"Unsung Heros"

There is a younger faction of baseball that believes that anything that happened more than 10 years ago is no longer relevant. And many of these people never played beyond little league. They could not be more wrong. Baseball is more than science & numbers. I believe it to be equal parts art and science. Science can be learned quickly if it’s taught properly. Art can’t. It takes time and experience (and intuition) go a long way. There is too much value being placed on data analysts (that don’t understand how the game is played) at the expense of scouts (who do know how the game is played. Many organizations are currently very poorly run IMO. And  Rob Manfred is a certified card carrying idiot.

Adbono;
Can you tell if a pitcher has a sore arm by his walk? The computer
processes the info. A Professional Scout watches every move of a hitter, a
pitcher, a fielder before and during the game and records.
Bob

On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 3:54 PM HS Baseball Web <alerts@crowdstack.com>
wrote:

@adbono posted:

There is a younger faction of baseball that believes that anything that happened more than 10 years ago is no longer relevant. And many of these people never played beyond little league. They could not be more wrong. Baseball is more than science & numbers. I believe it to be equal parts art and science. Science can be learned quickly if it’s taught properly. Art can’t. It takes time and experience (and intuition) go a long way. There is too much value being placed on data analysts (that don’t understand how the game is played) at the expense of scouts (who do know how the game is played. Many organizations are currently very poorly run IMO. And  Rob Manfred is a certified card carrying idiot.

There isn’t a metric for intensity and desire. It has to be observed and gauged. Some players play a lot larger than their physical stature and metrics.

Pedroia fits my example of a player who will bite the nails out of walls and spit them back at you if it’s what it takes to win. How do you measure this?

The Bay Area Padres scout lied about Jimmy Rollins size. He knew if he reported 5’7” 140 organizational cross checkers would never check him out.

RJM and Adbono;

The SF Bay area Scout was Jethro McIntyre. When Jimmy Rollins was 14 years old Jethro sent him to Santa Rosa for a private "work out" for our Area Code International team.

The rest is "history".

Bob

This is seen in other industries as well. Yes it is ageism paired with saving costs.

I have zero experience in scouting, but I’ll relay something interesting.  My son’s pitching coach is very skeptical of the metrics and how they translate.  His examples are related to the rapsodo and track man data and how it translates to real world events, either eye test or game results.  He actually doesn’t like any of it.  He’s seen too many of his pitchers that have X and Y movement only get X-5 and Y-5 (or more) type readings from the ‘technology’.  

There is a place in the sport for technology, but, like I say in my profession, I can give you a button to press that does the work for you, but if you can recreate what that button does from scratch because you understand all the underlying processes, you can solve any problem.  I don’t want button pushers.  Baseball might have too many button pushers right now.  

I agree with what everyone has said, but I'm curious, why does no-one post anything (here) in defense of metrics?  Surely if MLB is moving in that direction, someone must be in favor of it?

@anotherparent posted:

I agree with what everyone has said, but I'm curious, why does no-one post anything (here) in defense of metrics?  Surely if MLB is moving in that direction, someone must be in favor of it?

I don’t believe many people here are against metrics. It’s just they recognize there are some aspects of the game you can’t measure with numbers that affect productivity … ability to handle pressure, emotional stability, passion, desire, etc.

I coached a kid through 16u who had all the potential in the world. He looked exactly how you would build a ball player. In high school and travel he put up his big numbers against the lesser teams. But put him in a showcase he played to the metrics and drew crowds.

His well respected college coach called him possibly his best recruit ever. After coaching the kid for three years and knowing his mental makeup I figured it would be his biggest bust ever.

For three years his coach handed him a starting job. For three years he lost it by the opening of SEC play.

One time after a 17u game my son commented, “If second base is an island called me Gilligan. Bobby stranded me there all day.”

@anotherparent posted:

I agree with what everyone has said, but I'm curious, why does no-one post anything (here) in defense of metrics?  Surely if MLB is moving in that direction, someone must be in favor of it?

To be fair, the pitching coach my son sees also likes to gather those metrics to help the pitchers have something verifiable to show coaches.  He’s just not a fan because he feels the numbers aren’t perfect, especially horizontal and vertical movement at the plate. This is a guy that has been coaching pitchers for a decade or more and also pitched in the MLB for a decade.  He knows the numbers are valuable but he doesn’t like that they are required now and the numbers don’t always match what he sees.

His perspective is inline with @RJM in that there is execution of pitches in game that are more critical to your future success and recruitment than running a Rapsodo every bullpen to get your best numbers.  

Son uses metrics a lot to shape pitches and to decide what he works on. He definitely doesn't run a report every bullpen. The way it seems to work for him is he and and his coaches run a set of numbers. Coaches say, for instance, we want you to increase your vertical from this range to this range over the offseason.

Son then works with pitching coaches and his personal coach to make a plan for what steps they think will lead to that chance, he, works on it for a period of time, and then they run a new set of numbers to check his progress.

I'm often surprised by how often a goal (just an example) like "increase velocity" ends up with action steps like "open your hips more on release" or something similar.

Iowa Mom;
Has the pitching Coach studied your son's placement of his feet on the
mound? Sometimes the pitcher will "tip" his pitches by placing his feet to
the left side of the mound for a curve and the right side for a "fastball".
NO metrics can determine this error, only "baseball intelligence"!!
Bob

On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 7:53 AM HS Baseball Web <alerts@crowdstack.com>
wrote:

@Consultant posted:

Iowa Mom;
Has the pitching Coach studied your son's placement of his feet on the
mound? Sometimes the pitcher will "tip" his pitches by placing his feet to
the left side of the mound for a curve and the right side for a "fastball".
NO metrics can determine this error, only "baseball intelligence"!!
Bob

On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 7:53 AM HS Baseball Web <alerts@crowdstack.com>
wrote:

I don't know if his coach told him, but my son found some occasions where he felt he was tipping pitches by watching video of himself and has worked to improve on that. Seems like you need a good balance of baseball intelligence and metrics — and having the baseball intelligence to know which metrics are going to be helpful.

Metrics are great tools; you can debate their value, but they are and will continue to be an important part of all kinetic sports science going forward. The coaches (or scouts) that can combine mastery of the science with practical application experience, common sense and intuition will be the most successful.