USA Today-Major in eligibility, minor in beating the system

My son didn't take the asy courses. The college experience is to get an education and play BB. He is taking a business degeree which is always useful regardless of what he wants to do. He also took a full credit load and will graduate with honors in May.
There is no other way.

In a somewhat circumloqutious way, the author gets to the meat of the problem...why are academic advisors and coaches being afforded so much influence on the athletes academics?

Just about a year ago Jim Harbaugh, former Wolverine and current Stanford FB HC, threw his alma mater under the bus for steering athletes away from disciplines that were challenging and said that his coaches told him his major was football.

My son went to a school without a football program and there, the only benefit athletes had was that they were mandated to study tables if the gpa fell below a 3.0. Some may call that punishment, Mom and Dad called it a perk.

Football and basketball skews the whole athletic scenario, but then again, in most situations, it's those programs that supports the rest.

The 12 hour minimum credit hour requirement puts an athlete on course to have 80% of their degree completed by the end of their fourth year (2 semesters/year * 12 credits/semester * 4 years) = 96. 96/120 = .80.

One recommendation for athletes is to plan for a five year degree program when possible. This will help compensate for the sports time commitment. Financial concerns or institutional requirements may prevent this strategy.

With my son, I have insisted on maintaining a 3.0 or higher GPA. Also, he has taken a challenging degree. IMHO, it is a waste of time to major in eligibility (e.g., easy degree, minimum GPA). Generally speaking, the harder a degree is to achieve, the more it pays when you get out.

quote:

IMHO, it is a waste of time to major in eligibility (e.g., easy degree, minimum GPA). Generally speaking, the harder a degree is to achieve, the more it pays when you get out.

Whether parents want to accept it or not, IMO scholarship athletes initially enter school as an athlete first and student second. It is the job of the athlete, program, and the athletes parents to steer that ship in many cases. What sometimes bothers me is that programs many times are pointed at as the reason for the student/athletes failure, and all this time I thought locker rooms were full of mirrors.

I think we need some input from Myron Rolle's parents.
As a Gator fan, it pains me to write this, but Myron is starting Safety for FSU. On Saturday, he will risk missing a football game that could end up determining whether or not his team can play for the conference championship to interview for a Rhode's scholarship. They are actually trying to get him a charter flight from his Birmingham interview to the same day Maryland game. But, this is just one example of a player, one that could have an NFL future, that puts academics over athletics. An extreme example, I know. But, he would be the 2nd player from that program to win a Rhodes scholarship, if selected. I'm not ignoring the message of the article as FSU has really low graduation percentages from their Football/Basketball athletes, I'm just saying it is possible to do both extremely well.

If you look at any roster you will find clusters of specific majors among players. Education, business, management, marketing, computer science. What's wrong with that? My friend is a doctor who played 4 years of college ball, he actually didn't know that is what he wanted to do until he was done with undergraduate school. Most bb players or most college athletes do not get full rides or play beyond college, most good programs have good athletic counselors to guide them in the right direction. I can't speak for other sports. One thing that one really has to understand, in certain sports, most likely one would not have had an opportunity to go to college. Full athletic scholarships affords the opportunity they might not have had. Once they all head off to college, they learn quickly that it is about getting an education, they usually make good choices on their own.

My son thought about majoring in engineering, they told him it probably would not work with the time he'd have to put into their bb program, therefore make a choice as to what would be most important to him at the time of commitment. If you want to be an engineer, you might not want to consider baseball here. It's called choice. Sometimes those choices go on the back burner when the word "free" is involved. Sometimes players/parents have no prior discussions with the academic department before they commit (very important to do so) but they ask the coach every question from A to Z and want answers. Now the player gets out of school and says, I didn't take full advantage of what there was to offer. IMO, yes he/she did, he/she got his/her education paid for and he/she got degree in hand. If it was the wrong degree, that is his/her mistake.

Most entering college have no clue what they would like to major in, all students. My husband changed his major mid stream in college, he had to make it up later on. He didn't play sports, he said he sure could have used that guidance given to son while at school. He had absolutely no direction for his career goals. 30 years later he went back to school for something completely non related to his degree in college.

The player received a 4 year degree for free (full in football), that was his choice.

There is always grad school to pursue his dream of being a vet.

Sportsfan&dad,
The answer to your question depends on what your sons professional goals might be. Mine wanted to play bb as a professional, but he wanted to go to college, some here may say he took the easy way out, sports managment with business minor when he someday completes his degree. He is now playing professional ball and most of his education was paid for by scholarship and the balance will be paid for by MLB. Who knows what he really wants to do if and when he stops playing the game. If he wants to change his mind when he goes back to school, that's his issue, not mine.

Another trick to help athletes with their time committments is with planning and loading. Planning involves looking at the entire degree requirements in the catalog and mapping out a rough plan. Loading involves when particular courses are taken and basically is determined from the plan.

Example first year plan:
1st semester
1) English 101
2) Psychology 101
3) Social Science 101
4) Elective

2nd semester
1) English 102
2) Psychology 102
3) Social Science 102
4) Elective

What's wrong with this plan? It is too easily loaded on the first year. The remaining years might become very difficult to schedule (core requirments only offerred certain times a year as general courses offered all the time). Also, by taking all your easy courses first, you might put yourself in a bind by being stuck taking all hard courses the following semesters.

A better plan is to space those general requirements out with the harder degree courses so that things can be managed more reasonably.

Example first year of managed plan:
1st semester
1) English 101
2) Psychology 101
3) Degree requirement 150
4) Degree requirement 160

2nd semester
1) English 102
2) Elective
3) Degree requirement 151
4) Degree requirement 161

quote:

If you look at any roster you will find clusters of specific majors among players. Education, business, management, marketing, computer science.

TPM - I am not trying to be a wise guy but you will not find clustering in the computer science department. You won't find it in the Engineering Department either as you noted. Frankly, you will probably not see any clustering in the hard core sciences, engineering, or mathematics. Clustering is involved when the courses are perceived as easy.

quote:

The player received a 4 year degree for free (full in football), that was his choice.

There is always grad school to pursue his dream of being a vet.

I have to agree with TPM. I was a pre-vet major. Physics knocked me out, not football (nor my illustrious collegiate equestrian career). At that time, it was harder to get into vet school than med school. Don't know if that's still the same.

On the other hand, I took a physics class with this guy: Terry Hoage

He did better than I did...

quote:

TPM Quote:
The answer to your question depends on what your sons professional goals might be. Mine wanted to play bb as a professional,

IMHO, almost every player who enters college on a scholarship has the goal of playing professionally. If that hasn't been their goal/dream from the beginning they have not been driven by the passion of the game. My son was the same as TPM's, as was his entire team, maybe not all admittedly, but subconsciously. The real student/athlete changes majors out of academic interests, the jock changes to find the easy road. I guess somethings better than nothing in those cases, but, that athlete shouldn't blame it on the system, rather they should take a look in the nearest mirror.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Most good programs have good athletic counselors to guide them in the right direction.

I think the whole gist of the article was that the bulk of student/athletes were taking the easy way out and it was being heavily influenced by counselors, peers and coaches. That would contradict your assertion that they do a good job for the student, but they are fulfilling the requirements of the coaches, which is to keep the player eligible and the program APR on track.

quote:

A better plan is to space those general requirements out with the harder degree courses so that things can be managed more reasonably.

Example first year of managed plan:
1st semester
1) English 101
2) Psychology 101
3) Degree requirement 150
4) Degree requirement 160

2nd semester
1) English 102
2) Elective
3) Degree requirement 151
4) Degree requirement 161

Good points. Another option is to take more difficult courses in the fall, when there is a bit more time to study, and less difficult classes during the busy spring season. My son will be taking only 12 hours this spring, but will take 3 hours in an online course this summer. These days, there is amazing flexibility with week-long minisessions, online courses, hybrid courses (part classroom/part online), etc.

This thread is right up my alley. My 2010 son is wanting to find a school to play baseball at and get an engineering degree. He has started his search by looking at the top academic schools in CA and it doesn't look promising. Sociology (Stanford), Political Science, American Studies??(Berkeley), Communication, Kinesiology, and Business are the majors of the baseball players on rosters at top schools. There is an average of about one or two students out of 35 that is taking the tough major

He knows the slim odds of making a career in playing baseball. He wants a skill related major that will lead to a job, not just a degree. Right now we are concentrating on schools that don't require a chosen major to get in and offer a wide selection of science and engineering majors, like the UC's and Stanford. Baseball may get him into a school, but will they allow him to choose his own major from there? And the bigger question, could he handle it if he chooses a tough major?

These questions really weigh on a 16 year old kid. I can see the stress mounting, and I really am not sure what advice to give him. I have always told him to play baseball for as long as you can, but it may come down to making a choice between academics and sports.

Interesting. As a college professor, academic advisor, and as a person who spent 15 years in college athletics, with a son who changed majors two days in his junior year, I will weigh in on this.

My son was in one of those clustered majors, Sport Management, in his case. Did not get squat out of it for two years, and changed majors just this semester to Exercise Physiology, something much more demanding and much more satisfying. The boy is finally turned on to academics as much as he is in baseball.

However, from my years of experience, he is the rare bird (or Hornet). Much of what the article talks about is TRUE. And what is wrong with athletes gravitating to "friendly" majors. Certainly, at many schools, the athletes are at the schools to play ball and not for the academic rigors, even at the D3 level. Many of those majors have a low hour requirement allowing for many free electives, which allow for schedule flexibility. Other, more demanding majors, may require more hours in the majors, with many classes offered in the afternoons, which are an impossible task for the student-athlete.

In short, the way SOME of the colleges use the athletes, so why should the athlete not use the system to at least get CLOSE to a college degree. Yes, this may be an unpopular sentiment, but that is the fact, very often. Ultimately, it is up to the athlete to do what he/she can do to maintain eligibility, and if that involves a so-called "lesser" major, then so be it.

The one quote from the article that sticks out to me is..

"I realize I just wasted all my efforts in high school and college to get a social science degree,"

Blprk,
There shouldn't be any apprehension on your sons part about choosing an academic challenge. There are athletes across the country every day that prove that it can be done with effort and dedication. I know students that took 22 hours in season last year and never had eligibility problems. Some of these same athletes are majoring in pre med, nuclear engineering, civil engineering, and systems engineering.

Best of luck to you and your son.

In my opinion, college bachelors degrees now a days dont have the same weight as in years past. You pretty much have to get a masters in most studies. My son is a freshmane at a JC, he is majoring in business and most likely a concentration in marketing. When you do not have an idea what you want to do business, communications. liberal studies are degrees a lot of kids get. My daughter graduated alomost 3 and a half years ago with a degree in Psychology, she went to work for a college as a financial aide officer for 2 years, HATED it. she is now at Macys working in Origins. One year on the floor plus her degree will enable her to become a buyer. She still had to start at the bottom at Macys, they want work experinece as well.The degree will enable to open the door to being a buyer. bachelors degrees these days are a lot more common.
Employees want to see a degree, the fact that you took a wide breath of classes and are educated, can speak well, write well, now some of these PE degrees I do not know what you can do besides be a PE teacher. My sons first semester: he cant take upper division at a JC. 1.Statistics 2.English comp A 3.science with a lab 4. Intro to theatre(fine arts) plus PE/ next semester 1. econ 1, 2. accounting 1. 3. english 1B (composition) 4. Art appreciation with 5 days a week baseball and traveling these classes are challenging enough for him for his first year. I think the problem lies in certain schools (wont mention names) where 3/4 of the teams(wont mention sport) NEVER graduate becasue they are all counting on playing pro.
My son does not want to be an engineer or a doctor, he just at this time wants a general bachelors and go from there.

My son did as Infield08 suggested. He found out which classes were more demading of time and effort and loaded his fall up with them. He tried to chose classes in the spring that weren't on Friday.
Hopefully this will work out. He had a great fall academically so far but found the courses very denanding.

quote:

JT Quote,
In short, the way SOME of the colleges use the athletes, so why should the athlete not use the system to at least get CLOSE to a college degree. Yes, this may be an unpopular sentiment, but that is the fact, very often. Ultimately, it is up to the athlete to do what he/she can do to maintain eligibility, and if that involves a so-called "lesser" major, then so be it.

Nice post JT.

I guess sometimes you get what the system gives. I just feel that there is good percentage of student athletes who will not be living up to their expectations, and that's bad for everyones future. The two questions that come to mind as a cause are..............

1. Is the poor student who was allowed admittence because of their on field ability to blame for setting low standards and allowing all student/athletes a way to "Easy Street"?

2. Are these "cluster programs" a schools cost effective alternative for an athlete who has short sighted academic goals?

For the last 25 years I've worked for a large University and have concluded that while the credit costs are the same, the overhead and cost per student in a tough academic program (ie: Comp Sci) is greater than the cost of a General Studies program. Why waste your academic dollar on a cluster of athletes who may change programs when you can push them through low maintenance programs.

Maybe this is a conspiracy with both the athletic and academic sides pulling the strings.

quote:

Originally posted by JT:

My son was in one of those clustered majors, Sport Management, in his case. Did not get squat out of it for two years, and changed majors just this semester to Exercise Physiology, something much more demanding and much more satisfying.

With all due respect, this so called cluster is offered at sons university through the College of Education. Incorporated in the curriculum is a business minor, therefore, the following classes are required:

Accounting
Managerial Accounting
Macro Econ
Micro Econ
Management
Finance
Marketing
QBA-Statistics I and II
Computer Applications

None of the electives and requirements include basket weaving or egg frying 101.

Additionally, he works unpaid for the Golf program at both the course and improvement facility. He is also a near scratch golfer.

If baseball is not the ticket, the basis for this degree leads to additional schooling for PGA Club Professional designation where you run a facility, give lessons, etc. and allows one to work on his game for possible qualifiers.

I think golf course management is a great field. One of my son's friends took it and now manages a golf course in Whistler BC. His wife also works with him. He makes great money and loves what he does. What a great way to make a living. He was a top student and a great golfer.
You can't really compare football and basketball scholarships to BB. BB guys are much smarter !!!

Back in my day (long time ago 1978) the same issues were very front and center. Many of my teammates decided to take "recommended courses". I decided to use college for what it was intended for, getting an education. There was some tension with the athletic department but nothing that could not be worked ( so long as I played well). I ended up using my undergraduate degree to get into law school and get a J.D. after my rotator cuff surgery. I do not think people appreciate just how hard it is to take a real full time academic load and play ball. It was very hard to schedule my major around the practice times and games. I went to a Southern school and we practiced from Noon to 4 pm daily and had conditioning every other night. There were many days I had to take 7 a.m. classes or late night classes that my teammates did not have to take. But it was worth it. I cannot imagine how unfulfilled my life would be if I had not actually used College for what college is intended for and merely went to college to play ball. I will agree that to the athletic department you are an athlete first and student second from my experience. However, if the player is determined and has a good work ethic there is no reason he cannot get a solid degree and have a fine baseball experience.

It is hard to manage. My son often gets home from late classes at around 11:30. He also works 2 part time jobs. One in the cafeteria and the other as a Pitching coach. His 2 roommates are 4.0 students and so is his girl friend. When I visited them a few weeks ago they were a hoot. All of them studying lined up with their notebook computers every night. They wrote exams while I was living in their apt and they never missed a beat. I was impressed with all of them. Great work habits and nothing distracted them.
I wish I could say the same when I was in college.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Most good programs have good athletic counselors to guide them in the right direction.

I think the whole gist of the article was that the bulk of student/athletes were taking the easy way out and it was being heavily influenced by counselors, peers and coaches. That would contradict your assertion that they do a good job for the student, but they are fulfilling the requirements of the coaches, which is to keep the player eligible and the program APR on track.

CP,
Not denying that some programs want and encourage the player to take the easy way out. I would imagine that a lot of it has to do with what the player did in HS and the school he will be attending.
The advisors job is to help the player manage their workload. A good advisor should give good options, it's the player's choice to take the easier class or not. Would you agree JT?
Discussing academic goals is very important during recruiting. If one plans on being an engineer (as an example) and engineering labs fall in the afternoons or evenings and so does practice and games, one has to decide which will be of more importance. While coaches will never discourage you from your academic goal, it's very hard to not practice everyday and be a starter at the same time.
Baseball, because of it's long season and frequency of games, is very hard to plan your academic goals around for some majors.
You'll find more players taking business, marketing, education etc because of the abundance of times to choose from, not necessarily because it's the easy way out.

JMO.

Good post TulsaZ and welcome to the HSBBW.

TulsaZ - welcome to the hsbbweb!

Excellent post for your first try!

quote:

While coaches will never discourage you from your academic goal, it's very hard to not practice everyday and be a starter at the same time.
Baseball, because of it's long season and frequency of games, is very hard to plan your academic goals around for some majors.
You'll find more players taking business, marketing, education etc because of the abundance of times to choose from, not necessarily because it's the easy way out.

I agree with that.

I still think that Engineering could be worked out if a kid were REALLY dedicated. Labs do throw a kink in the schedule but I'll bet professors would let dedicated student-athletes make up the labs at odd times if necessary.

The list of classes OS8 posted were not gimmee's by any stretch and certainly applicable in the real world.

BLPRKFRNKS states:

quote:

This thread is right up my alley. My 2010 son is wanting to find a school to play baseball at and get an engineering degree. He has started his search by looking at the top academic schools in CA and it doesn't look promising. Sociology (Stanford), Political Science, American Studies??(Berkeley), Communication, Kinesiology, and Business are the majors of the baseball players on rosters at top schools. There is an average of about one or two students out of 35 that is taking the tough major.

quote:

It really depends on the kid and school. Stanford and Cal encourage all athletes to take whatever major they want, but they also provide realistic counseling. [note: I went through five majors before I found the right fit, and I don't even work in that area.]. Plus Stanford won't take a player who can't succeed academically, whereas other schools have greater latitude. It's hard to tell the exact distribution of majors from the Stanford baseball roster, because they don't require you to declare a major until your third year. Many baseball players take difficult majors, including math and engineering.

Of the 8-9 Stanford players who had majors declared on the website, 5 were sociology, 2 engineering, and 1 economics. One player who graduated this year had a degree and very high GPA in computational matehematics.

Stanford baseball's majors distribution is probably not too disproportionate to the entire student body, which includes a ton of kids who are pure liberal arts majors seeking careers in, among others, politics and public policy. Not everyone thinks a sociology or psych degree from Stanford fails to prepare one for life or for a career. Also remember that at Cal, the Haas School of Business is one of the best in the nation. Rice also has serious academics, as do the Ivies.

The following are the top 5 majors for all male athletes (including football) at Stanford:

1st place: Economics
2nd place: Human Biology (Pre Med)
3rd place: Political Science
4th place: Sociology
5th place: Psychology

Stanford has no non-academic majors.

When we were talking to a number of schools this year, some openly discouraged a hard major while others said they provide enough academic support to ensure that a player can make it in his major if that's his desire. Shame on schools that don't encourage strong academic performance and freedom to choose a major.

Baseball has a way of testing desire on many fronts, and if a player really wants to succeed academically, he can.

I’ve been wondering why TRHit hasn’t jumped in here…so I’ll do it:

Cry…Me…A…River.

Someone offering to pay an education for you and it’s their fault? No way.

One nephew played 4 year college football and ended up with Master in Civil Engineering.

Other nephew offered D1 baseball and football, turned down scholarship opp's for pursuit of his now newly passed Iowa Law Bar exam.

Non-athlete daughter was with us and son at D1 ACC visit (her current school) and after hearing spiel by academic advisors, tour of fully outfitted academic counseling area in football complex, and tutors available, her comments:

“Do they change their diaper too?” “Oh, poor babies, let me get you a binky.” Things like that (pure jealousy as she has to do it all without those advisors and tutors.) And she said the ball players she saw at the night clubs on occasion were not looking too stressed.

Bottom line – I agree with ClevelandDad, anything is possible. If it is because you can’t handle the courses due to sports, then I am not sure you could handle them anyway, even without the sports.

I couldn’t handle Calculus and Physics for the mechanical engineering degree. It was because the sports I played were done after dark. Not because I did not have the time, it was all about my choices. I chose to become a business major. No one is writing stories about me in USA today, or the hundred’s of thousands of other students in this country who change majors for whatever reason.

quote:

I went through five majors before I found the right fit, and I don't even work in that area

Great thread. How many of us work in our area of our major - I know I don't. In no way do I advocate the easy road, but there is a definite need for kids and adults to find balance. Those kids with passions for engineering or sciences will find balance on the field and in the classroom. I also think those kids who will need to change their majors five times will find their education both on and off the field.

I commented on the article because sometimes I wonder if people don't have better things to do than come up with theories regarding academic challenges that exist almost everywhere.

I really don't care whether a team is taking all of the same major or they all are taking majors that are different. What matters is that they are getting an opportunity to continue playing beyond HS and getting an education. Everyone has choices and no one forces you into that choice. You are given options. you make of the situation that best fits your goals. If that school doesn't fill your needs academically (if you know beforehand what that is), why attend?

Fortunetly or unfortunetly where you play college ball sometimes determines your academic future whether you like it or not. Looking back, no way could son play where he did and come out being a doctor or an engineer, even being a good student heading into college, there are enough distractions as it is, it was just too difficult for him to miss ANY class, let alone one with a more demading major. This was a part of the decision he made, he had opotunities to play at schools were the bb program had different expectations. The important thing was that he has an opportunity to do both, and to him that was most important, even if he had to take a less "challenging" major. My son took 6 math classes in HS and 4 science classes in HS all honors and when he went off to school he decided, NO MORE MATH OR SCIENCE unless I need it. He atually enjoyed some of the classes that were "different" than he had experienced in HS.

Most of son's friends who went to college majored in business or finance and they didn't play sports, did they take the easy way out? Most of them lost a semester or part of because no one was pushing them to graduate in 4 years.

Those that have the opportunity to go to college and have valuable resources like athletic AND academic advisors and perks like athletic centers that offer help and assitance and tutoring worked hard to gain those advantages on the field and in the classroom. Take advantage of all you can, but try not to fill up the plate to full to set yourself up for failure. Part of going to school is having a life outside of the classroom and off the field as well. Sometimes there's a lot more you learn in those 4 years than just your intended major. It is an opprtunity to grow up and learn real responsibility. Being a student and an athlete is NOT an easy task.

If a player comes out of college whining thar they wasted 4 years of free education, that's their problem, poor planning.

the players that took the easy way out stayed home, quit sports and didn't go to college. Alot of the college student athletes that earn degrees only go to school to play sports. That is hardly a news flash for most folks. Most of those folks will be better off than not going to school at all, which also shouldn't be surprising.

There are numerous challanging and rewarding degree programs for nearly anyones interests and goals. If you are smart enough and work hard enough, there is no limit to possible academic achievement. I find it disapointing that players who routinely ignored naysayers about their athletic abilities most of their lives, don't follow their academic dreams, as well.

Baseball players can and do succeed in challenging curriculums. I know a few petroleum engineers who were my son's teammates, including a couple who made a little money in pro ball first. These kids are only limited by their desire and interests. The fact athletes academic life is closely monitred is a good thing, imo. Academic advsors are just that, advisors and not requirers.

If Steve Cline is disappointed in the quality of his degree he needs to blame the guy in the mirror. Too bad, so Sad. Got an issue? Grab a tissue, I say. Freaking babies........

.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:....Those that have the opportunity to go to college and have valuable resources like athletic AND academic advisors and perks like athletic centers that offer help and assitance and tutoring worked hard to gain those advantages on the field and in the classroom. Take advantage of all you can, but try not to fill up the plate to full to set yourself up for failure. Part of going to school is having a life outside of the classroom and off the field as well. Sometimes there's a lot more you learn in those 4 years than just your intended major. It is an opprtunity to grow up and learn real responsibility. Being a student and an athlete is NOT an easy task.

And...

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:.....Academic advsors are just that, advisors and not requirers.

If Steve Cline is disappointed in the quality of his degree he needs to blame the guy in the mirror.

Yep.

These guys who are complaining had no problem taking the easy(ier) route at the time did they? Now they want to blame someone else for a path they themselves did not take. Life is about choices...yours. And consequences of those choices. Like most things you get out of it what you put into it.

Interesting about colleges now being thought of as trade schools. The word "university" is derived from the Latin "universitas magistrorum et scholarium," roughly meaning "community of teachers and scholars". They began in the middle ages as a place to get yourself a broad education, to make yourself a better citizen. Originally nothing there about university being a trade school and offering guaranteed six figure income and work two days a week. Getting a FREE education even a broad one is no tragedy. Being an semi educated whiner who was given every opportunity is. Stop whining, Take half the money you saved and go back and get a second degree. Maybe it is easier to sue and whine.

Beyond that like most human endeavors, both academic and athletic achievement can arranged on a bell curve. A few individuals will excel through challenge academically and a larger % will not. Some will take on the high academic challenge, more will not. It's OK. We cannot make/expect every individual to be a high academic the same way that we cannot make/expect every kid to be a high draft pick. Opportunities or not.


44
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Although there is no doubt that sniveling was at issue, that's not what I took from the article. While I can agree with and even endorse the "you made your bed, now lie in it", way of life, there is more at stake here.

Aren't we the same people that counsel guidance and direction from parents when it comes to the recruiting process? It's not as if when they disappear behind their dorm room door the first time, they are miraculously emancipated and endowed with wisdom.

What I took away is that influences exist that coerce and cajole, reccomend and direct, sway and sometimes insist. What I got out of it was the dynamic that the NCAA created with upping the APR stakes and how that forced kids into situations where they sometimes were faced with decisions like ineligibility vs. switching majors. How coaches who's livelyhoods depend on athletic production are faced with situations where they must weigh their own/schools good vs. the desire/best interest of the student athlete. How administrators and counselors, the people we have put our trust in to put our childrens best interest first, are failing in that trust to widely varying degrees.

Although not a conspiricy theorist, I do understand how self preservationists view the sliding ethical scale. It seems in full force at many universities.

There's more here than just some whiny bastages that think the world owes them more. There's a culture developing, if not fully developed, that nurtures and endorses low academic achievement. I think that understanding it, and bringing it to light may help us better the system.

That's what I got out of it.

Speaking of lowering academics, In the Sacramento Bee today they mentioned how they are considering lowering the standards to get into the UC system. Some things mentioned No more Subject tests, 2.8 GPA, wow.Get the book dumbing us down, this has been going on for a long time. I attend a university to finish my bachelors, I work with a writing tutor, she siad she gets students in there that cant even write a paragraph let alone a paper.The system has done this so more kids can go to college????

I think Stanford is different than most colleges in that the prestige of the school and the network of people at the school assure that good employment will be found with nearly any major. From what I have seen of their recruiting, I suspect they are top notch on their academic counseling as well.

Since Stanford (or UCSD for that matter) doesn't lure recruits with atletic scholarships, could a student get into the school via baseball, but after a few years decide to drop baseball and focus on school only. Is that considered unethical?

The problem is that nearly every good student athlete would like to go there and they only are recruiting ten baseball players a year max. They are a long shot for all but the best ballplayers with great academics.

Hearing some of you posters say that Baseball and engineering can be done is encouraging.

I wonder if the student athletes in the USA article were students that would not have gotten into college at all without their athletic abilities. If that is the case, maybe taking the less time-consuming majors was the only way they would have avoided failure. If the athletes are the only students admitted with a lower standard, they would likely be looking for the less demanding major in the first place.

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Hearing some of you posters say that Baseball and engineering can be done is encouraging.

My son's freshman teammate is a pre-med major and missed most of practice one day a week in order to attend biology lab this fall. It can be done if you have the will and the desire.

That said, there are quite a few baseball players I know who simply are not all that academically-inclined. Whether they spend 30 hours a week playing baseball or not, they will still gravitate to the easy majors, easy classes, and easy professors -- and probably regret it after they graduate.

My husband, who was a college athlete, says he strove to do the bare minimum in classes during high school and all the way through the second year of college. Finally, as a junior, he started getting more serious. He says there was no correlation between the demands of athletics and his low academic achievement. He was simply immature and disinterested in studying. My hunch is that there are a whole lot of student-athletes out there like him......

(P.S. He is now a successful businessman who just celebrated 20 years with his company, so there is hope! )

Easier courses and degrees were not designed so athletes could get through school. They are there because some students don't have the same capabilities as others. The issue is - is it better to get a degree (even if that degree is perceived to be less rigorous) than no degree at all. Not every person in our society is a Rhodes Scholar or Summa Cum Laude. There are all kinds of degrees that seem designed for kids that may have some learning disability (LD) or simply had trying times during their upbringing which put them behind the learning curve for one reason or another.

What is more difficult - a superior student excelling at their pre-med curriculum or an LD kid struggling to get a less rigorous degree. Hard to say but it can be argued that both are impressive achievements nonetheless.

Aside from the obvious time-management issues of choosing a hard vs easy major, one side effect of the academic progress rules is that it's almost impossible to change majors once a kid is on a track and remain eligible. A lot of kids may take a year or two to really figure out what subjects they really have a passion for, but if they choose a major as a frosh that they find out later isn't what floats their boat, they have very few options if they want to stay eligible.