There are so many popping up they are competing for business. Maybe not where you are. Constantly busy doesnt mean constantly making a profit, didnt you read kyles post?
So my son got money from the cardinals to finish school. Tuition only, after 20% to pay uncle sam it didnt even cover 1/4 he needed. Thank goodness they had a program to help.
Of course you can go back to school and work at the same time, which will take years.
There's a lot of business-stupid people who love baseball who open facilities. Let's see how many that stay open for 3+ years.
You've got to keep the ovehead low. We went to one guy who rented out a cage (hitting guy rented out the other) in back of an old NAPA store (the old car repair bays). Have also seen where some guy gets some rich dads, in mean investors, together and builds out a facility that will have a hard time making a reasonable return - especially once the investors no longer subsidize the operation (i.e. kids drop out of the game). That guy may actually get a salary draw for a few years but its not really their business to begin with.
Kyle Boddy posted:There's a lot of business-stupid people who love baseball who open facilities. Let's see how many that stay open for 3+ years.
Exactly! Facility dave worked for had 2 partners, one a very rich money guy the other the working partner, who had his own bank account that he put cash in. Both made bad business people.
And, IMO most pro baseball players lack the business sense to be businessmen.
It is true we are all in different parts of the country. Also true that may have an impact. Also true many of these facilities have been around a long time now. Hitters in Racine is going on almost 20 years I think. GRB maybe six? Stiks (ours) in its fourth year and building a new facility. All seem to be doing well. A lot of organizations in Illinois that have been around for quite a long time. Not all field teams either. A kid I coached in high school has had a training facility for a lot of years now. Same with another kid I coached who fields just two teams - both teams he has a kid on so that's the only reason. Both these kids played minor league ball. It is not some insurmountable mountain. Just a living like any other. And yes TPM I read what Kyle said. And what you said. I am a 53 year old reasonable intelligent person capable of making my own observations and forming my own opinions. Again maybe it's different elsewhere but seems to be doing well here.
2020dad posted:It is true we are all in different parts of the country. Also true that may have an impact. Also true many of these facilities have been around a long time now. Hitters in Racine is going on almost 20 years I think. GRB maybe six? Stiks (ours) in its fourth year and building a new facility. All seem to be doing well. A lot of organizations in Illinois that have been around for quite a long time. Not all field teams either. A kid I coached in high school has had a training facility for a lot of years now. Same with another kid I coached who fields just two teams - both teams he has a kid on so that's the only reason. Both these kids played minor league ball. It is not some insurmountable mountain. Just a living like any other. And yes TPM I read what Kyle said. And what you said. I am a 53 year old reasonable intelligent person capable of making my own observations and forming my own opinions. Again maybe it's different elsewhere but seems to be doing well here.
Just a thought, 2020dad -- in my old home state of Pennsylvania, there seem to be a number of baseball facilities nowadays near where I grew up (there were none when I was a kid) with the driver being (1) kids training in baseball in the winter, and (2) probably, greater disposable income per kid than 35 years ago (household income might not be much higher, but average family size is smaller). You've mentioned a number of times that the quality of players coming out of Wisconsin is improving tremendously -- could it be that facilities in cold-weather states are doing better (from Nov. - Mar., your choice is use an indoor facility or nothing), but in warm-weather states it's a harder business, because kids can always play baseball outside?
To echo TPM, here I've seen a couple ex-MLB guys start a facility -- really beautiful, with rent to match -- and end up selling it a couple of years later, and then the new guys shut it down after 18 months. When it rained in winter there were teams clamoring to use it, but during a multi-year drought, teams would just practice outside!
2019Dad posted:2020dad posted:It is true we are all in different parts of the country. Also true that may have an impact. Also true many of these facilities have been around a long time now. Hitters in Racine is going on almost 20 years I think. GRB maybe six? Stiks (ours) in its fourth year and building a new facility. All seem to be doing well. A lot of organizations in Illinois that have been around for quite a long time. Not all field teams either. A kid I coached in high school has had a training facility for a lot of years now. Same with another kid I coached who fields just two teams - both teams he has a kid on so that's the only reason. Both these kids played minor league ball. It is not some insurmountable mountain. Just a living like any other. And yes TPM I read what Kyle said. And what you said. I am a 53 year old reasonable intelligent person capable of making my own observations and forming my own opinions. Again maybe it's different elsewhere but seems to be doing well here.
Just a thought, 2020dad -- in my old home state of Pennsylvania, there seem to be a number of baseball facilities nowadays near where I grew up (there were none when I was a kid) with the driver being (1) kids training in baseball in the winter, and (2) probably, greater disposable income per kid than 35 years ago (household income might not be much higher, but average family size is smaller). You've mentioned a number of times that the quality of players coming out of Wisconsin is improving tremendously -- could it be that facilities in cold-weather states are doing better (from Nov. - Mar., your choice is use an indoor facility or nothing), but in warm-weather states it's a harder business, because kids can always play baseball outside?
To echo TPM, here I've seen a couple ex-MLB guys start a facility -- really beautiful, with rent to match -- and end up selling it a couple of years later, and then the new guys shut it down after 18 months. When it rained in winter there were teams clamoring to use it, but during a multi-year drought, teams would just practice outside!
Yes absolutely that makes total sense to me. And I think other's then also have to realize that in many places these former players do in fact make a good living. But you can't convince me that in the south none of these guys make it!
Whoever said none of these guys never made it?
This wasnt about those guys who made it to free agency and made lots of money.
I know a "guy" who started out renting a facility. Then he formed a few teams. They practiced there and he gave lessons s well. Fast fwd to several years ago and he had worked his way into an arrangement to be a community coach for 6A school and use their facility for his business and travel teams. He now has 10-18U teams and some multiple teams at certain ages. It almost runs itself. I kid about that part but he basically pays ex-players to coach his teams and runs those on a daily basis.
2020dad posted:hshuler posted:Shoveit4Ks posted:Disclaimer: My kid is in college and we thought about the draft last year and had a number to go. He did not get drafted. We are very happy he is in college.
I suspect this 2014 article has been posted previously but it is an interesting read, especially if you don't know the stats and are being courted by MLB teams or facing upcoming draft vs college decisions.
http://www.numberfire.com/mlb/...han-high-school-ones
As it has been said before, you are a commodity unless you are getting a big a$$ check out of high school. Even then, there is a ratio somewhere that allows them to write you off when you aren't producing. Your son is competing with Latin players who are trying to survive/change their family tree, not just chasing the dream of playing pro ball vs attend college and join the workforce.
All that being said, IF my son would have gotten his $$, i would have let him chase his dream, silly huh? Sorry for highjacking the thread.
Not silly at all. I think it just depends on the kid/situation. For some it makes perfect sense to go through pro route and for others the college route is best.
I think the parent and athlete would need to have a serious and pros and cons discussion to see what's best route for the kid...but the decision would be the athlete's and not the parent's, in my opinion.
I think this question draft vs college is more interesting than ever. At first glance it seems obvious. Life changing money or don't go. But now with all these academies springing up everywhere and youth baseball being big business... If you can get a few years of minor league baseball under your belt your credibility (right or wrong - a debate for another time) skyrockets over the person who played college ball. Obviously if you get to the bigs for even a short time your marketability increases immensely again. And you can always get your degree. It's just not as black and white as it may seem.
Heres the original post I responded to.
Just because a guy played bb for a few years in the minors, doesnt mean he can relate to teaching the game. Yea, some people think that makes the credible, its not.
And you cant always go back to school. Add in a wife home with two young kids and its pretty hard to go back to school and earn a living. No you cant always get your degree. But it sure is a bit easier if you only have a semester or 2 left.
Reality is the odds are way against you. The only milb guys who make money are the guys who once put in years in mlb.
I am wondering how many guys will be drafted from Wisconsin next week?
I know a player who was and played a few years in mlb but he went to college first.
gunner34 posted:nothing to add just that this is a great read and Kudos to Kyle for responding to so many questions. Almost like a Q&A session with someone on the cutting edge of pitching and velocity training.
You are right, he doesnt have to respond. But I believe he really tries to set the record straight on a lot of things we discuss. He i a good read and tries real hard to educate.
I am a business stupid person.
PGStaff posted:I am a business stupid person.
But you hired a business smart person to do the financial stuff for you, right?
Dominik85 posted:PGStaff posted:I am a business stupid person.
But you hired a business smart person to do the financial stuff for you, right?
That's exactly the smart decision that Jerry and I both made. 
Kyle Boddy posted:Dominik85 posted:PGStaff posted:I am a business stupid person.
But you hired a business smart person to do the financial stuff for you, right?
That's exactly the smart decision that Jerry and I both made.
Regarding spending for equipment. How much was needed and how much of it was being a tech-a-holic?
Impossible to split the two. I've made a lot of silly personal purchases but the vast majority were due to real need for research tools.
Kyle, would you consider doing research on batting with your equipment too? I would be interested whether hip rotation speed correlates with bat or exit speed, or whether it is like in pitching were the hip rotation has little direct correlation on accelerating the arm, I. E. The hip opening is not pulling forward the arm but stretching the trunk and chest muscles.
I wonder why batters land more closed and whether it would make sense to open the hips earlier in batting too. Or is batting different because it is relational?
Just because a guy played bb for a few years in the minors, doesnt mean he can relate to teaching the game. Yea, some people think that makes the credible, its not.
Response: we are on the same page here I said his credibility goes up and parenthetically states right or wrong because I also believe that is not a safe presumption but most do
And you cant always go back to school. Add in a wife home with two young kids and its pretty hard to go back to school and earn a living. No you cant always get your degree. But it sure is a bit easier if you only have a semester or 2 left.
Response: if you sign for 4mil bonus have all the kids you want. My statement was more geared to the 20th round pick signing for a $5000 bonus and a pack of sunflower seeds if this guy decides to get married and have two kids on a minor league salary I am afraid I can not help him. If you are smart and delay those life decisions a few years then just like a friend of mine did you can go get your education a few years late - oh and I believe I mentioned before I did not get my degree til age 27 you certainly can always get an education
Reality is the odds are way against you. The only milb guys who make money are the guys who once put in years in mlb.
Response: the passage was about making money AFTER the brief minor league career.
I am wondering how many guys will be drafted from Wisconsin next week?
Response: Not sure how this is relevant?? Perhaps it's just question. My answer is... I don't know.
I know a player who was and played a few years in mlb but he went to college first.
Response: if that is what was best for him then that is exactly what he should have done. But it's not what is best for everyone. Everyone has to make their own decision based on their life goals and what's right for them.
2020,
My responses to you have nothing to do with millionares. Its about those guys who more than likely will never see a ML field.
I was with a teammate of sons this weekend. He got drafted, never got his degree, has 2 kids. His response was that he has to earn a living now to support his family. These guys have good jobs but realize their earning capacity is limited.
My initial response was in reference to your post about former players who could return and make a living in baseball from playing pro ball. Very far and few between do these guys become successful because they dont really have the money to sustain themselves. Former major leaguers yes. I think Kyle addressed that in his responses as well.
FWIW just about all of the websters who post here whose sons got drafted were out of college. Maybe a hand full who got some nice money didnt go.
Its a personal decision. Do your homework first. Dont take advice from anyone who has never been in this situation. My advice and more importantly is be careful what you wish for.
Regarding indoor facilities. Some are successful but most just get by enough to survive. Many go out of business.
We have had an indoor facility for 21 years. Not once has it had a year that showed a profit. It has lost money for 21 consecutive years. At the same time it has benefitted many young players and that is why we started it in the first place. There should always be a reason besides just making money.
I have never given advice to any family when it comes to signing or going to college. I did once advise a kid and his family that he should play baseball rather than football in college because I thought he had a better future in baseball. That was quite awhile before he won a couple Super Bowls and became a legendary QB... Kurt Warner. So much for advice! We need a crystal ball in order to give completely accurate advice about some things.
People are going to do what they want to do. There is no guarantee that a kid signing a pro contract and never making it to the Big Leagues is going to be a success or a failure in life. Truth is there is no guarantee that a kid going to college will be a success or a failure. There are only the odds and those odds are different from one person to the next. In most cases the individual creates his or her own odds.
Local place to me is always packed. it is a very large tin shed (VERY LARGE). Three lanes for pitching, 2 lanes for BP, and the other half of the place is football/speed and agility. When it rains, and in GA that happens a LOT, practice is moved to there for $50 per half hour 
CaCO3Girl posted:Local place to me is always packed. it is a very large tin shed (VERY LARGE). Three lanes for pitching, 2 lanes for BP, and the other half of the place is football/speed and agility. When it rains, and in GA that happens a LOT, practice is moved to there for $50 per half hour
Just because a place is packed doesnt mean they are making money unless you a have someone subsidizing your expenses and you have alternate means of making a living (see PGs post).
I mean walmart is packed every weekend but they claim they dont make a profit.
Dominik85 posted:Kyle, would you consider doing research on batting with your equipment too? I would be interested whether hip rotation speed correlates with bat or exit speed, or whether it is like in pitching were the hip rotation has little direct correlation on accelerating the arm, I. E. The hip opening is not pulling forward the arm but stretching the trunk and chest muscles.
I wonder why batters land more closed and whether it would make sense to open the hips earlier in batting too. Or is batting different because it is relational?
We hired the Menlo hitting coach (Jason Ochart) who coached the team and led them to 2nd in NAIA in HR hit per game. He starts in February and he is very research / data-driven himself. So maybe you'll get your wish!
After a two-run homer in the 8th by ULL, #Arizona finally pulls Nathan Bannister. He threw 198 pitches Friday/today combined.
Some things never change. This was reported by Kendall Rogers of D1 baseball. I would highly suggest that all you pitchers and parents research the program's your son is considering to see how they treat their pitchers.
Well said, do your homework!
Everyone keeps looking for a reason. Isn't it obvious what the biggest cause for arm injury is?
In every Case I can think of where over use and/or lack of recovery time happens it is because of ONE thing. Winning a game or winning a championship. Sadly enough it happens a lot in the youngest age groups.
Why else would anyone ride their best pitcher until he breaks?
PGStaff posted:Everyone keeps looking for a reason. Isn't it obvious what the biggest cause for arm injury is?
In every Case I can think of where over use and/or lack of recovery time happens it is because of ONE thing. Winning a game or winning a championship. Sadly enough it happens a lot in the youngest age groups.
Why else would anyone ride their best pitcher until he breaks?
South Carolina left their starter in over 100+ pitches in the 7th and he threw 120+ in a non-conference game where they were winning by 21 runs.
Some people just don't get it regardless of the stage it's on.
for all of the talk about how great the SEC is, If Rice pulls this game out today they will have only 3 teams advance to supers (same as the big 12). Florida and A&M do look really tough though.
gunner34 posted:for all of the talk about how great the SEC is, If Rice pulls this game out today they will have only 3 teams advance to supers (same as the big 12). Florida and A&M do look really tough though.
Do people understand how difficult the road to Omaha is?
Plus this power conference has to play each other once again a week before regionals for their league championships.
gunner34 posted:for all of the talk about how great the SEC is, If Rice pulls this game out today they will have only 3 teams advance to supers (same as the big 12). Florida and A&M do look really tough though.
Does that mean you're absolutely sure South Carolina will lose today?
I didn't hear much talk this year about how great the SEC is, but there was some talk about how the bottom half of the conference dropped off. I thought the story this year was the top-to-bottom quality of the ACC, which pulled down ten bids despite UNC earning the dubious honor of being the highest-RPI team ever excluded from the 64-team field.
As a fan whose primary loyalty is to a team in a one-bid conference, I don't particularly care which power conference is on top in any given year.
Those who do care about such things may want to remember that baseball is a game of small differences over the long haul. Anything can happen in a four-team double elimination regional, and anyone who makes generalizations about conference strength from one weekend of play is on shaky ground.
Regardless of how the unfinished regionals turn out, all 16 super-regional participants will have RPI's in the top 30, so I don't think this weekend radically upset conventional wisdom. Some favored teams stumbled, but their places were taken by teams that were known to be pretty good.
