HS pitcher called for a balk at yesterday's game because the first baseman's foot was in foul territory while holding a runner on. That was a first in my 40-something years of watching the game.
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I've heard of that, but never seen it.
The one that's driving me nuts this year is the new NFHS rule about pitchers having to have their pitching hand at their side or behind their back. If their hand is in front of them with or without the ball, it's a balk. I had that called four times in two games this year!
The one that's driving me nuts this year is the new NFHS rule about pitchers having to have their pitching hand at their side or behind their back. If their hand is in front of them with or without the ball, it's a balk. I had that called four times in two games this year!
Blown call....a first baseman with his foot in foul territory is not a balk.....the rule states that every player with the exception of the catcher must be in fair territory....but there is no penalty for doing so...it is just a "dont do that"....and for the purpose of the rule, only one foot has to be in fair ground to be considered in fair territory....
This has been around for years and in the old days was called a "fielders balk"..........blown call...plain and simple.
As to the NFHS rule about the pitching hand.... that is correct and from R Ringer's post has been correctly called 4 times on his team this year.....NFHS allows only 2 ball positions when in the stretch.....at your side, or behind your back...all which give the runner a view of the ball.....no gorilla arm and not in front.....
Correct call by the umpire......(all 4 times)
This has been around for years and in the old days was called a "fielders balk"..........blown call...plain and simple.
As to the NFHS rule about the pitching hand.... that is correct and from R Ringer's post has been correctly called 4 times on his team this year.....NFHS allows only 2 ball positions when in the stretch.....at your side, or behind your back...all which give the runner a view of the ball.....no gorilla arm and not in front.....
Correct call by the umpire......(all 4 times)
quote:Originally posted by piaa_ump:
....and for the purpose of the rule, only one foot has to be in fair ground to be considered in fair territory....
This is correct. Not that you needed confirmation but I had specifically argued this with an umpire before and it was confirmed by the UIC.
pu & rb are correct.
Interesting. What if both feet are foul, still no balk?
No balk. "Don't do that" to both teams if a coach complains. Then eject.
To All,
Ref NFHS Rule 1-1-4 Penalty.
Ref NFHS Rule 1-1-4 Penalty.
As to the balk for the hand in front, this isn't a new rule. It is just a being reemphasized this year and last.
My question to any coach is why do pitcher do it. What advantage are they gaining by doing something that is clearly in the rule not to do?
My question to any coach is why do pitcher do it. What advantage are they gaining by doing something that is clearly in the rule not to do?
MT, it is not an unusual habit among pitchers. The rule is not necessarily uniformly enforced (I've never seen it called, ever). And it isn't called under OBR.
Thus it may be overlooked by some coaches and players. Until the first time it is called...
Thus it may be overlooked by some coaches and players. Until the first time it is called...
What if the pitcher is one of those who leans forward to get signs and his pitching arm hangs straight down, neither in front or back, or at his side? My HS son does this, usually with ball in hand, and has never been called (I never heard of the rule, being only a parent, not an ump).
What your son is doing is called a gorilla arm. It is illegal under all codes but not enforced under most. I wish it was called more because it can cause more problems than not.
If I am in a league that doesn't worry about it I will keep a close look and if he does anything that resembles bringing the arm up and drops it back, even slightly, I will call the balk.
I had a coach in a tarvel ball tournament complain about a kid that was laying the ball on his hip in front of him. I explained we were using OBR and pro interps allow it. He complained mildly but then let it go. The next inning he put in a new pitcher that was doing the gorille arm. I told him his pitcher was violating the exact rule he was just complaining about. I got the sideways head look then allowed as I was right.
I still want to know why do pitchers do it. Do they think it gains tham an advantage or is it just cool?
Edited to add last paragraph.
If I am in a league that doesn't worry about it I will keep a close look and if he does anything that resembles bringing the arm up and drops it back, even slightly, I will call the balk.
I had a coach in a tarvel ball tournament complain about a kid that was laying the ball on his hip in front of him. I explained we were using OBR and pro interps allow it. He complained mildly but then let it go. The next inning he put in a new pitcher that was doing the gorille arm. I told him his pitcher was violating the exact rule he was just complaining about. I got the sideways head look then allowed as I was right.
I still want to know why do pitchers do it. Do they think it gains tham an advantage or is it just cool?
Edited to add last paragraph.
I dont' understand. What problems can it cause?
He is simply taking the signs and then coming up into the stretch. As far as why he does it, i don't know. It looks like he is just resting before he does it, maybe with glove-hand arm/elbow on knee, and then doesn't change to take the sign. It never occured to me to ask, and I never paid close enough attention to know exactly the way he goes about it anyway.
He is simply taking the signs and then coming up into the stretch. As far as why he does it, i don't know. It looks like he is just resting before he does it, maybe with glove-hand arm/elbow on knee, and then doesn't change to take the sign. It never occured to me to ask, and I never paid close enough attention to know exactly the way he goes about it anyway.
1-1-4 at the time of the pitch,all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. a fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground.penalty:illegal pitch.(2-18-1)illegal pitch-an illegal pitch is an illegal act committed by the pitcher with no runner on base which results in a ball being awarded the batter. when an illegal pitch occurs with a runner, or runners on base,it is ruled a BALK.
CPTTUNA
This is where just the reading of the rule book does not include all aspects of any situation....it really is not all that clear...however...
the penalty you described if for a catchers balk. Technically, a catcher's balk is called against the pitcher for delivering the pitch illegally. A balk can be called if F2 is out of the catcher's box when the pitch leaves F1's hand. penalty is an illegal pitch.....
As to a fielder, There is no associated penalty for violating that portion of the rule. The balk penalty deals with the catcher's position only.
If F3 or F5 is standing in foul territory, it's a "don't do that". Most umpires will either ignore it or quietly tell the defender to get both feet in fair territory. Some will ignore the violation unless the opposing coach says something or the violation is too obvious to ignore. Then they enforce the rule both ways. Depending on the age of the player, warn the offender sufficiently then eject him if he continues to violate the rule.
Here is where advanced reference materials are worth thier weight in gold....The NAPBL ( National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues)manual for umpires says "Ignore the situation until the other team objects. When they object, enforce the rule equally for both teams. Enforcement consists of making sure all players except the catcher are in fair territory prior to the pitch. Do not allow a pitch until this occurs. If a player refuses to comply with your instructions or repeatedly violates them, eject. No balk shall be called."
Hope this helps.
This is where just the reading of the rule book does not include all aspects of any situation....it really is not all that clear...however...
the penalty you described if for a catchers balk. Technically, a catcher's balk is called against the pitcher for delivering the pitch illegally. A balk can be called if F2 is out of the catcher's box when the pitch leaves F1's hand. penalty is an illegal pitch.....
As to a fielder, There is no associated penalty for violating that portion of the rule. The balk penalty deals with the catcher's position only.
If F3 or F5 is standing in foul territory, it's a "don't do that". Most umpires will either ignore it or quietly tell the defender to get both feet in fair territory. Some will ignore the violation unless the opposing coach says something or the violation is too obvious to ignore. Then they enforce the rule both ways. Depending on the age of the player, warn the offender sufficiently then eject him if he continues to violate the rule.
Here is where advanced reference materials are worth thier weight in gold....The NAPBL ( National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues)manual for umpires says "Ignore the situation until the other team objects. When they object, enforce the rule equally for both teams. Enforcement consists of making sure all players except the catcher are in fair territory prior to the pitch. Do not allow a pitch until this occurs. If a player refuses to comply with your instructions or repeatedly violates them, eject. No balk shall be called."
Hope this helps.
To All,
I guess I'm playing devil's advocate here but...
Ref NFHS Case Book 1.1.4 SITUATION on page 5.
I guess I'm playing devil's advocate here but...
Ref NFHS Case Book 1.1.4 SITUATION on page 5.