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23 replies

Unsportsmanlike ?

hatmanhatman10+ posts
This may be a HTBT situation, but about every 2 weeks, as an umpire, I run into a 15 - 17 year old team who, as a group, do the following: When this team is at bat, they clap, hoot 'n holler "encouragement" to the batter, in general make a LOT of noise. It is obvious to me that they are really working on the pitcher, as half of them are looking directly at him, and really pour it on during his windup. They are obviously trying to unnerve the pitcher, and it works pretty good for a couple of innings until (if) the pitcher gets used to it.

This is very unsportsmanlike, and just plain Bush League. I would like to stop it, but am unsure of what rule to apply as an explanation to the manager. If a runner is on base, I can invoke Rule 4.06 (a) "No manager or player... shall at any time...employ any word or phrase, or commit any act while the ball is alive and in play, for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit a balk".

What if no runner is on base? Can I invoke Rule 2.00 - Inteference (a) - "Offensive inteference is an act by the team at bat which inteferes with...or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play". But this rule has no "teeth".

I warned the manager last night in the first inning, but they started up in the 2nd again, with the Manager leading the troops. How can I stop this obnoxious behavior? (Need a rule here).
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TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
You gentlemen need to attend a few games in the inner city or latino sections----they have drums, horns and voices all going at the same time and they have a ball---some will even be dancing in the dugout between innings---

we have a fairly decent size contingent of Latim American players on our team and they get into it and trust me it is not to disturb the other team--it is there way of cheering their team on and having a great time

What gets to the umpires is when we begin speaking in spanish to one another---the umpires think the kids are talking about them when they are not
T TripleDad500+ posts
TR your post brings back an old memory. Some years back I was coaching a 11u team in a big tournament. We were playing a team from the Chicago area in our first pool game. The opposing teams parents filled up plastic litre bottles with rocks and shaking them while our pitchers were in the windup. The noise was unbelievable. It was driving me CRAZY! I said something to the ump and said nothing he could do about it. So we faced the team again in the elimination rounds. I sent our team mom to buy air horns and hand them out to the parents, they knew what to do. When their pitcher went into the windup the horns went off and I think the pitcher pooped himself. The ump comes over to me and tells me he is going to stop the game and get the tournament director. So I say, just get their coach to stop the bottle shakers and we will stop the horns! Well, problem solved. No noise makers in the stands and we played a nice ballgame without distraction. That situation cost me $60 but was worth every penny.
StyleMismatchStyleMismatch100+ posts
quote:

We all know what they are trying to do and it isnt cheering on the batter.......you may not like it (and I dont either) but there is nothing you can do about it.

There is no rule supporting your desire to stop it....I feel the same way about bat waving, but its legal.


Piaa,

What about

OBR 9.01
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field....

IMHO, the act described in the original post is unsportsmanlike, and 9.01 would give you the authority to take action, wouldn't it?
Last edited by StyleMismatch
LonBlue67LonBlue67100+ posts
as long as they are cheering their guy and not dissing the other team, let it go. if it gets personal against the other team, thats a different situation.


99 times out of 100, 9.01(c) is a crutch for umpires who dont know or dont care to manage a game properly. Resist the temptation to legislate everything that 'just doesnt seem right' with 9.01(c).
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Actually it would probably encourage more


Or it might cost that team the starting pitcher if it was deemed he threw at a batter.....


9.01c is the rule that allows umpires to rule on any situation that is not specifically covered in the rule book.

As Lonblue states, in the advanced umpiring community, use of rule 9.01c is considered a sign of an umpire whose rule knowledge is lacking or whose game management skills need honed.....I see Umpires who bring 9.01c into play most often as umpires who are attempting to legislate an agenda that makes more sense to them....

I sympathize....yet, one of the skills of an umpire is to remain a neutral arbiter of the game and not to introduce your personal views into the game.

Save 9.01c for the earthquake/tornado/act of god that it was intended to be used for. There is a rule applicable for most situations.........study and find it,......if you cant find a rule against it its legal whether we like it or not......
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by hatman:
Thanks for the responses. I really love this forum, as it is a big help to me. I managed teams for 12 years, now wearing the Blue. Trying to improve with every game, digging in "The Book" frequently to verify what I did was right or wrong.

It's good to see you here trying to learn. Reading the book is a great thing but remember it doesn't answer all the questions. There are interp books out there that help plus sites such as this one are great resources. I sure wish they were around when I ws coming up. I know many including PIAA have said the same thing.
Beyween the internet, interp manuals and clinics young umpires can improve way faster than we were able to years ago. The learning tools just weren't there.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
not stupid at all..........

HTBT is umpire talk for "had to be there".......we use it when we discuss situations that usually involve more judgment than rules knowledge.....for example...."That move may have been a balk but is a definate HTBT."


Nd943
quote:
The pitcher's not going to get tossed if he throws inside..come on now.


Only difference is what the other team is doing is legal...(even if I dont like it) and throwing at a batter is illegal ( and I really dont like that)........and do you really want me making that decision.......
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
piaa_ump, I understand what you're saying. I'm probably coming off as a dirty player, but I'm not, I just play the game how it should be played. You'd really toss a pitcher for throwing inside? You'd have to be positive he was throwing at the batter..and without a warning? This is just how the game is played.


First off, you are not coming off as a dirty player....Like TRHit, I too come from the time when pitching inside was just part of the game, so I do not want to come off as legislating that out and surely the games I do with Post HS players contain much more pure baseball than those I do of the sub HS variety......we called it hard nosed baseball back in the day.......

In 15-17 yr olds,(basically JV level) I'd never toss a pitcher "just" for throwing inside. I have however tossed a pitcher for throwing at a batter.....its all up to me to decide which it is.....

There is a fine line here and Ive been between both of them. On one side is the coach/team who says let the game police itself and then when/if a game gets ugly, the blame goes to the umpires who let the game get out of hand.......

What I am saying is that I will keep the game under control. I will make the determinations as to if you are pitching inside or throwing at a batter and I will do what is neccesary to keep things on an even keel.....it may be a warning, or it may be one or more ejections.....

you have to decide if its worth putting that determination into my hands.....because at that time, only my opinion counts......
Last edited by piaa_ump
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
I have had catchers complain that a batter is hanging over the zone and taking a portion of the zone from the pitcher. I always explain that he is allowed to throw there with no problem. If he hits the batter in the zone it will be a strike. Catchers are amazed at the answer.
Now throwing at a batter is another story. With experience you can tell the difference between what is legal, what is illegal and what is simply a ball that got away. Sometimes throwing at a batter will get a warning and other times a straight toss, it depends on the situation. HTBT and experience is the difference.
Last edited by Michael S. Taylor
biggerpapibiggerpapi5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
HTBT is umpire talk for "had to be there".......we use it when we discuss situations that usually involve more judgment than rules knowledge.....for example...."That move may have been a balk but is a definate HTBT."


Oh, you mean like when I tell my children really interesting and funny stories about my childhood.

...... Guess you HTBT.

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