Justin Verlander now has the MVP to go along with his CY Young award!
Congrats to the Verlander's! Richard is on here from time to time. Great family. Great year for Justin.
Rich
www.playinschool.com
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This is much deserved for him and hopefully will also continue to draw attention to the high talent level we have here in our area.
I'm glad he overcame the bias some have against considering pitchers for this award. The standard line is that a starting pitcher only has a shot at helping you win once every five days. There are many holes in this argument.
First, the very best offensive player only makes a substantial difference in some games, not all of them. Unless you count the impact of being pitched around, etc.
But if you do that, then consider this:
The day before Verlander's starts, Leyland knows he can go to his bullpen early and often, because tomorrow he won't need them much.
The day Verlander starts, the team most likely is going to win.
The day after Verlander starts, the bullpen is fresh again.
And the bullpen never has to worry about getting used almost every day, so even the other 2 days of the cycle are favorably affected. If the Braves had had that going for them, they wouldn't have had O'Flaherty, Venters and Kimbrell all hit the wall in September, they could've held on for the wild card, and who knows who would've ended up winning the World Series.
Much is made of Verlander's winning the "pitcher's triple crown" of wins, K's and ERA. Really it should be a "quadruple crown" that includes innings pitched. How long has it been since someone threw that many innings so effectively?
I'm glad he overcame the bias some have against considering pitchers for this award. The standard line is that a starting pitcher only has a shot at helping you win once every five days. There are many holes in this argument.
First, the very best offensive player only makes a substantial difference in some games, not all of them. Unless you count the impact of being pitched around, etc.
But if you do that, then consider this:
The day before Verlander's starts, Leyland knows he can go to his bullpen early and often, because tomorrow he won't need them much.
The day Verlander starts, the team most likely is going to win.
The day after Verlander starts, the bullpen is fresh again.
And the bullpen never has to worry about getting used almost every day, so even the other 2 days of the cycle are favorably affected. If the Braves had had that going for them, they wouldn't have had O'Flaherty, Venters and Kimbrell all hit the wall in September, they could've held on for the wild card, and who knows who would've ended up winning the World Series.
Much is made of Verlander's winning the "pitcher's triple crown" of wins, K's and ERA. Really it should be a "quadruple crown" that includes innings pitched. How long has it been since someone threw that many innings so effectively?
Well said Midlo. Kudos to Verlander.
Congrats, Ver.
Good for him with the award but I totally disagree with him getting it. He had a great season. Can't take that away from him but I just do not agree with a player who only plays once every 5 days getting the MVP award...
Nova -
I love when everyone on here is being positive and 1 person has to be a "Debbie downer". No worries though, you obviously entitled to your opinion. But you did not offer any recommendations.
What player would you say was the most valuable? What player that played 5 out of 5 games would you say single handily won 24 games?
Rich
www.playinschool.com
I love when everyone on here is being positive and 1 person has to be a "Debbie downer". No worries though, you obviously entitled to your opinion. But you did not offer any recommendations.
What player would you say was the most valuable? What player that played 5 out of 5 games would you say single handily won 24 games?
Rich
www.playinschool.com
Incredible achievement. It doesn't happen very often. 1986 Roger "that's not my DNA" Clemens and 1971 Vida Blue were the last two to do it.
I agree with Novaball that a pitcher shouldn't get it under normal circumstances, but when you lead the league in Ks, wins and ERA those are not normal cicumstances. Yankees 2nd baseman Robinson Cano would have been my position player MVP if not for Verlander. Congrats to Mr. Verlander!
I agree with Novaball that a pitcher shouldn't get it under normal circumstances, but when you lead the league in Ks, wins and ERA those are not normal cicumstances. Yankees 2nd baseman Robinson Cano would have been my position player MVP if not for Verlander. Congrats to Mr. Verlander!
I believe i heard something on the radio where being the rookie of the year, mvp and cy young winner has only happened 1 other time in the history of the game.
Congrats to Verlander. He joins Don Newcombe of the Brooklyn Dodgers as the only other player in MLB history to win the ROY, Cy Young and MVP awards.
PIS - Wasn't meant to be a downer. I said that I thought he had a fantastic season. Congrats to him. Here's the Cy Young award to celebrate that accomplishment.
I can think of several players who I would have voted for. Gonzo, Ellsbury, Cano, Bautista to name a few.
I simply believe that the Cy Young award is what should be used to celebrate the best pitcher and the MVP should be for position players. Not mean to lessen Verlander's domination in any way shape or form but I think that some truly spectacular performances by everyday players went unrewarded this season.
I can think of several players who I would have voted for. Gonzo, Ellsbury, Cano, Bautista to name a few.
I simply believe that the Cy Young award is what should be used to celebrate the best pitcher and the MVP should be for position players. Not mean to lessen Verlander's domination in any way shape or form but I think that some truly spectacular performances by everyday players went unrewarded this season.
I'm sure that none on my list "singlehandedly" won 24 games but I don't seem to remember Verlander striking out 27 hitters/game in his 24 wins either... ;-)
quote:1986 Roger "that's not my DNA" Clemens and 1971 Vida Blue were the last two to do it.
Today's paper said also Eckersly in 1992, though that was in the National League.
No, Verlander did not get every out of every game.
But the bottom line is that when he was in the game his team won. They have a stat for that called winning percentage. JV's was .828 which means he won a lot.
On the other hand, Ellsbury, for example, played in 158 of 162 games. The Red Sox winning percentage was merely .562 which was good enough to not make the playoffs. Which means he had a lot of positive personal stats that ended in team losses. Sidenote: if Boston didn't have a historic choke to end the year my money might have been with Ellsbury.
In basketball or football it is common for 1 player to "take over a game". That is a rare phrase in a baseball game. Hard to "take over" when the ball isn't hit to you and you only come up 4 times a game. This year you saw it every 5th day with JV. Bottom line. In his 5 regular season losses he gave up 4 earned runs once, 3 ER twice, 2 ER once, and 1 ER once. He absolutely took over almost every single game he was in.
Rich
www.playinschool.com
But the bottom line is that when he was in the game his team won. They have a stat for that called winning percentage. JV's was .828 which means he won a lot.
On the other hand, Ellsbury, for example, played in 158 of 162 games. The Red Sox winning percentage was merely .562 which was good enough to not make the playoffs. Which means he had a lot of positive personal stats that ended in team losses. Sidenote: if Boston didn't have a historic choke to end the year my money might have been with Ellsbury.
In basketball or football it is common for 1 player to "take over a game". That is a rare phrase in a baseball game. Hard to "take over" when the ball isn't hit to you and you only come up 4 times a game. This year you saw it every 5th day with JV. Bottom line. In his 5 regular season losses he gave up 4 earned runs once, 3 ER twice, 2 ER once, and 1 ER once. He absolutely took over almost every single game he was in.
Rich
www.playinschool.com
Rich, I understand your side of things. I've been a baseball fan for a lot of years and I've always felt this way. In the lead-up to the announcement I was telling my son that while I love Verlander I just couldn't support the MVP going to a pitcher because of the fact that the Cy Young is out there and already recognizes the amazing year he had.
I just feel like the players who are out there for 162 games a year grinding away should be rewarded. Because without those guys grinding away and scoring runs then NO pitcher (at least AL pitchers) could win ANY games. My personal opinion though and for sure only matters to me. I won't wax on about it though because we simply disagree and I respect your thoughts on it, regardless of whether I thought I could convince you otherwise. hahaha
Obviously with him being a local guy it is certainly one hell of a nice honor so its hard to complain...
I just feel like the players who are out there for 162 games a year grinding away should be rewarded. Because without those guys grinding away and scoring runs then NO pitcher (at least AL pitchers) could win ANY games. My personal opinion though and for sure only matters to me. I won't wax on about it though because we simply disagree and I respect your thoughts on it, regardless of whether I thought I could convince you otherwise. hahaha
Obviously with him being a local guy it is certainly one hell of a nice honor so its hard to complain...