Verbal commit taking visits?

In my mind, when you make a verbal commitment you are out of the recruiting equation. The school that our son committed to is a higher academic school. He met the criteria and basically knew unless he simply spent no time on the application or slacked off academically he would be ok. The scholar athletes who have contingencies (possibly they need higher ACT/SAT scores or GPA) know that their acceptance is contingent on getting their scores or gpa up. While these students do commit, they generally have a backup plan in the event they don't make it in. Those students have taken other visits and usually have a plan in place. It is honorable that the coaches at the schools involved as well as the athlete have communication and quite often they make another commitment almost immediately after they find they didn't make it in. This happens every year in more schools than you know. It is handled respectfully.

When my son was in HS his travel team set up tournaments and games at college campuses with other teams in the league. If they were close by to other campuses then they would stop, not so much to meet coaches but to get a look and feel of the facilities and school. The summer was pretty expensive, back then, but it covered a lot for the money. He got to see most of the mid-larger D1 programs here in our state, as well as some in other neighboring states. It cut down on a lot of stuff we may have had to do.

I understand your point that things happen earlier these days. But keep in mind that not only are players limited to the amount of OV's they can attend, but programs are limited to how many they can allow in a season. Plus they are an expense to the program, and money is tight for them as well as families. Many programs will not even offer official visits until the player committs or signs.

I suggest waiting for visits until there is actual genuine interest and that the player has an idea where he stands in ability as well as in academics. If the coach really wants the player for his program he will wait until the player is ready to make his decision, within reason, if the coach isn't willing to wait, then that may not be the right place anyway.

Never take an offer so that one will save money, it may come back to bite later on, make the decision after much careful consideration and consideration of family situation.

Go where they really want you and appreciate what you will bring to their program.

I think you should think very hard about what you're teaching your son if let him make a "commitment" but then turn around and eliminate the meaning of the word by continuing to shop around.

Commonplace in football? Yup. But my view would be the same there as well.

I read through the question again and see I interpretted it incorrectly. I firmly believe your word is a critical part of your character and will stick with you. There better be a good reason to get out of a verbal. (sometimes there is and it works both ways) If you don't feel certain a school is the right match, wait until you do. Maintain an honest relationship with those schools that are recruiting you. They will appreciate it and they will give you the time you need if you are truly what they want. Again, the higher academic schools will also work to get you through, but they will also be honest with you as to where you stand if you voice your concerns. If our son had taken his first opportunity, which we thought was wonderful, he would have never known what other possibilities were out there.

I don't think you can compare football and baseball offers. There are 85 each 100% scholarships that go to each D1 football team as compared to 11.7 for baseball. In many cases, football players are making a choice between a 100% full ride here or a 100% full ride there. But, in baseball, full rides are rare...most position players get 25%-40% scholarships, pitchers get 40%-100%, and at least 8 players on the roster get nothing at all. As I said, 100% is EXTREMELY rare. I think football players know there is more money out there and do not worry about burning bridges. This has led to football players pitting one program against another and their verbal commitment means nothing. Even though that behavior has become acceptable or even expected by many in the football world, it doesn't make it right.

On the flip side, many baseball players, knowing that there is far less money to go around in baseball, find it hard to turn down money and accept the first offer given. Now, I agree with TPM, never accept an offer to save money, it may back fire if you are unhappy at that school. Just be open and honest with the coaches. Let them know where you are in the process, who is interested in you, who you are interested in, etc. Let them know if you need time to consider their offer and ask them how long you have to consider the offer. This is important because they have a signing priority. They may need an answer sooner than later. My son is a shortstop and the team he signed with wanted to fill that priority first. If you are honest with them they will be surprisingly honest with you about where they are in the process and how you fit in to their plans.

The scholarship, once signed is a commitment from the school. It doesn't guarantee you any playing time on the team but it is backed by the school even if the coach leaves before you arrive. Make sure you like the school first and foremost.

More specific to your question about visits, my son had 4 visits planned over a weeks time. We were planning to drive over 30 hours to visit all the schools who were seriously interested in him. We thought this would allow him to compare them to one another and make a decision while they were all fresh on his mind. He knew he would get offers at 2 of the schools once he stepped on campus due to the interest shown by those coaches. One of the schools, he did not expect an offer from (but loved the school when he visited for a camp), made an offer to him after taking us on a tour of the school and showing us the facilities. He said, "Dad, it just feels right". He wanted to accept the offer immediately, but I wanted him to have some time to think. He asked the coach to send the offer to him in an email so he would have something in writing. He told the coach that he was visiting some more schools and would finish his visits by weeks end. He asked the coach how long he had to consider the offer. To make a long story shorter, we did not finish our 30 hour drive. While driving he said, "Dad, if I really like the school (he liked it enough he had been considering walking on before getting the offer), and everything feels right, why visit the other schools?" I couldn't argue with him, especially since the school was 2 hours from home opposed to 6-11 hours from home like the other schools. We cut our trip short, drove home, and he called the coach and accepted the offer. He then called the other schools, and thanked the coaches for their time and interest in him, and told them he had accepted an offer and would not be visiting. All but one was complimentary of him and wished him luck in his freshmen year. One was mad at him for making a decision before visiting them. Once he accepted the offer, his response to future phone calls by coaches was, "I appreciate your interest, but I have accepted an offer already".

In the end, he was the one who made the decision. I believe he made the right one, and most importantly, went about it the right way. Confirmation: He started 50 games at shortstop his freshmen year, his team made it to the conference championship, and he loves his coach and teammates.

Here are some of the things my son considered (in addition to scholarship money) before accepting his offer: 1. Do I like the school? Would I like to attend this school even if I was not playing baseball? 2. Does it supply my educational needs? 3. Do I like the coach? What is the coaches philosophy, temperament, style? 4. What are my chances of playing immediately? Do they routinely red shirt freshmen or do they give them a chance to earn a spot? 5. What is the atmosphere/camaraderie like on the team? Do the players look like they are happy, like each other, buy into the program?

My advice, if these questions are answered in the positive, and you then choose to accept an offer to that school, then stay true to your commitment and your word.

In my opinion, once you verbally commit to a school, you are done. In my experience during the recruiting of my son, most schools will not recruit you if they know you are commited elsewhere (I know there are exceptions). In fact, in camp at Boston College, Coach Gambino went out of his way to tell parents that he absolutely would not talk to a kid who already committed. I think this is the way baseball handles things (I'm not sure how football does it) Once my son commited to a D1 school, other schools that had interest in him just told him "good luck" and the phone stopped ringing.

In my mind, your son needs to understand that a committment to a school is just that, a committment. My son was offered a number of scholarships to a number of very good D1 schools. Each one he turned down he knew that the position on the roster that was offered to him would be offered to other kids and it may not be available to him down the road. He also knew that he was not going to accept an offer from a school and still look for a "better" alternative.

Also - While the verbal committment isn't a legal binding agreement, the news of de-committing travels fast. Many college baseball coaches will take that into account when considering offering your son a postion on their roster (a "character flaw"). They would be VERY reluctant to offer your son a position knowing that history.

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With the increasing number of "early" verbal commitments (SOPH, JR, even some FR), do you think there will also be more official visits to schools other than to the one which the recruit verbally committed? Do you know of any players doing this already?

Certainly. I know people that have done this, and I expect it to continue. This is nothing new. I have as much respect for them as I do for a coach who goes back on his scholarship $$ committment prior to a recruit signing an NLI....no respect whatsoever. When large amounts of money are involved you quickly learn what someone's "word" means.

Most of the players & families I've met over the years have committed long before the Official Visit timeframe. Typically there were a few un-official visits involved before a commitment. If the OP's single purpose is to get the school to pay for the visit, I'm not sure that is enough of a reason for me. I think we got way more out of the many, many un-official visits than we did out of the 5 official visits because of the way they were structured and the NCAA's limitations. JMO.

As part of a "Junior Day" unofficial visit, we spent some one on one time with the Head Coach, who has over 20 years as a HC. He made it clear that if our son received an offer, it would be prior to July 1, which was earlier than we expected. I asked him about commits/ "de-commits" you hear of in other sports..esp with kids early in JR year, even sophs, it seems more likely to happen. He said true, but when a player de-committed to him the previous year, the player's father called the HC to explain another school's offer. HC said his reply to the father was Think about the lesson you are teaching your son about the value of his word and handshake. Part of the reason I asked the HC the question in front of my son was so my son would understand what "committment" meant at DI level to this coach. Accepting a "safe DI offer" and then continuing to pursue other DI schools doesn't seem right, no matter how much the Media seems to report the football/basketball stuff to make it seem normal.

It's a different situation than one where a player may not be academically accepted at his #1 school and the coach & player both know that's a risk.

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I think we got way more out of the many, many un-official visits than we did out of the 5 official visits because of the way they were structured and the NCAA's limitations.

I agree fennway...son did many unofficial visits prior to verbal. He was able to learn a lot more about the school, coaches & the team. On official visits, you are being recruited/sold on the program.

Based on the responses so far, it appears to be pretty unanimous towards honoring one's original verbal commitment. As the OP for this thread, I am not totally surprised by this outcome. I mostly feel the same myself. However, my main question was not geared towards what is currently the case, but what is to come. I expect the number of verbal decommits to increase going forward. Please consider the following possibilities with the earlier verbal commitments:

1. Players are less mature decision makers and more likely to jump at an attractive early offer
2. Players are likely less informed about what each school has to offer and which schools are interested
3. Players and families have less time to build relationships with the coaching staffs
4. Players have little idea about the eventual rosters of the school so far out
5. The possibility of coaching staff changes at a committed school increases with more time
6. There are numerous possible changes that could not be foreseen so far ahead - NCAA penalties, major/course offering changes, natural disasters (consider what the campus looks like after a hurricane or tornado), scandals (i.e. Penn State/Miami)
7. There is much less time to visit schools, as well as the player is likely less interested in visiting college campus' at such a young age
8. Since the earlier campus visits have to be "unofficial" visits, the cost is all on the player's family, many of whom cannot afford the cost and/or time away from work to adequately cover the preferred visits
9. Coaches "jump the gun" with an early offer based on an early projection for a player that does not pan out (or is injured). The likelihood of injury prior to enrollment increases with the longer time to enrollment. Will the school honor the offer? If so, is the same "love/interest" shown to the player?

Any of these factors could lead to some bad choices by some less mature players and less informed parents. By most accounts, the recruiting calendar has shifted, but the NCAA's official visit rules have not. I think there are some positives to the early verbals, but I am afraid there will be some fallout as well, possibly more decommits and drops.

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However, my main question was not geared towards what is currently the case, but what is to come. I expect the number of verbal decommits to increase going forward. Please consider the following possibilities with the earlier verbal commitments:

Newb - Interesting discussion. I think there is one thing that can be the root cause of any decrease in honoring verbal committments....money. If somehow, someway baseball gets more scholarship $$ in the future along the lines of football and basketball. Money can also have an indirect effect in term of coaching moves. If coaching somehow gets more fluid than it already is in college baseball, then I think you may see a rise in verbal decommits. The other reasons you offer above are possible to an individual situation today but I don't seem them as systemic reasons. JMO.

I think the rampant commit/de-commit in football often triggers when a 'better' school in a 'better' conference comes along and offers a recruit. In other words, they seem to climb the ladder with their commitments until they get to the highest spot they can.

Of course, not all football players do that. But it does happen too much IMO.

They need to stop using the term "commitment" in football recruiting. Call it what it is: "leaning."

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Originally posted by Prepster:
They need to stop using the term "commitment" in football recruiting. Call it what it is: "leaning."

No kidding!

after a player commits , what would be a senario where the coach retracts the scholarship?

The only one that I've known about on a first-hand basis (knew the family) occurred when a player let his grades slide sufficiently in his senior year of high school that the university's Admissions Office refused to admit him. He had to attend another college's summer sessions and record straight A's in them. Even then, his admission wasn't assured, beforehand. Subsequently, he made straight A's and was admitted.

In a couple of instances, I've heard that a new head coach disagreed with his predecessor's evaluation of players sufficiently that he pulled one or more of the prior coach's commitments.

The obvious reason that this happens rarely is that word travels fast among the families of recruited players; and a coach who reneges on his commitments risks the loss of a tremendous amount of credibility and reputation.

There was a 2012 at my son's high school who lost his opportunity when he failed to keep himself in shape and his performance dropped tremendously.

School saw him in the summer and he was 90-91 when they made their offer. By end of spring he was 82-83.

I don't think the school backed out of their end but he was highly encouraged to go to a Juco. My understanding is they pretty much told him you will not play.

a well respected travel team coach can be very helpful in these situations

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Originally posted by TRhit:
a well respected travel team coach can be very helpful in these situations

Trhit...excellent advice!

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Originally posted by bacdorslider:
after a player commits , what would be a senario where the coach retracts the scholarship?

Not meeting academic requirements. I know a kid who had not met the NCAA SAT requirement heading into the summer before college. He got it on his last opportunity.

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Originally posted by bacdorslider:
after a player commits , what would be a senario where the coach retracts the scholarship?

A committment is just a verbal agreement, the NLI seals the deal. Keep in mind that the player has to be accepted and get their certification from the clearinghouse.

One shouldn't worry about a coach or a program withdrawing the scholarship, but rather one should feel comfortable that the decision was the right fit. If one feels unsure of the decision, it probably wasn't the right choice in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by bacdorslider:
after a player commits , what would be a senario where the coach retracts the scholarship?

bacdorslider,

I personally know of a case where a Big 12 program over recruited (#of players) and in addition offered more money than they thought they should have to a particular player. They called the player up and told him that he would not play and shouldn't report. He told them he would take his chances and earn a spot in the rotation. That made them mad so they continued to pressure him to go somewhere else. He reported and eventually earned a spot in the bullpen with an occassional start. I have to admire the kid for sticking it out.

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Originally posted by HRKB:

quote:

Originally posted by bacdorslider:
after a player commits , what would be a senario where the coach retracts the scholarship?

bacdorslider,

I personally know of a case where a Big 12 program over recruited (#of players) and in addition offered more money than they thought they should have to a particular player. They called the player up and told him that he would not play and shouldn't report. He told them he would take his chances and earn a spot in the rotation. That made them mad so they continued to pressure him to go somewhere else. He reported and eventually earned a spot in the bullpen with an occassional start. I have to admire the kid for sticking it out.

Did you hear the players version or the coaches?