Velocity Gains Post Maturity

22and25,

Interesting question.  In short, my observations are my oldest son topped out when he hit college capable of hitting low-90s when he wanted to, or the situation called for it.  He was more of a 4-pitch guy and was about control and throwing his pitch in any count.   I don't think he ever threw mid-90s in college.

He did have a very good pitching coach that he took regular lessons from 11 to 18 years old.  He did very little weight training in high school.  He did run (sprints) regularly.  College weight training added 15-20lbs in his legs & butt and did regular band work for upper body.  All the college off-field training seemed to be more about endurance and maintenance than about increasing velocity.

Just my observations.

@fenwaysouth  Do you know his velocity in HS and had he stopped growing at that point?  Was he 90 in HS then stayed there or was he 86 and picked up 4 mph in college when he started lifting?  

22and25 - I would put his pitching velocity differential at 2 mph between high school and college.  Yes, he was touching 90 in high school when he was being recruited across D1s and D3s.  I think he picked up a couple mph in college to increase the high water mark, but he was not a velo guy at 6'1" 185 lbs.  He did gain 15-20 lbs and possibly an inch in height between high school and college.   He had a devastating change up (any pitch count) that made his fastball look faster.  Certainly the weight training, band work and constant pitch coaching in college helped mechanics, and increase his velocity a couple mphs. 

Son was 88-92 in HS and was 92-93 up to 96 in college. Today in Milb he is 92-94 and up to 95-96. when healthy. HS was a stalker gun for that data and college was the various stadium guns and scouts guns.

What’s post maturity? Post puberty? When they stop growing and filling out?

My son was a physical late bloomer in that he went from 5’4” 120 in 8th grade to 5’11” 135 freshman year. Then the filling out process started. Other sports probably kept his weight down despite the workouts. He was 160 soph year of high school. He was 6’1” 175 and looked like a point guard when he graduated. By soph year of college he was 6’2” 190. But he threw hard for his size before he started growing. In college there was a focus on workouts and gaining weight and strength.

I would say his max velocity increased about 5 mph every year from the time he was 12 and 5’ 90 maxing about 65 mph. When he was 5’11” 135 he was up to 80. Numbers were tracked more closely by varsity. Soph year at 6’ 160 he cruised 82/83 and maxed 85. Junior year he cruised 87/88 and maxed 90 at 6’1” 170. Senior year was about getting his arm back to speed after shoulder separation surgery. He stopped pitching after high school. In college he reached 94/95 from the outfield charging the ball and cutting loose.

I couldn’t tell you if the increased velocity from the outfield in college was just cutting loose from the outfield, physical development, growth or more recovery from separated shoulder surgery.

@RJM I took a stab at defining post maturity in my OP, done growing, growth plates closed, etc…. It sounds like maybe that didn’t happen for your son until very late HS and possibly into college having put on an additional inch after HS.

My 2022 is done growing and entering the filling out stage.  He is 6’2 closing in on 190lbs after losing a bunch of weight last summer/fall, down from 185lbs to 160lbs due to illness.  I think he will continue to add muscle up to another 10-15lbs.  Velo is mostly upper 80’s with plenty of 90 and 91 mixed into his outings.  It seems like he has some velo gains left as he adds some more strength and smooths out a few things but who knows, just curious what others have experienced in the phase of pitcher development.

Any velocity gains post maturity will be the result of learning how to better use the lower half of the body during the pitching delivery.

That’s a pretty strong statement.  Are you suggesting that anyone with efficient lower half mechanics and full maturity is at their peak velocity?  No other gains to be found?

I agree with adbono.  Any major velo gains after maturity, above 2-3 mph, will be because of changing motion or learning how to use body better but I don't think you see major ones.  Garrett Crochet, White Sox and former Tennessee lhp, added 16 mph in college but they revamped total mechanics and throwing motion.  Came in at mid 80's and left topping 103 but that is the freak.  Perfect Game has him topping 87 but that was the top he ever threw I'm told.  Normally 84-85.

@22and25 posted:

That’s a pretty strong statement.  Are you suggesting that anyone with efficient lower half mechanics and full maturity is at their peak velocity?  No other gains to be found?

There are always exceptions to everything. But for most pitchers that’s the way to make a significant gain. Very few amateur pitchers get the most out of their lower half. Using the lower half properly is the biggest difference maker in creating more momentum - which translates into more velocity. It’s not the only factor but it’s the most important one.

2020 RHP son is 6'5" and 215lb's. If he is anything like his brother, he still might have an inch of growth left, but who knows. He was/is not a flame thrower. SR year of HS he topped out at 82. Freshmen year of college, he sat 82-83 topped out at 84/85. Son went to TBR, did two years of DL and the velo just did not jump. He has worked out for 4-5 years now also. He's had 4 pitching coaches since he was 12yo. They have ALL had a positive impact, they just never impacted his velo. Started working with a personal trainer this past May until last week. He is now sitting 85/86 and topping out at 88. The trainer, who is baseball specific, fixed his lower half. That was all it took. Son is confident he will be a 90+ in the next couple years. To answer the original question, I believe my son has reached or is close to growth maturity. His new found understanding of his body and how to sequence his mechanics are going to add velocity. This is where "mental" maturity is and will have the greatest impact on his fastball.

To be clear, I am not expecting or hoping for some huge velo jump to 100mph.  @adbono response was one of the things that gave me pause about posting the topic in the first place as I was afraid the thread would devolve into a mechanics theory discussion.

My hope was to get some real world anecdotes about what to expect from a mature pitcher going into college in terms of additional gains.  My theory going in is that he is within a few miles per hour of his ceiling and the floor will rise up closer to his current max.  Any big gains after this point would be attributed to substantial physical gains or substantial  mechanical changes, neither of which I think will happen.

This is super timely for us. Son was about 190 and 6'1 or so, hitting 90, but sitting around 88 coming out of high school. He worked out regularly in high school, but of course that went to a new level in college. His sister also was studying dietetics and I think she offered some input on diet.

Over three years in college, he has gone to 6'3, 220 — only a little of which I attribute to the normal exaggerations on a lineup sheet — with velocity going up to about 88-91.

This summer, we started to see some 93s off the radar gun at his Northwoods League games.

After freshman year, they did retool his motion to a degree due to worry that he was heading for an arm injury. The college coaches suggested it and the longtime pitching coach in town that helped us out throughout recruiting agreed. But I've wondered if that impacted his velocity because everyone (college coaches) seems to agree that he should have more velocity considering his size, strength and mechanics.

The reason this is timely is the school is sending him today to a momentum lab to assess the whole package and see if they can figure out what's holding him back and how to get him another two or three mph. They do a mobility lab each year, but apparently this is different in some way. HIs PC is actually a PhD in biomechanics so I'm super curious to see what, if anything, they learn and how they put that information to use, and more importantly, if it shows up in his numbers this spring.

I think he will be a great test subject for your question. I'll report back when we learn more.

@Iowamom23 that is very interesting info.  Do you think your son grew 2 inches after HS?  I will be very interested to see what the movement assessments says for your son and if they identify any areas of opportunity.  

I think probably at least an inch to an inch and a half? Mostly he just seems bigger all over and he was pretty developed in high school. And my guess is they measure him with cleats on now. :-)

I'm interested to see what they come up with as well. Part of what apparently confuses them is he has very good mechanics, so they can't figure out why he doesn't throw harder. I also love the fact that instead of just saying here's what he is and it's not bad or just telling him to throw harder, they're willing to put time and money into figuring out the science behind making him better.

He's coming home for a bit after the lab today. I'm eager to hear all about it.

Listen to Adbono and pitchingfan..

after maturity any additional velo will mainly come from proper mechanics and maximizing lower half (which most don't ever do)

places like Driveline etc.. are invaluable for maximizing this -post maturity .

@12changeup posted:

Listen to Adbono and pitchingfan..

after maturity any additional velo with mainly come from proper mechanics and maximizing lower half (which most don't ever do)

places like Driveline etc.. are invaluable for maximizing this -post maturity .

Thanks, my son and my check book are very familiar with Driveline😀  I think today was a “Hybrid B” day…..

Your profile says your son is a sophomore pitcher in college.  Do you mind sharing what his velocity curve looked like after he stopped growing and what his training history was like pre and post maturity?

@22and25 posted:

Thanks, my son and my check book are very familiar with Driveline😀  I think today was a “Hybrid B” day…..

Your profile says your son is a sophomore pitcher in college.  Do you mind sharing what his velocity curve looked like after he stopped growing and what his training history was like pre and post maturity?

Sure..  Senior in HS 6'2 ish 175 RHP  touched 90  mostly 86-88 . Fresh College -redshirted after limited to no velo gain and 20 lbs gain

this year-  6'3" 205 velo "going in reverse" until Driveline in March . Did Online driveline and got 2 mph pretty quick.  went up to seattle late june. Transferred to new school this summer. Now he touches 92 and mostly sitting 89-91 .. Still has  lower body issues..but is working on it. Very quick arm. "If" his lower half ever catches up he will be mid 90's.. big if though.