USSSA v Nations Baseball

Based on my experience, USSSA sucks. They are generated purely by money- period!

Regarding the new league. Who knows? Why will it be different?

Funny two posts two OPPOSITE answers.

Like LL sucks, but Dixe Youth doesn't etc.

Every LEAGUE and ORGANIZATION is ONLY as GOOD as the PEOPLE running it.

And what do USSSA and NATIONS have to do with "helping players"? That's the job of the team's COACH. USSSA and NATIONS are simply places that host tournaments and teams.

If you go to one Wendy's and get bad service, does that make All Wendys bad?

A program is as good or bad as the local people running the tournament. When two local operators switched affiliations from AAU to USSSA and USSSA to CABA, nothing changed at those tournaments.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
A program is as good or bad as the local people running the tournament. When two local operators switched affiliations from AAU to USSSA and USSSA to CABA, nothing changed at those tournaments.

I agree 100% thats true of any affiliations. We just played in a Nations tournament and won it. IMO the competition in Nations wasnt as good as Usssa.

The tournament seemed more organized but the tournament director was an $$$. Usssa around here has the best teams but again the tournament director is a great guy but very unorganized.

All of these affiliates are in it for the money dont be fooled. There isnt a single one out there in it for the kids.

A guy that I know runs a Usssa area and I know he has said he nets 40 to 50k per month from those Usssa tournaments. Thats not a bad living for 8 months out of the year.

quote:

All of these affiliates are in it for the money dont be fooled. There isnt a single one out there in it for the kids.

A guy that I know runs a Usssa area and I know he has said he nets 40 to 50k per month from those Usssa tournaments. Thats not a bad living for 8 months out of the year.

The money making is in the 9U to 14U range. By 15U daddy is starting to figure son isn't a player. You see a lot less teams starting at 15U. Then the numbers drop each year. At 16U the good teams are playing as many elite tournaments as local ones. At 17U the good teams are playing mostly in the elite tournaments.

OCB wrote: "All of these affiliates are in it for the money dont be fooled. There isnt a single one out there in it for the kids."

What a bunch of ****. Just like all coaches are in it for the money?! We all have to make a living- some of us choose to do it doing something we care about.

I know there are bad ones out there, but for you to paint all of us with such a broad brush is obnoxious and just plain wrong.

By the way... There are very few tournament directors netting anywhere close to the numbers you threw out there. They would have to have 500+ plus teams in tournaments each month. There are only 2,3, maybe 4 guys in the country doing those kinds of numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by XtremeBB:
OCB wrote: "All of these affiliates are in it for the money dont be fooled. There isnt a single one out there in it for the kids."

What a bunch of ****. Just like all coaches are in it for the money?! We all have to make a living- some of us choose to do it doing something we care about.

I know there are bad ones out there, but for you to paint all of us with such a broad brush is obnoxious and just plain wrong.

By the way... There are very few tournament directors netting anywhere close to the numbers you threw out there. They would have to have 500+ plus teams in tournaments each month. There are only 2,3, maybe 4 guys in the country doing those kinds of numbers.

You know you are right I shouldnt have placed everyone in that category. Let me rephrase.

Not all but a lot of the tournament directors who run these tournaments are in it for the money. Now Im not going to fault them for trying to make a living but lets not live in a fairy tail and say they all do it for the kids.

I know that all coaches are not in it for the money but I know here in this area there are an ahful lot who are. You got programs that want to charge kids to tryout, coaches charging $200 + per month per kid just to be on the team. This does not include tournament fees, plus each kid having to split the cost between them for each hotel stay of each coach for out of town trips. This is just one example around here, I could write a book giving several more LOL.

As for what this tournament director I refered too was making, I should have said that includes consessions. You have affiliates here who hold tournaments every weekend. You know when you pay $5 for a hamburger, $3 for a hotdog and $4 for a drink thats a lot of profit LOL.

I recently saw an add where some team wanted a fee to try out. That's crazy. No way I ever pay for anyone to take a look at my kid. I should charge them!

If these tourneys are so overpriced (and they are), and their personell overpaid, why not host your own tournament(S)? It aint rocket science... As the economy fails, and there is less fun money available for families, why not cut out the middle man and have travel / club teams host their own, do the work, and reap the profits?

quote:

Originally posted by Poppi:
I recently saw an add where some team wanted a fee to try out. That's crazy. No way I ever pay for anyone to take a look at my kid. I should charge them!

If these tourneys are so overpriced (and they are), and their personell overpaid, why not host your own tournament(S)? It aint rocket science... As the economy fails, and there is less fun money available for families, why not cut out the middle man and have travel / club teams host their own, do the work, and reap the profits?

The problem with hosting your own tournaments is the fact that most of these tournament directors have the fields used tied up with contracts from the city.

The ball parks that are available dont have the field space. The money thats earned from a lot of these tournaments comes from consessions, not entry fees.

OCB,
Thanks for the insight. As usual, any thing that sounds too easy usually is. If the fields are lighted can they play after dark? If the team managers think / plan ahead, can they get to city hall on January 2nd, and book the fields for a prime weekend (or 2) themselves? Just asking; I've never done any of this myself, yet!

As far as concessions, I usually don't spend very much. Between games a few other dads and I schlep out for homemade sandwiches, and a few cold beers, in the car!

quote:

Originally posted by Poppi:
OCB,
Thanks for the insight. As usual, any thing that sounds too easy usually is. If the fields are lighted can they play after dark? If the team managers think / plan ahead, can they get to city hall on January 2nd, and book the fields for a prime weekend (or 2) themselves? Just asking; I've never done any of this myself, yet!

As far as concessions, I usually don't spend very much. Between games a few other dads and I schlep out for homemade sandwiches, and a few cold beers, in the car!

As for the fields, it would be very hard to get those away from the current Usssa tournament director.

We cant bring food or drink in to the parks. Believe it or not they check your bags before entering the gate to make sure you are not bring in outside food or drink LMAO.

OCB,
How long are the contracts between the city and the tournament director. They can't have every summer weekend booked in perpetuity - can they?
Also, you don’t have to sneak food into the park, just leave a cooler in the trunk in the parking lot. Between games get your hand stamped, and head to the parking lot for some low-level tailgating. Or hop in the car and go to a bar for lunch. We do that too when the parking lot is closely watched, and the tournament organizers are really ****.
My take is: I’m not going to pay to enter the tournament, pay admission, and let them wring me dry on food and drink. I can’t fix the first two, but I CAN feed my self, my family and my player off-site – been doing it for years.

Down this way, USSSA has basically taken over from AAU. This process has taken about 4 - 5 years. Nations is a start up that is trying to compete in this market. If you look online at what tourneys are making, USSSA has the lion's share. Nation's tourney are barely making, while there are wait lists for USSSA. The general opinion is that USSSA seems to be more competitive - Nations more "feel good".

Nations - I understand - was created by the same man (Lou?) who stared Cooperstown Dreams Park. Does anyone know if this is true? I think he wants to reach more kids and perhaps this is a positive way to do that.

I still wonder what happened to AAU. Son played in many tournaments just four years ago. Now you can't find any. We think that USSSA has been more flexible with fees and insurance than AAU. However, it seems like regional thing too.

I have heard that USSSA is making a big push into the older age groups, 15-18. They are having tournaments at Disney this summer for these ages.

What is your idea of a good tournament?

Good competition.
Attracts top players.
Attracts top teams.
You get Trophys if you win?

If there's no Scout's or Recruitors there to see the competition,
then whats the point of playing in it?

There's 2 ways to look at it, and there both good reasons to play.

One's for having a goodtime and have fun playing in a tournament.
The other's for exposure to the next level.

Scout's and Recruitors are going to the tournament that allows them to see the best competition, there not there for the fun of it.

EH

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
What is your idea of a good tournament?

Good competition.
Attracts top players.
Attracts top teams.
You get Trophys if you win?

If there's no Scout's or Recruitors there to see the competition,
then whats the point of playing in it?

There's 2 ways to look at it, and there both good reasons to play.

One's for having a goodtime and have fun playing in a tournament.
The other's for exposure to the next level.

Scout's and Recruitors are going to the tournament that allows them to see the best competition, there not there for the fun of it.

EH

I've always looked for quality competition on decent fields with decent umpiring. Before 17U don't waste your time looking for scouts in the stands.

Well all the good fields are tied up around here. Usssa doesnt have them. Little League, Babe Ruth and Pony all have the good fields. Usssa has nothing but softball fields for ages 8-12. We all know that the ball hops differently on a softball field than a baseball..LOL, but hey I figure if they can field those balls on softball fields then when they get to hit a real baseball field its cake

quote:

Originally posted by OCB:
Well all the good fields are tied up around here. Usssa doesnt have them. Little League, Babe Ruth and Pony all have the good fields. Usssa has nothing but softball fields for ages 8-12. We all know that the ball hops differently on a softball field than a baseball..LOL, but hey I figure if they can field those balls on softball fields then when they get to hit a real baseball field its cake

My son has always liked the skin infields as long as they're groomed between games. He believes the hops on grounders are cleaner. From a hitting standpoint the ball shoots through the infield faster.

There are very few fields around our area with grass infields, excluding high school fields. Even our LL complex has dirt infields...that's one reason we'll never host a District / State Tournament.

Almost all the fields that we play USSSA and AAU ball on are dirt infields and most are softball fields with portable pitching mounds, and movable bases from 50/70/90

What's the point? The point is playing against great competition to get better. Too many players, families, and teams get too wrapped up in exposure. Is it important? Absolutely! That said, it's about challenging yourself against the best. Compete! Take the right path in the journey and the exposure will take care of itself. It's just part of the package.

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
What is your idea of a good tournament?

Good competition.
Attracts top players.
Attracts top teams.
You get Trophys if you win?

If there's no Scout's or Recruitors there to see the competition,
then whats the point of playing in it?

There's 2 ways to look at it, and there both good reasons to play.

One's for having a goodtime and have fun playing in a tournament.
The other's for exposure to the next level.

Scout's and Recruitors are going to the tournament that allows them to see the best competition, there not there for the fun of it.

EH

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
What is your idea of a good tournament?

Good competition.
Attracts top players.
Attracts top teams.
You get Trophys if you win?

If there's no Scout's or Recruitors there to see the competition,
then whats the point of playing in it?

There's 2 ways to look at it, and there both good reasons to play.

One's for having a goodtime and have fun playing in a tournament.
The other's for exposure to the next level.

Scout's and Recruitors are going to the tournament that allows them to see the best competition, there not there for the fun of it.

EH

I've always looked for quality competition on decent fields with decent umpiring. Before 17U don't waste your time looking for scouts in the stands.

RJM- I don't agree- at least in our area. Sophomores are being recruited in the same recruiting time-line as juniors were five years ago. That's why it's important 15 year old sophomores play with other sophomores.

If a sophomore wants to be seen he should go play in an older age tournament. My son is a 15U eligible playing 16U. He will be playing in a 17U showcase this summer. One thing that bothers me about summer ball now is it seems to be geared to getting to college ball rather than enjoying playing the game.

I'm very happy my son's team is playing in a league in addition to playing tournaments. If they're good enough, at the end of the season they can look back on the success of the entire season. In tournament ball it's about this weekend. If it goes well, great. If not, there's next weekend.

While my son enjoys winning, in his fourth year of 60/90 field travel tournaments, I believe there's only one team his team could beat in a semi or final that would get a rise out of him. Otherwise it's business as usual. The tournament medals are so important, when he gets bored he plays ring toss with them.

RJM..I agree my son is sophmore, will play legion which may not be the best competition but still playing against older players. Some legion teams still has good talent playing for them.

Plus he likes playing with his friends. Will also play for a well regarded 18u travel team to get some exposure.

So there are way to get some exposure but I have been told the real year is their junior year.

NCBall might be right in his area....in CA things might be done differently.

quote:

will play legion which may not be the best competition but still playing against older players. Some legion teams still has good talent playing for them.

In our area Legion ball isn't as good as high school. In most cases the quality players don't play Legion. I heard the Legion district had a meeting last year regarding losing all the best talent to travel.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
If a sophomore wants to be seen he should go play in an older age tournament. My son is a 15U eligible playing 16U. He will be playing in a 17U showcase this summer. One thing that bothers me about summer ball now is it seems to be geared to getting to college ball rather than enjoying playing the game.

I'm very happy my son's team is playing in a league in addition to playing tournaments. If they're good enough, at the end of the season they can look back on the success of the entire season. In tournament ball it's about this weekend. If it goes well, great. If not, there's next weekend.

While my son enjoys winning, in his fourth year of 60/90 field travel tournaments, I believe there's only one team his team could beat in a semi or final that would get a rise out of him. Otherwise it's business as usual. The tournament medals are so important, when he gets bored he plays ring toss with them.

I agree with you regarding the whole tournament thing (I'm talking about the constant weekend $10 trophy ones). We like to set up weekends where we bring in teams we know and just play a round-robin deal over Late Friday through Sunday. We can control it much better. The college coaches and pro scouts like it because they can see players in a game atmosphere- instead of a showcase or tournament situation where things are constantly in flux.

That's not to say there are not some good weekend tournaments. We will either host them or we enter the ones Xtremebb from northern California runs. You can count on things being run professionally and on-time. We use them as kind of like a quiz for homework (practice) and as a tuneup to a national tournament.