Velocity of pitcher in high school

As hard as he can while throwing strikes.

 

Sorry to be sarcastic in my answer but these posts looking for absolute answers are just mind numbing. "Are my kid's measurables good enough for him to play in D-1"? "Am I throwing hard enough as an 8th grader to be on track to pitch for Vanderbilt"? People, I hate to break it to all of you but there are no absolutes and no one can tell you over a message board that your kid can or can't play college baseball. What if they tell you "no, your measurables suck and you should quit baseball". Do you need to be defined by what a bunch of strangers on this board tell you??? 

The only secret to becoming successful at baseball is HARD WORK. That's it (and yes I know they need good mechanics and fundamentals too). Hard work and improvement over time. Some kids will throw harder earlier on but it doesn't matter. Colleges don't care about your kid until they are junior in HS. There are exceptions of course, and those kids will be the top prospects in your town, county state, etc. the rest of the guys who are good enough to play at the next level will most likely commit sometime during their junior or senior year. You're velocity at 12 yrs old means nothing!!!! 

Most every kid says they want to play college baseball or play in the MLB. That's awesome and they should be encouraged to reach their goal. However, the vast majority of kids won't put the time and effort into doing the things it takes to reach that goal. VERY rarely is a kid that talented that he can just show up and be that good. Most, if not all, have out worked 99.9% of their peers and that's why they are playing at the next level. 

So when you are trying to project your kid at 10 years old just tell him to keep working harder then anyone he knows. Throw long toss, take extra ground balls, take extra swings, etc. Do something EVERYDAY to get better. Some kids will have to work harder and longer but the common denominator is hard work.  

 

Lastly, don't let ANYONE define you or your son. If he wants to play then he needs to ignore the "experts" about what he projects to be and do whatever (within the rules of course) to reach that goal. 

 

Sorry for for the rant but just can't take these kinds of questions anymore. 

 

The Rover (drops mic and walks off)

Doesn't exist.  You throw hard, you improve skills, you get stronger, hope you've got growth, and out work everyone else.

PG profiles can show you varied ranges if you profile enough kids throughout their HS careers. Everybody has a different physical make up and attitude.  

How does a 5'10 Marcus Stroman for Toronto throw the speed he does?  What was he throwing when he was 14?  Who knows, do you want to care? You don't want to care and be limited by someone else.  

Do your thing.

 

I know a kid who was throwing 75 in LL. He never lost a game in season and in tournament play. He made it as far as JV ball throwing 78 as a soph. Then he blew out his arm.

 

Another kid I know entered at D3 throwing 82. Four years later he was throwing 93 in the minors.

 

A good friend of mine was 5'6" entering high school. He entered college at 6'4". He played basketball for two years before focusing on baseball and becoming an All American and high draft pick.

 

You can't predict what will become of a younger kid. If a kid loves the game and wants it badly enough he will find his potential. There's nothing wrong if it's a competitive D3.

 

Edited for iPad auto incorrect

I think you dropped the mic and walked off on a 14 year old.  Nice.

Hey Ball Player, there are lots of threads on velocity, in fact, probably more than any other topic.  There was one on this exact subject a couple weeks ago.  the "Velocity" subject gets a lot of people posting.  Use the search function to find old threads.

 

Good luck and keep working hard.

 As mentioned above any responses are unique to the posters kid but i can tell you where mine was thru HS.

 

Frosh: 78-81

Soph:  84-86

Junior  89-93

Sr       90-95 (had appendectomy which kept him from throwing for 12 weeks in fall)

 

 

You can google a players name followed by baseball profile and see what they did throughout their perfect game appearances. That will give you a pretty good idea of what they did at various ages.

 

Good luck,

 

Ted

Maybe...maybe a parent asking another dumb question about velocity as well...These questions are ridiculous...go to a palm reader and get the same quality of answer...And people put answers on here like that will help them...If it was a 14 year old then it really doesn't matter...learn to throw as hard as you can...period..end of story.

A lot of experienced people on this board taking time to share and provide perspective for players and parents. Lets try to keep a positive tone.

My reply was positive and more helpful then giving useless answers that don't do anything to help. Not sure how "work hard and don't let others define you" is a negative message. If I just made up velocity numbers that would be better?

Not so much the message, but the tone...

 

Remember, this poster didn't ask the question 100 times.  He asked it once.  

I knew your son threw really hard, but I hadn't seen his progression before. Very, very impressive improvement over the years. I'm sure it took a lot of hard work and a tremendous amount of athleticism. Kudos to him!

That's some serious progression.  Sounds like a kid that went from 5'9 to 6'5...

14 year old wisconsin guy?????  Did my son sneak on here lol.  Hey kid come on back here and we will be happy to help you out.  Good chance I know of you if you play on a good travel team in wisconsin.  Block out the negative and let us help you to your goals.  My son is yo Ir age and is about 70.  He is in his down time now and we are hoping he will make his big jump this year and push 80 as a 14.  But even if he makes his 6 or 7 mph (8 last year) we will be happy with upper 70's at 14u.  Generally the benchmark for recruitment seems to be mid 80's after soph year and upper 80's after junior year.  But as discussed here many times if you really just want to play college ball anywhere anything north of 80 can give you a shot.

Not advocating a PC board here and the majority of what you said was constructive, w no BS.  Tone was off putting to a newcomer telling them the question was ridiculous.  We don't have to sugar coat things but lets be respectful with our tone.  

Fair enough...Probably a bit harsh but it was an answer to a bunch of these posts looking for these unknowable answers and the pontificators who act as the all-knowing...

Understood, I do get what you're talking about.

Enjoy the Friday!

2020, are your boys involved with Rawlings Hitters at all?  RJ Fergus seems to really be involved to get his guys on the radar.  (i.e., Chicago Scouts Assoc) 

Ball Player,

 

You asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has ever thrown a baseball wonders how hard they throw (or their player throws) compared to their peers.

 

When you ask your question with the conditional verb "should be", it makes the question hard to answer. That answer depends on the goals and expectations of the player. If you want to know what the average is for a given grade then that answer is attainable but it does have a large variation around the average. Probably something on the order of

 

freshmen     68-75

sophomore  70-77

Junior         73-80

Senior         75-84

 

The average is probably somewhere in those ranges for my area and may be different for your area.

 

Let us know if you have a particular goal in mind and hopefully we can help you get there.

 

Good luck,

 

Ted

 

Where's Carnac The Magnificent when we need him?

These averages are reasonably accurate. But average doesn't get a kid far in terms of getting to college ball.

I'll take The Rover's response over Shoveit4k's response when addressing a 14 yo (not that Shoveit4k's was being trying to be harmful but 95 max senior year is top percentiles, not average).  Perhaps someone could write a standard response for these type questions starting with "It depends....".  Maybe talk about the post-pubescent kid that throws 80 as a 14 yo and doesn't work hard versus the pre-pubescent kid throwing 65, has yet to develop significantly but works his tail off (and maybe gets to 95 his senior year).  With the vast range of maturity levels at 14 along with some major geographical differences (NorthDakota versus California), there are no real averages - so why try to craft some.  If the kid wants to know what other kids in a particular area are throwing, that is a factual question and that info should be shared but should also include a caveat that at age 14 and below, the averages are largely meaningless when it comes to how any individual kid will perform in 24-36 months if they put in the work.

I was just asking a simple question of what outsiders thought about velocity for high school pitchers and was interested in there responses, so the tone wasn't needed but I appreciated your response as well.    

Rover, by any chance were you raised in "THE NORTH"?  I was, and I found nothing wrong with your answer...then again, refer to above statement of being raised where sugar coating is only done to candy, not words.

Ball Player - you will finds some folks on here that truly want to protect kids and families and will often provide some very direct responses.  If you stick around for awhile or go back and read some old threads, you will see this happening.  I will point out that it is not any type of competitive thing - some of the poster's kids have long since ended their baseball careers - some ended in the MLB.  The whole velocity race, especially when applied to younger kids, usually gets a candid response.  Even when asked out of curiosity, some posters will assume you are heading down the dreaded velocity trap.  PG has some very good data at the class level and provides percentiles.  The data may not be perfect (they are looking into whether it may include some age data where a current 2016 SS may have thrown a couple of innings back in 2013 for instance).  That said, the percentiles at 75% and above are probably pretty accurate.  You might also pay attention to geography.  You can subscribe and gets lots of data at your fingertips or you can browse through some tournaments and pick out some kids individually to get a feel for averages.

Yes, I am afflicted with the dreaded "blunt talk" disease. I just can't understand how parents or players come to this site to find out if they have potential. Allowing yourself to be defined by others is a rough way to go through life...If you have a dream to play, then work hard and make your own way.

       
       
No we are not.  Know some of those kids and they do a nice job there.  We are with stiks.  Our hs age teams play hitters all the time and our owner/operator has a really good working relationship with RJ.  We even share the same strength and fitness guy now.  Profile says you are from northern illinois...  so are a lot of the hitters kids!  They are a strong organization.  Our organization being further northwest is all wisconsin kids but also a strong organization.

Hmmmm. must be Friday the 13th

I can only speak for myself, I came on here last year when my kid was in 7th grade.   I think many of these players/parents are searching for a validation of sorts, but also advice.  I haven't run across a baseball recruitment for dummies book and now I understand it is because everyone's journey is unique.  However, when I joined I was looking for a plan, and looking to see if I should even bother with a plan.

 

I now know if my senior RH kid wants to pitch in college and sits at 81, well, probably not a likely scenario. People may also want validation for the time and money spent on elite teams...is it worth it, does my kid have what it takes? I personally don't share with my kid what's on this site, but others may be looking for legitimate goals for their player, or maybe encouragement.  "You are fine being in 9th grade and throwing 79, it's actually really good, did you know that when Brady Aiken was in 9th grade his range was 80-85? and he's a millionaire now, so work harder if that's what you want."

Don't Let the Number On the Radar Gun Hold You Back - You CAN Do Something About it. It's Time to Get to Work!

My response was just a dad who has a kid who pitches. He worked hard, didnt really listen to people who talked about his smaller size (Now 5'10.5") in college as a freshman and pitches with a chip on his shoulder. I know the numbers are upper percentile and i also know he has always had a good arm, i just wanted to post his figures as they were relative to the OP request.

 

The funny thing is, velocity is KING and what everybody is measured on ..maybe not exclusively but almost exclusively, but when you do post upper percentile numbers consistently, they find ways to knock you down if you don't fit the acceptable profile and define you as a "max effort" guy which is NOT good in the business. To each his own, he's fortunate and we'll enjoy the rest of the ride...wherever that takes us. 

That's a little tough to answer.  The guy at you go pro has given some numbers for averages, but he got his numbers from guys he was training.  So, those guys likely 1. had skill and 2. had been refining those skills.  These are probably higher level guys so those numbers are probably a bit skewed. Nationwide averages are actually probably surprisingly low.  In fact, a coach told us a few weeks ago that at a large and competitive high school nearby they like for freshmen to be throwing at least 70mph.  We were stunned, as my son was 75-78 (mostly 75) last year as a freshman and there were 4 or so other freshmen on his team who threw around that or harder.   But, Ball Player, I don't think that you want to be average...do you. 

 

A lot also depends upon your size and whether you get everything out of your body.  My son was 5'11" 135 last year.  Most everyone else was pretty significantly bigger and heavier than him.  Shoot, a Jr. was 6'1" 220.  Nevertheless, he threw as hard or harder than most of these guys.   He is going to grow and develop, and he's also working on mechanical changes that are adding extra mph.  One can kind of look at him and tell that he's got good stuff, even though he's not 6'3" 180 kind of good stuff yet.  

 

What does your growth projection look like?  Are you smaller, but expect to hit a growth spurt?  How about your mom and dad?  What's their size?  Grandparent's sizes?  Was your dad a "late-bloomer?"   You see, if your 14 and 5'2" 110lbs throwing 64, you may not have elite speed for your age, but it is strong for your size.  By the time you're a junior perhaps you're 6'2" 175.  Now you're blowing some pretty good stuff in there.

 

Look to the future and decide where you want to be and what you want to do.  Know that someone has posted on one of the threads that if you want to be a high D1 player you need to sit 88+  Mid to lower D1 86-87+  Div. 2, Div. 3 NAIA, Juco, 81-84+  Do you want to go to a small academic school?  Then it may take less.  Do you want to go to Vandy?  Then it's going to take more.

 

Keep working hard, brother.

 

 

It seems in all these threads about high school velocity this happens....

How fast should I be throwing at 16?

"I have a friend/son/grandson who is 15 and sits 89 touching 92 with spot control....he is 5' 6" and 160 lbs."

"I watched a D1 game last year on ESPN with a pitcher who was sitting 78...."

 

Both statement may be true but neither are anywhere near the norm.  Seems strange to use outliers as examples when someone is asking a question about averages.  

For some reason this is where the conversation usually goes.

Of course, it is impossible to give an average.

First thing I think any kid could do is to do an honest evaluation of where they are now.  What is their size, what is their velo, how do they perform, what is the level of competition.  Next, go to college games.  Find games at local JCs, D2's, D3's, D1's....watch for control, velo, and pitch quality. There are guys who lucked into elite throwing patterns, have quick arms, great genetics or are touched and roll out of bed throwing 90.  There are many more guys with physical limitations that will make it tough for them to ever approach that.   For most guys work is the key.  The right kind of work and lots of it.  All other things being relatively equal 5 mph changes a lot for a guy.  It is easy for a kid to think, "I am at 78, I will get to 83 and be good...." or 85 or 90. How many of them are really willing to work?  Work in a dedicated way with no promise of big improvement or future placement.  Not many.  

81 to 86 with all other things being equal makes you a different pitcher with potentially different opportunities.  As does 85 to 90 and 90 to 95.  

The guys that I have seen make jumps after reaching physical maturity, or close to it, say 17 or so, they have worked their butts off.  I have also seen guys work super hard, get big, strong, extend their long toss do everything they were asked to do and see relatively little result.  

The reality is (in my experience) that vast majority of high school guys fall into the same bucket.  If you are a high school kid and sitting 85 or higher, stay healthy, work hard you will have a very high percentage to keep playing.  If you are a high school kid and sitting 80 or below, stay healthy and work harder than anyone you know.  

I've been on here a short, little while and have seen it all. It still surprises me how it only takes a total of 5 seconds to go peek at a Poster's profile to glean what age one may be that will help us know how to answer or approach them. Maybe less than 5 seconds. Being "blunt" or brutal at all times is really unnecessary especially to our younger members seeking advice.

 

Ball Player, if and when you do come back to see the replies you've received here there are a couple of really good pieces of advice up above from those like Teaching Elder and Leftside. Read and re-read what they say and just know that each year your situation can and will change based on your natural growth, health, academics, girls, coach changes, etc. Enjoy the game each day and work hard. That is the only thing you can control and that will make a difference.

 

Quick question for Shove it: Was your son a 1st or 2nd round draft pick out of high school? With those velocities I'm suspecting he was. Congrats!

 

YGD 

I already explained my comments so don't feel the need to do so again to you but thanks for your input. I received overwhelmingly positive feedback and comments on my answer. It may not be how you would respond but it wasn't inappropriate and I stand by my comments which were a lot more helpful than most of the answer on this board.

I fail to see the "overwhelmingly positive responses."  One poster supported you several times. 

The 14 year old kid noted your tone- and he was remarkably  mature in his response.  Way to go kid!

Btw. You can refuse to apologize and "stand by your comments," but above you confessed that your tone was too harsh.  Which is it?

I see three or four posts in this thread that were more helpful than yours.

Not seeing where you get your facts from.

My facts? What facts were given? This is an opinion site. People give their opinions. There are no experts here. People give a bunch of velocities that are supposed to be facts but they aren't as evidenced by the debate that happens after people list them. Too many people on this site operate as if they are experts and they're not. Feel free to give your opinion, which can interesting and helpful. We have parents on here trying to get some sort of justification or acknowledgment that their 11 or 12 year old is going to be good enough to be a D-1 player and people actually give feedback and advice like they know if a kid is big enough, strong enough, etc. It's maddening and frankly ridiculous.

I did say that perhaps I was a bit harsh. I also probably should have just started a new thread and not answered on this thread but it came on the heals of a few other threads where parents of young kids were trying to get answers about whether their kid was going to be good enough in 6 or 7 years to play D-1 baseball. I also said I stood by my comments about hard work and not letting people on this site define you. One guy on here said he was going to help the kid achieve his goals. Really? I'll be interested in seeing that.

If my tone was too harsh then I apologize to the kid. But I don't apologize for my message. It was a positive message and a lot more helpful then the majority of answers people give on here.

The pitcher #1 needs to learn how to pitch. Velocity is only one function.

Years ago when there was NO "showcases", during our the Area Code games, I received a phone call from a young 16 year old pitcher from Florida.

He asked how do I play in the Area Code games. I said "who are you"?

He mentioned his name and fortunately I had received a scouting report.

 

He said that he had the best curveball in America.5'10 and 160 lbs.

 

Since I enjoyed his "cocky" attitude, "I said I will pitch you on Friday night #2 after Josh Beckett". Over 380 pro scouts in attendance  at Blair Field.

 

Beckett reach 98 mph for his 3 innings and when "Mr Curve ball" entered the game his 1st pitch was a "head to knees" curve and every scout said Bert Bryleven.

 

Our first 3 pitchers on this Texas Rangers Team became 1st round drafts.

 

That year over $38 million was paid in pro signing bonus and this young man made a donation to our non-profit corporation. We also conducted a baseball clinic [no charge) with Eric Davis, Dusty Baker as instructors and several track coaches.

 

"The game has Changed"!!!!

Showcases are now theater - "showbiz"

"are you learning the game"

Bob

 Goodwill Series Inernational Baseball