

I can speak with a fair degree of knowledge on 6 of the players you listed, because they either are, or have been, with the Stars group. One of the young men was only with them a short time and while he was there chose not to attend several events that had a ton of college coaches present...1 seems to have made the choice that baseball is not his #1 sport (and what I hear, it is the right decision as he is a VERY fine football player that is getting alot of attention from colleges in that sport)....the other 4 have been in front of coaches coaches weekly for at least the past 2 years...and at least 3 of them have been "offered" by schools, but for reasons that they chose the offer/s were not accepted...at least as of this time. That, and the fact that of the 2012 Stars there have been 10 D1 commitments, should show that the Stars group is doing a good job "marketing" their players as well. By the way, I truly hope all these kids land in the right place, as I know and like them all.

In addition, Redbird has a VERY good handle on the talent level statewide. While I have zero affiliation with the Canes, I have had the opportunity to discuss players from the Northern region with him and he knows his stuff...better than most that live in the region.

My point is, there are MANY factors why kids are signed and not signed. Their ability on the field is only one of those factors. Also, and I firmly believe this, if you are a player that really wants to play at a high collegiate level you need to be playing with a group like those mentioned in this thread. They put kids in front of coaches more than any other around here.

This thread seems to have gotten off track, as it was to be about the 2013 players...

isn't tyler thomas ranked with perfect game? i don't have access to that anymore but i know he was at one point.

quote:

Originally posted by right arm of zeus:
isn't tyler thomas ranked with perfect game? i don't have access to that anymore but i know he was at one point.

Yes, he is. I have not seen him play much, but hear nothing but good things about him.

quote:

Originally posted by sullyfan:
...The Canes and Cardinals do a great job of marketing their players....

Well, we are very fortunate to have very talented players to "market". That is not a slight against anyone you have mentioned.

I won't comment on the specific players but I know one of them has been pretty highly recruited and that began very early. I know of several visits he has taken. I'm not sure why it didn't work out with them. As for the others, I know they play in the same organization with very knowlegable coaches. Perhaps you should ask the coaches why this is. As I said previously, it is usually 1 of the 2 reasons I listed above. A cursory check of the PG database shows they haven't been to a PG Showcase.

Also, don't assume that just because a kid isn't committed, he hasn't had offers.

Sometimes offers come and the kid isn't interested in that particular school. So he keeps looking.

And some miss out on very good opportunities sometimes by holding out for something that never comes. I hate it when that happens but it does happen.

quote:

Originally posted by sullyfan:
I agree with all you say about the marketing end of it. The Canes and Cardinals do a great job of marketing their players.

I coached this level of travel baseball for 7 years in Northern VA. Just a few unsigned 2012's I know of from Northern VA that have been under-recruited (in my opinion):

Tyler Thomas (Woodbridge)
Denis Mikush (Robinson)
Kyle Corwin (Westfield)
Andrew Rector (South County)
Sean Trenchard (West Potomac)
Ryan Medric (Marshall)
Kevin LaChance (Centerville)

I think the 'Canes go a great job of marketing many of their players--surely not all.

How do you not market a player that plays for the Canes? They all play in the same tourneys in front of the same college coaches. They are getting seen just like all their other players. What else can they do? You put them in a position to be seen and then it is up to them to show the college coaches what they want to see. Market? I have never understood that term as it relates to showcase baseball on a premier showcase program. Every player has the same opportunity to impress the college coaches that see them play. Its up to the players to show what they can do. Its up to the showcase program to put them in a position to do just that. The Canes certainly do that.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubles Work:
I think the 'Canes go a great job of marketing many of their players--surely not all.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Every player has the same opportunity to impress the coaches. After we put them on the field, it is up to them to perform.

Off the field, we discuss players with the college coaches on a regular basis. I talk to coaches almost weekly. We talk to ACC and SEC schools about our players who have the talent level to play at those schools. We talk to the CAA and like conferences about kids who fit at their schools.

What we DON'T DO is discuss a mid level player with a high level program because it sets the player up to fail and it hurts our credibility.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
How do you not market a player that plays for the Canes? They all play in the same tourneys in front of the same college coaches. They are getting seen just like all their other players. What else can they do? You put them in a position to be seen and then it is up to them to show the college coaches what they want to see. Market? I have never understood that term as it relates to showcase baseball on a premier showcase program. Every player has the same opportunity to impress the college coaches that see them play. Its up to the players to show what they can do. Its up to the showcase program to put them in a position to do just that. The Canes certainly do that.

I don't believe "every player" has the same opportunity but that's simply the opinion of a dad who has been there.

I don't think either West Springfield or South County's team were under-recruited. The West Springfield and South County team had several players go on to play at the next level. To name a few and I am sure I missed some others.

West Springfield - Bobby Wahl, Charlie Morgan, Aaron Self, Garrett Wooddell
South County - Evan Beal, Mike Perez, Tyler Frazier, Luke Bondurant

Also, Lake Braddock and TC had several players move on to play at the next level the last couple of years. Lindemuth, Towns, Kilby, Forrer.

Sullyfan, if you have a specific player in mind, get him in front of the coaches at the weekend individual showcases held at several locations. Good Luck.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:

quote:

Originally posted by Doubles Work:
I think the 'Canes go a great job of marketing many of their players--surely not all.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Every player has the same opportunity to impress the coaches. After we put them on the field, it is up to them to perform.

Off the field, we discuss players with the college coaches on a regular basis. I talk to coaches almost weekly. We talk to ACC and SEC schools about our players who have the talent level to play at those schools. We talk to the CAA and like conferences about kids who fit at their schools.

What we DON'T DO is discuss a mid level player with a high level program because it sets the player up to fail and it hurts our credibility.

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. I know what I saw and it was not just with my son. The 'Canes run a good operation. But to say they treat everyone fairly or every player has the same opportunity is just not the case. You may want to believe that but perhaps you are too close to the situation.

I believe the Canes operate no differently than any other baseball organization that is attempting to put their players into college programs.

Redbird said "What we DON'T DO is discuss a mid level player with a high level program because it sets the player up to fail and it hurts our credibility" and I would bet all the other organizations operate in the same manner.

This might lead you to believe that all the players are not given the same opportunity but not all of the players are of the same caliber. Some are better than others. That’s a hard pill to swallow (even for me) and is quite humbling at times but it is a fact.

Bottom line is that the player's opportunities will stem from his performance and these showcase organizations (not just the Canes) will promote their players to those colleges requiring a certain caliber of player and a position requirement of the school. What I believe Redbird is saying is that the Canes will promote all their kids and some will get to major colleges because they are that good, some will go to mid-majors because that is the best fit for that individual but they all will be promoted the minute they step on the field with the Canes uniform… and to the school that the Canes coaches feel they will be successful.

quote:

Originally posted by mathews41:
I believe the Canes operate no differently than any other baseball organization that is attempting to put their players into college programs.

Redbird said "What we DON'T DO is discuss a mid level player with a high level program because it sets the player up to fail and it hurts our credibility" and I would bet all the other organizations operate in the same manner.

This might lead you to believe that all the players are not given the same opportunity but not all of the players are of the same caliber. Some are better than others. That’s a hard pill to swallow (even for me) and is quite humbling at times but it is a fact.

Bottom line is that the player's opportunities will stem from his performance and these showcase organizations (not just the Canes) will promote their players to those colleges requiring a certain caliber of player and a position requirement of the school. What I believe Redbird is saying is that the Canes will promote all their kids and some will get to major colleges because they are that good, some will go to mid-majors because that is the best fit for that individual but they all will be promoted the minute they step on the field with the Canes uniform… and to the school that the Canes coaches feel they will be successful.

That's all fine. While I respect your post, I understood exactly what Redbird was saying. It was not unclear.

That said, I don't agree that every player has the same opportunity. I have also said that I think the 'Canes are a good organization. I believe that. There are some benefits to playing with some of the best players in the region. However, I stand by my thoughts and know I am not alone. I am very pleased with the D-1 school where my son plays and what he is doing there. I don't, however, believe playing for the 'Canes had much to do with it and that's fine--he did it mostly on his own with the help of his high school coach.

This is not a knock on the 'Canes although it seems that some nerve was struck. It seemed very clear to a number of parents that players were not given the same opportunity. Life is not fair and that's a great lesson learned early in life.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubles Work:
...This is not a knock on the 'Canes although it seems that some nerve was struck. It seemed very clear to a number of parents that players were not given the same opportunity. Life is not fair and that's a great lesson learned early in life.

No...no nerve struck at all. I just believe that a coach's idea of an opportunity differs from a parent's idea of an opportunity. We can disagree.

This thread really went in a different direction. My original point was that it is kind of crazy to think that a 2013 has been overlooked...especially when there are alot of 2013's that have yet to play 1 inning of Varsity baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:

quote:

Originally posted by Doubles Work:
...This is not a knock on the 'Canes although it seems that some nerve was struck. It seemed very clear to a number of parents that players were not given the same opportunity. Life is not fair and that's a great lesson learned early in life.

No...no nerve struck at all. I just believe that a coach's idea of an opportunity differs from a parent's idea of an opportunity. We can disagree.

Agreed, we can disagree although I do agree with your statement that coach's idea of "same opportunity" may not be a player (or parent's) view of "same opportunity". The debate lies in those two words.

While I look back on the seasons my son was a 'Cane and see it as not really worth all the time and treasure (my son might disagree somewhat), it surely was worth it for others. I wish that organization the very best and the kids that play there nothing but success.

True that "opportunity" is in the eye of the beholder. Lots of factors go into playing time, because that is really what "opportunity" means. It could be that a certain college coach has shown up to watch a game to see a specific player. If that player has worked to get in front of that college coach then his showcase coach will obviously try to ensure that he is on the field to be seen. From the stands it would appear that the coach is being unfair to the others if they don't get the same amount of innings. In that case would "fair" be defined as giving the player who worked to ensure that college coach came to see him play a few extra innings? I would say Yes. Because all the parent in the stands knows is that there is a college coach there and THEIR player is sitting the bench. Instantly for them its not fair but yet they might not have done a thing to attract that coach to the game. But it doesn't mean their right... I think that there are a lot of parents who pick up with a team and then figure they can sit back, do nothing and then complain if someone else gets something that their player isn't getting. I've seen it happen lots of times. Too often the parent figures that the showcase coach is supposed to somehow now be their player's "Agent" and do all the e-mailing, phone calling etc. and get upset when that doesn't happen to their liking... Yet every coach on this board reminds players and parents over and over and over to not sit back but rather to take control of their own future and do the work.

I also personally believe that even if a particular showcase team is not "responsible" for a player getting picked up by a college that doesn't mean that that player saw no benefit. My son has also received a scholarship offer and even if his particular showcase team had not been the one to get him picked up (in our case they certainly were the reason though) I think that he still benefited immensely from just the fact that he played on that team. His time with those coaches and his teammates changed the way he played the game from both a physical and confidence/mental approach. This was then carried on to his HS team where he has played very well. Could he have then gotten signed by someone who saw him exclusively in HS play? Sure. But would it have then meant that his showcase team was not responsible for his signing? For me I would have to say No...

With all that said, I have seen cases where players of some of the showcase teams mentioned have been shuffled around onto a team within their org that might not have been the one that they originally started with and that they felt was of a lesser caliber. Obviously the moves were made for a reason but in some cases that was not communicated very well to the player/parents and there were some major hard feelings because of it. In a couple of cases it ended up in a whole lot of money being spent for almost nothing in return. So can the showcase coaches/managers do a better job in some instances? Sure. But I think that they get it right a heck of a lot more times than they get it wrong. That's for sure...

I think that Showcase / Travel baseball has helped many GOOD players tremendously. Why?

I know kids that went on to play college baseball or were starters and major contributors on travel teams, where they may have never played on their HS teams, and it wasn't because there were better players ahead of them.

Not talking about my kid..so it's not personal. Heck I know a kid who played for me when I first started coaching...my kid was still in diapers.

The kid moved to a new school (job transfer for Dad) and went to the local HS tryout. The kid was a 6ft 9th grader. Lefty. Threw BB's. Good breaking stuff. Not only that? He could hit. He got cut the FIRST DAY. The kid ended up transferring to a private school on an academic scholarship (Great student) and walked on to their team.

An assistant coach for the HS in question saw this kid playing travel ball that Summer. Asked where he went to school..then asked why he hadn't tried out. When the kid told him he DID and was cut the first day the Coach about had a heart attack.

I'm not saying it happens THAT often...but it does happen.

Hello,

This is my first post to this site, but I have viewed the site from time to time over the past year.

It's been several weeks since I last looked at this site, but I notice my son's name listed as one of the players on Sullyfan’s list from Northern VA. I can say for a fact, that my son has attended showcases almost every weekend, since mid-June of this year. To this point, he has not received any offers.

I'm thinking the coach of the Canes may recall my son, because he pitched in the Showcase game between the 2012 Canes North team and the Stars @ the Virginia Tech Stadium back on Saturday June 18. He started the game, pitched the 1st three innings, had 5 Ks, allowed only one weak ground ball single and had no walks. As I recall, the only baserunner was trown out trying to steal 2nd base and not a single ball was hit out of the infield during his three innings. He topped out at 87 MPH that day. This was the only meeting between the Canes and the Stars over the past year plus, so it should stand out.

I will say this has been a very frustrating recruiting process over the past several months. Not to say that my son was underrated, overlooked or more deserving, since he was contacted by several D1 coaches in the summer. He had five Div 1 schools call him on July 1 and several others during the Summer. He is registered at Perfect Game and listed as an Honorable mention for the Class of 2012 in Perfect Game. His peak velocity recorded over the summer was 88 MPH at East Cobb on July 4th U18 WWB. His team did not play in the U17 WWB.

For what it’s worth, my son was invited to the select Washington Nationals Area Code game tryouts in June, but he was not invited to this years South Atlantic Border Battle on Oct 29th-30th.

Is it supposedly the fault of the event's organizers that someone let themselves get overlooked?

Whose job is it to get a player noticed?

The answer is, it is the player's job. If he's sitting around waiting for someone else to push his name around, he shouldn't wonder that he got overlooked.

If a player was interested in this event and not chosen, he might want to ask his coach why his coach did not push for him when asked. He might want to ask himself why he let this event get by him without inquiring about the opportunity or asking to be considered. I mean, this event is a known event. Did the player familiarize himself with opportunities that he should pursue, and then pursue them?

Not picking on Buster, nor anyone else in particular here, but it's an unavoidable fact that there are more highly talented players out there than any one event can handle. If you want to participate, you have to get after it. It's like being 30 years old, seeing someone else getting a job you didn't apply for, and wondering why the employer didn't come find you.

Meaning, the whole recruiting process is one protracted job application. The sooner a kid figures that out and embraces what it entails, the more likely it is that his process will end well. Obviously on-field performances are very important, but they are not enough on their own. Lots of kids playing your son's position are performing well on the field, yet not all will be chosen for an event, for a particular college's baseball program, etc. You can get beat out on, or off the field.

Is it supposedly the fault of the event's organizers that someone let themselves get overlooked?

What? Are you seriously saying that players "let themselves" get overlooked?

This may come as a surprise to some (and not just MD, but others here), but for a number of reasons, BB "events" - especially at higher levels are not (compared w/other youth sports) well advertised. At all. Favoritisms (of various sorts) seems more so than in the other youth sports I work with....

Your analogy, MD, to job hunting would be more correct if the said 30 year old found out that the job opening was only made to a "select" few individuals, thus precluding his even knowing @ it.

You can get beat out on, or off the field. True. Blaming those who "got beat" b/c of what they could not know isn't helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
...The answer is, it is the player's job...

Funny you say that. I was contacted by a player who was not initially on the roster asking to be considered for the SABB. I forwarded his info and he is now on the roster. There is no favoritism and I do not know the kid personally.

If you want something, pursue it. Don't just sit back and complain that you don't get it.