Velocity Decrease

Is he working with a knowledgeable trainer?  Working hard is great, if you know what to work on. Sometimes you can find all (strength and pitching) in one place, sometimes you need to go to separate places. Given his injury history, if it were my son I'd have him with an experienced strength coach that can do a proper assessment and go from there.

Yes, he's working with a reputable trainer and a pitching coach. Something just feels off and I can't put my finger on it whether its arm fatigue, injury, mechanical issue. He has a strong, accurate arm from the outfield but something's not translating to the mound. Don't know. August will be telling I think. I guess the bottom line is if he's pitching pain free and he enjoys it keep working. The velocity will come or it won't but he can become a better pitcher as long as he's pain free. 

I dont know about the velo issue - too many variables (e.g., mechanics, conditioning, impingement, mentally refusing to throw hard for fear of the walk, etc.), for an educated guess and not actually seeing his delivery, but it's not true that D3 schools have a uniform lowish 80s "requirement."

For example, in your area, several years ago I watched and gunned the series between Catholic University and the US Merchant Marine Academy. Catholic had a pitcher touching upper 80s; most were touching low 80s. USMMA had a few sitting low 80s, the rest were in upper 70s.

Neither are D3 baseball powers, but, USMMA turns out certified engineers with near 100% post graduate employment beginning near 6 figures.

If your son isn't heading to D1 baseball, first, go watch a local D3 game to see velos, second look for D3s which could be good academic fits (e.g., USMMA isn't for everyone). Many D3s (those which aren't baseball powers) don't even carry 30 kids (USMMA had 20 that series).

Good luck and welcome to the site.

Thanks. I think I have a good sense of velos for each level. Was just saying to even be in consideration he needs to hit those numbers for the schools he wants to try to go to, DIII or otherwise. I think he needs to just keep working and be patient (and I have to be patient, too). Come his HS spring season, we'll see where he's at and make a call over his junior summer as to whether to keep pursuing things. Just hard to see him struggle when he's working so hard. The bright side: he's pitched great this summer so far. Walking almost no one, secondary stuff is strong, but its his fastball that's lagging and getting hit but the pitching results are very good. Thanks for the input.

"Walking almost no one. . ."

FWIW, my son was a lowish velo LHP with control and great secondary stuff. He just wouldn't let the ball fly - because all his coaches preached control and no walks.

We found a PC whose philosophy was velo. After the mechanical adjustments were underway, PC ordered S to find concrete walls, stand somewhat close (30ish feet), and simply throw hard using the mechanical adjustments without caring where the ball would strike the wall. Was a pretty amazing transformation - as he went from mid-70s to low 80s almost instantly.

I am convinced that to throw hard you must mentally want to throw hard (assuming mechanics and conditioning allow). Making the mental transition is not as easy as it seems; son didn't pitch in games for a while as this mental process took hold.

I would agree with goosegg.  My son is consistently upper 80's even 100 pitches in.  He goes from 83-88 but can jump up or down at will.  He will not let it go even though he has been gunned at 93 on a throw from infield.  His claim to fame for him is no walks.  He had 438 strikeouts to only 56 walks but he would never let loose in a showcase, tournament or game.  He never wanted to take a chance of throwing a ball.  But he was consistently at the 88-89 range in the games or showcases.  I think it is mental many times but it can also be some kind physical issue.  I would definitely have him checked to make sure there is nothing wrong physically that is keeping it from happening. 

I would not be going to showcases throwing in the 70s.

I know many pitching coaches that do not use radar guns.  I would never use them.  Most of these guys just make you feel good and you don't get any faster.

You don't need to add 10-15 lbs to get in the 80s.  It won't hurt, but it's not holding him back.

He could have technique issues. In which case your pitching coach should have already identified what the problem is and be working to fix it.  It sounds like that's not happening.  I would consider getting someone else.

He could have health issues.  Are you seeing a PT or sports doc that can monitor him?

The only thing I've noticed and the pitching coach has noticed is he really collapses over his front leg after release. He's been working on trying to pop over his front leg. I think he's cutting himself off some. We're aware of what's going on with his shoulder (loose ligaments/instability) but he reports no pain or discomfort. Could be a combo of just starting intense workouts, trying new mechanics and a lot of change. At least that's what I hope. Trust me, the plan wasn't to take him to showcases in the mid 70s. I overestimated his velo (like a lot of Dad's do) before PG but the latest drop really took me by surprise. 

I agree with Sultan. Going to a showcase with those numbers aren't going to help him any. If anything, it will stamp a 70's label on him that sometimes is hard to shake. Stay home and work on getting that velo up for the next showcase.

72 - Welcome to the site.

Hill Sachs lesion?  Really?  Was it from a dislocation or from throwing? Your son is only the second HS player I have heard of with that condition; my son is the first. 

Is it very very minor? My son got that diagnosis when he was a HS Freshman, after two years of intermittent  shoulder pain and having been diagnosed previously with impingement and instability.  He was told that he could only continue playing baseball if he could modify his throwing motion so that the humeral head didn't continue to abrade the lesion and make it worse.  He did, but that meant becoming a side-arm, short-arm thrower and it ended his days as a pitcher.

My son was diagnosed in the summer following his freshman HS season. To our knowledge, he has never dislocated his throwing shoulder so we assume it's from throwing or genetics (my wife's brother's have shoulder issues). I asked about arm slot changes and was told that wouldn't help. Did your Docs say anything about the instability capping velocity? That's what I can't get my head around. My son has no pain currently, no issues, but I don't know if the laxity prevents him from throwing harder. They didn't say if the lesion was major or minor. Two doctors told him he could keep pitching and it seemed there concern was innings load rather than velocity drops, or maybe the two are connected. Thanks for replying. It's good (not really good since that stinks for your son) to hear from someone that has a kid with something similar. Any other thoughts or advice since you've been through this before?

Hmm... interesting.  I never saw or heard anything about genetics causing it.  Our sports med doctor and the first orthopedist my son saw had never heard of throwing causing this injury and they seemed convinced that he must have had an undiagnosed dislocation, but we finally saw a guy who had trained with Dr. Andrews' institute, and he consulted with them and they said that they had seen adult guys with loose shoulders develop such lesions, but never someone so young.   As it was explained to me the lesion is caused by bone-on-bone contact, either by dislocation or during the throwing motion, so continuing to throw would make the lesion worse.  But in my son's case there was pain. If your son doesn't experience any pain then, well, maybe there's no concern. My advice would be to monitor that closely -- if you Google it you'll see that the repair surgery for this injury is not anything you'd want your son to experience.  I would also see about getting a consult from doc with deep baseball experience.  If you contact Dr. Fleisig at ASMI.org he will give you some names in your area.  I would also get some Jaeger bands if you don't have them already and/or work with a physical therapist on tightening up that looseness.  As for velo, I don't know.  As has been said he doesn't have the MPH's to impress anyone quite yet.  At this point I'd worry more about his health than that.

... oh and one other thing.  If he lifts he should stop doing any overhead presses

I’d hold off on showcases and find the best trainer/PT in your area and address his movement quality and strength first. PC might be in the back seat for a while unless he’s got good kinesthetic awareness.

Once a number goes by his name it doesn’t come off.

Go to work and create something worth showcasing. There’s plenty of time and it’s not always going to go according to a plan.  If he busts his tail and continues to develop someone will give him an opportunity.   

Thanks for the input all. He is working out with a professional trainer. Has J-bands. But maybe he should go back to PT. We'll see. I already paid for the showcase in August, so we'll go, but after that we'll hold off and wait and see if the velo gets close to where it needs to be. He says he feels healthy, but we'll keep a close eye on it. Surgery is not worth it, for sure. I know it's a beast. 

BaseballDad72 posted:

I already paid for the showcase in August

I got a credit on one.

Yup, most I am aware of will at least give a credit toward a future showcase.  Being a P, if you explain he may be going through complications with a recently diagnosed arm issue to his pitching arm, I would be very surprised if they don't offer options.

Collapsing over the front leg will cause you to loose power and can cause arm injuries. I would get with a PC who is good on bio mechanics.