Very early offers

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I'll respectfully disagree with much of that sentiment.

If we're talking about an "official" visit, then we must be talking about a senior (2008) player. In that event we are not early in the process at all at this point.

Assuming we are talking about a junior (2009) player and an "unofficial" visit, then committing now would be very early indeed, but not unheard of. I know of on VA 2009 pitcher who committed back in June, and I know of 2 VA 2008 pitchers who committed in October 2006. Those are the exceptions and not the rule.

But your comments indicate that someone cannot do their homework and know what they want a mere 6-10 months ahead of most of the other players. That just isn't so. Most players don't do their homework that early because for most players they don't have the option in front of them. But for those who are hot enough commodities to get early interest, there's no reason why they cannot go over all the information and start the decision process earlier than most.

Now, if they DON'T do their homework, then I would agree with you that they are making a big mistake. But that has nothing to do with early vs. late. That's just being lazy and that would be wrong at any time in the process.

There are many reasons why a player can be advantaged by committing early. It takes a lot of pressure off and lets him just play for fun. It removes a lot of travel/visiting burden and lets him focus on the books. Since the early commit is likely a top prospect, it can build "buzz" about the program's recruiting class and thus, help that class become stronger.

For most of the folks who read this forum it's a moot point, because out of the thousands of hopefuls only a handful even get to consider this option. Moreover, as you know even if they do commit by handshake, they can "un-commit" at any time they want if they find they may have decided rashly or if their overall goals change.

Basketball has been doing this for years now and the sky has not fallen. It may be relatively new to baseball but it is probably here to stay, if the basketball experience is any guide. Instead of railing against things that aren't going to change, we need to focus instead on how best to manage the process as it will face us.

MD,
I made an error, it was unofficial, junior fall.

I understand your point, and know your son committed early, but I also know that you and your son explored different opportunities. There is a difference between doing ones hjomework and jumping on teh first opportunity when you have had limited exposure or limited your search.

I know these opportunitties come to a select few. I still do not agree with very early offers. If a player is that sought after as a sophmore, early junior, that signals to me he would have many opportunities. I would much rather spend some extra $$ to make sure mine has found the right place and made the right choice, instead of jumping on the first one.

The NLI is not signed until senior fall or senior spring. There is plenty of time to make decisions.
Verballing spring, summer of junior year is a lot different than a year, two before, IMO. As far as taking pressure off, I am not understanding what pressure the sophmore or early junior has placed upon them?

This early verballing for baseball is a result of the snowball effect of early offers. JMO.

Frankly, I'm surprised that a school would offer something so early, especially with the newly-mandated reduced roster sizes. There's a lot that can happen to a prospect between fall of his junior year and fall of his senior year (injuries, etc.). You'd think programs would want to take their time to ensure that they won't make a "mistake" that could cost them dearly in the future.

One caution I would give to those considering verballing so early is that the coaching staff for a school could change between now and summer after junior year.

After 2 years of watching college ball , change is the rule not thye exception.
I can't even believe some of the stories I have heard from college players.
Too much can happen to sign early.

BTW,
basketball offers full scholarships. The recruiting process is completey different, same as in football. Coaches spend hours watching players and money on recruiting them. These programs make schools big $$$.

A baseball coach can watch a player once, give partial scholarship out of his budget or ask him to walk on and evaluate him from there.

There is more at stake in college baseball, on both sides, JMO.

It's kind of like dating and marriage, I guess. Sometimes when you know what you want, you need to move on it. Otherwise, the other party might think you've lost interest and move on. They might even move on to someone they don't regard as highly as you, and everyone might well end up unhappy for not having waited, but folks this is human behavior and it will be ever thus.

The schools are in competition for those few who are early commit prospects. If they sense that one kid might not be interested they will move on to others, for fear of getting none of them at all if they put their hopes in a kid who ends up going elsewhere.

The solution is not to buck the process, which is trending in a natural direction that no one prospect can hope to change, but rather to recognize the need to do your homework and come to grips with the decision process earlier on. If basketball players can do it, so can baseball players.

Most of the early commit targets are going to be your well known pitchers. Everyone needs pitching every year, so the program is not taking a risk in making an early commitment to a top pitcher. And while baseball scholarships are almost never 100%, the early commit targets are typically also the guys who get the very high %'s, so while they may not be getting 100%, they can at least feel confident that they didn't get cheated in the deal, and that they didn't miss out on a better deal elsewhere.

I realize that the further back you push this, the more you risk someone making a bad decision out of a lack of maturity. Because of the need for maturity in decision making, there is a role for parents in this process.

The ultimate decision needs to be the player's decision because he will be the one who has to live with it. That in my mind is no different from a whole host of decisions teens make that affect the rest of their lives. (Like the students who party when they should be studying, leaving them unable to get into their dream schools. Or the kid who drinks (or worse), with all the consequences that can bring.)

But I thought it was my job to walk my son through all the factors and make sure he had considered all the angles thoroughly before he shook hands. Just as I make it plain to my son that if he shrugs off his schoolwork, that decision has long term consequences. Or if he gets caught with drugs, that decision has dire and long term consequences.

Heck, around here we have a girl my son's age about to go to prison for killing someone while driving drunk. High school age kids make decisions all the time -- some good, some bad, some horrific. In the greater scheme of things the baseball decision is not one of the harder decisions.

In my father's day, teens in his home town worked in the coal mines. Meaning, the kids can handle more responsibility that our current mindset seems to lead us to believe. The fact that they have not in recent years doesn't mean they cannot or even that they should not.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
It's kind of like dating and marriage, I guess. Sometimes when you know what you want, you need to move on it. Otherwise, the other party might think you've lost interest and move on. They might even move on to someone they don't regard as highly as you, and everyone might well end up unhappy for not having waited, but folks this is human behavior and it will be ever thus.

When my son told coaches he would not commit until his senior fall, all of them respected his decision. The difference may be that he didn't have a dozen schools hanging on and by end of summer it was down to two schools, they respected and appreciated that. I know alot of top prospects who also waited until end of summer to committ and the opportunities still were available. Accepting an offer for fear the offer will not be available is never a reason to commit, JMO.

Quote by Midlodad:
The schools are in competition for those few who are early commit prospects. If they sense that one kid might not be interested they will move on to others, for fear of getting none of them at all if they put their hopes in a kid who ends up going elsewhere.

[color:RED]Coaches recruit the same players, agreed, but also recruit other players if perhaps their #1 doesn't commit. They are less fearful of losing a recruit thean the recruit is of losing the offer.

The solution is not to buck the process, which is trending in a natural direction that no one prospect can hope to change, but rather to recognize the need to do your homework and come to grips with the decision process earlier on. If basketball players can do it, so can baseball players.

If a coach backs a player up against the wall for an very early commitment, as a parent I would advise him to think twice. A player should have enough confidance in himself that better things will come if he loses that opportunity.

Most of the early commit targets are going to be your well known pitchers. Everyone needs pitching every year, so the program is not taking a risk in making an early commitment to a top pitcher. And while baseball scholarships are almost never 100%, the early commit targets are typically also the guys who get the very high %'s, so while they may not be getting 100%, they can at least feel confident that they didn't get cheated in the deal, and that they didn't miss out on a better deal elsewhere.

My son was not an early commitment and got a vey substantial scholarship, don't let anyone tell you that if you don't take an early offer no money will be available come fall. Besides, more money doesn't mean that would be the right fit.

I realize that the further back you push this, the more you risk someone making a bad decision out of a lack of maturity. Because of the need for maturity in decision making, there is a role for parents in this process.

A parents role is to guide the prospect not make his decisions. In fariness to my player, I could not tell my son what to do until the time was right to do so. I wasn't the one going to play for the coach or attend the school, he was.

The ultimate decision needs to be the player's decision because he will be the one who has to live with it. That in my mind is no different from a whole host of decisions teens make that affect the rest of their lives. (Like the students who party when they should be studying, leaving them unable to get into their dream schools. Or the kid who drinks (or worse), with all the consequences that can bring.)

But I thought it was my job to walk my son through all the factors and make sure he had considered all the angles thoroughly before he shook hands. Just as I make it plain to my son that if he shrugs off his schoolwork, that decision has long term consequences. Or if he gets caught with drugs, that decision has dire and long term consequences.

Heck, around here we have a girl my son's age about to go to prison for killing someone while driving drunk. High school age kids make decisions all the time -- some good, some bad, some horrific. In the greater scheme of things the baseball decision is not one of the harder decisions.

In my father's day, teens in his home town worked in the coal mines. Meaning, the kids can handle more responsibility that our current mindset seems to lead us to believe. The fact that they have not in recent years doesn't mean they cannot or even that they should not.

I can't respond because I have no clue what this has to do with early verbals. The bottom line is that I do not support VERY early decisons but that is up to the individual and their family. And if they choose to do so, it should never be about fear of another offer not coming or passing up $$. Besides, players who possess top talent can afford to wait on the process for as long as they wish, just because of who they are.

Great discussion.

Seems like a key factor here is the level of the talent of the player (i.e., top talent) and the "leverage" (if any) that this talent may offer.

The more I learn, one lesson keeps jumping out....that is - do your homework and do it early.

I've never met anyone who says they got involved in the recruiting process too soon. I hear lots of comments like "I wish we had started earlier!".

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
BTW,
basketball offers full scholarships. The recruiting process is completey different, same as in football. Coaches spend hours watching players and money on recruiting them. These programs make schools big $$$.

A baseball coach can watch a player once, give partial scholarship out of his budget or ask him to walk on and evaluate him from there.

There is more at stake in college baseball, on both sides, JMO.

Basketball gives twelve rides to men and fifteen to women. Given teams play with eight to ten man rotations there's a lot of room for surviving recruiting mistakes. Like you stated, there's more at stake in baseball recruiting.

I am not sure I understand the problem here. It does seem like this is NOT common and why would anyone that gets such a very-early offer think it would be their last.

This should encourage the prospect to step up their goal a bit. I can't see "PO-DUNK-U" having an advantage here. If anything this should be the feather in your cap to go market yourself to YOUR top choices. What have you got to loose? If it is your top choice making such an offer and every thing looks right, smells right, feels right, fits right; why not bite?

If a coach that makes such a very-early offer says it is only on the table until some "very-early-date" then you would have to wonder what was going on. We recieved what I would consider "early" offers but no one put any time limits on them.

I think everyone makes valid points here but there lies a common theme on both sides of the table. Do your home work ! The coaches are doing their homework about you, watching you play, calling your high school coaches, summer coaches, trying to get you on campus to evaluate you further.....do your homework, ask around about the program, its history, the schools academics, coaching staff, tradition, location, and please what ever you do I strongly suggest visiting the school while school is in session to truly get the feel of the campus and surrounding life, check out the baseball facilities and while there spend some time with the coaches. All of this above can, does and should happen before any decisions are made IMO !

quote:

The schools are in competition for those few who are early commit prospects.

This is key to the situation - "few who are early commit prospects". This option is something that only a VERY few kids experience. I certainly could understand the thought from most of the rest of us as to why they would want to go ahead and narrow their options. However, for many of these kids, they know they'll be drafted high and that's the direction they plan for themselves. Why bother with all the recruiting with coaches calling, etc.? Others have always had a "dream school" in mind. So, why not bite while the offer's hot?

Again, this affects so very few kids that I think most of the rest of us have a difficult time walking in their shoes to understand why it would be appealing to verbal early.

No one knows two years in advance where or if they will be drafted.

Many top prospects don't get drafted because of strong college commitments.

Top prospects have the luxury of taking their time in the decision.

quote:

No one knows two years in advance where or if they will be drafted.

TPM, None of us know anything for absolute. However, your first round prospects in HS, have a pretty good inkling that they'll be a high pick and typically the organizations know how much it will take to get them. There's lots of surprises at draft time, but for your BJ Uptons, etc.... not so much.

I've personally known three first round draft picks out of HS that committed early for the very reason I stated previously. They would have their hands full with professional scouts... didn't need college coaches added to the mix. I'm not necessarily saying families shouldn't have a contingency plan, but I know this happens for some... it's just "get it over with".

Not talking about the BJ Uptons of the world.

Know lots of first rounders who didn't know they would be first rounders until their name was called. I do know that most of them, very good students, put lots of thought into where they would go to school.

I think most first rounders are aware they are first rounders. Actually I think there are MANY more players that think they are first rounders than actually are. You can read BA and look into their crystal ball and through the eyes of their staff. They are uncannily accurate in their predictions. Yes its only a prediction and many other things factor in that influence the draft. Probabally the greatest influences are the parents' and the players' comments prior to draft day. One "wrong" word and they move on. When this happens parents are left scratching their head wondering what happened.
Fungo

My 2008 LHP son did an early commit to Washington State University. There were many schools contacting him but in the end we liked the program, the coaches, and the resolve to rebuild a once-great Pac-10 baseball team. Coach Marbut is doing a terrific job of recruiting and building a program that will compete with the best in the near future.. and my son wanted to be part of that success.

Sometimes, when it's right you will know it!

Fungo I agree with you regarding BA, they do very well in projecting early draft choices. However, that crystal ball doesn't clearly define until a few months before the draft.

I think we got off track, this wasn't about the draft this was about very early offers, sophmore years and junior fall. I realize many verbal in the spring of their junior year.

A timely news article to this topic...

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070911/NEWS/709110329/1046/sports

Congratulations to this young man! I watched him at the recent Labor Day Camp at UF and he was definately a standout! We will be seeing him in district play as well this season.

Thanks for the article. He will play for a great coach.

KO is master at getting talent and getting them to verbal early. If you ever meet him you will understand. He has done that with a few from Clemson and we have discussed it, that his his job.

I still do not believe in early verbals. JMO.

TPM You have a PM

I think it ought to be against NCAA rules for any college coach to ask a kid to commit to anything in his Soph. year. Many things can happen between now and graduation that could damage the psyche of a healthy young man. Now add the stress from the expectation to perform and you have a recipe for disaster.

Louisiana Lightning-
I tend to agree with you. Good, bad, indifferent this has been going on for quite awhile, especially in basketball.

quote:

by LL: think it ought to be against NCAA rules for any college coach to ask a kid to commit to anything in his Soph. year. Many things can happen between now and graduation that could damage the psyche of a healthy young man. Now add the stress from the expectation to perform and you have a recipe for disaster.

plenty of regular students make their (academic) college choices very early,
why not athletes IF they have the chance??

ya just may have it backwards, the common theme in the MANY posts of those who accepted an offer and MADE COMMITMENT ...

"it's like a heavy load has been lifted, I can just play now" ...

ALL the guys striving to play at the next level who are uncertain IF/WHEN they will get that chance are the ones feeling the STRESS

ps - phyches do heal

Agreed. But for another reason. Colleges can, and do, back off of these early offers if their needs change, the player does not develop as expected, etc. A kid can lose out on a lot of opportunities while naively thinking he has his dream offer in his back pocket.

quote:

Originally posted by Louisiana Lightning:
I think it ought to be against NCAA rules for any college coach to ask a kid to commit to anything in his Soph. year. Many things can happen between now and graduation that could damage the psyche of a healthy young man. Now add the stress from the expectation to perform and you have a recipe for disaster.

quote:

Originally posted by FloridaHokie:
A timely news article to this topic...

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070911/NEWS/709110329/1046/sports

Was an offer made to this young man ?

Where do the "recruiting" timelines/guidelines come into play?

quote:

Originally posted by Louisiana Lightning:
I think it ought to be against NCAA rules for any college coach to ask a kid to commit to anything in his Soph. year. Many things can happen between now and graduation that could damage the psyche of a healthy young man. Now add the stress from the expectation to perform and you have a recipe for disaster.

Many don't agree with your point. They say it RELIEVES the stress of recruiting.
I am not understanding the stress, coaches can't call you until july 1 going into senior year, you can say yes on that day.
I guess to each his own, I just know if we had to do it all over again, I still don't think that son would commit earlier than he has to or we would advise as such. JMO.

quote:

Was an offer made to this young man ?

Where do the "recruiting" timelines/guidelines come into play?

Anyone ?

If he committed obviously there was an offer.

There are no NCAA rules that prohibit early verbals for any sport.

If it's were you want to go to school, Then I don't see a problem with it.
But as other's have said, Anything can happened between now and then.
It depends on the individual player weather or not there's any stress involved.
Don't commit if your not sure.
Son had offer's, and were all great places to go to school.
Did not commit till mid July the Summer after his Senior year in HS.
Only then did he find the right fit for him.
And the Baseball's not bad either.
EH

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
If he committed obviously there was an offer.

There are no NCAA rules that prohibit early verbals for any sport.

I am asking about CONTACT, AND THE RULES, and the rules of RECRUITING also.

I am asking if a kid walked off the street, into a major D1 head coaches office, and said I want to play here.

I want to know how this contact was initiated, and where it fits in with the 9/1 and 7/1 timetable.

Unofficial visit? Camp? Coach has seen him play somewhere?

A player can make contact with a coach as much as he wants on his dime and time. You seem to be familiar with the rules.

Knowing the HC, he didn't just offer because the player wanted to come play. He obviously has seen him play.

If kid walks in, there are no limits or dates:

http://www1.ncaa.org/eprise/main/Eligibility_Center/CBS...ting_Regulations.pdf

he can verbal at any time.

The player was at the UF Labor Day Camp most recently and performed well. Plus as others noted before he was on Team USA and was All Area Short stop.

thanks

With major D-1 programs, there is a HUGE amount of communication that goes on before July 1 prior to senior year, even before Sept. 1 of junior year.

A player can:

Call the coaches and if they answer, talk all he and they want. (But if you leave a message, they cannot call back, because they cannot initiate a call until July 1 and then only once/week.)

E-mail 'til the cows come home. (Sometimes a coach will agree by e-mail to sit by the phone waiting for your call at an appointed time.)

Have your high school and/or travel coaches talk to the coaches at target colleges for you.

Talk to them on their campuses -- at camps or "unofficial" visits

There also was an awful lot of texting going on until the recent imposition of the texting ban -- the one NCAA move that we who pay the cell phone bills truly applauded! (E-mails are free!)

Bottom line, you don't have to wait for the Sept. 1 or July 1 dates to get going. Sept. 1 of junior year is still very early in the process, but it's probably not adviseable to wait for July 1 of the following summer to see if the phone rings.

As one concrete example, I can tell you that we just had an "official" visit at Wake Forest. This particular weekend was not so much to recruit as to introduce the committed HS seniors to each other and to players already there and on the team. There are 8 2008's already committed and the coaches are only looking to fill a few more slots. I can assure you that not one of these 8 committed kids waited for July 1 to roll around to get started. The guys under consideration for the remaining slots didn't, either.

This means that in the case of this one school at least, there isn't a whole lot of opportunity left for those who may have waited until now to get started. And I don't think Wake is unusual at all; what they are doing is what I see going on with most of your major D-1 programs. So if you're a 2009 or younger, keep this in mind; you are not safe simply to "wait and see". The rest of the world will move ahead without you.

November may be the "early" signing period, and there may be an April signing period as well, but the fact is that after November a whole lot of teams will have filled all of their openings. Not everyone, mind you, but a lot.

I would suggest that at the very least, by fall of junior year a player who thinks he has D-1 potential should be researching schools and programs to determine maybe 5 that he intends to look at more closely. Then contact those 5 and see if you can generate interest. Try to get them to come scout your spring games, or ask if they're coming to a showcase or tournament you may be playing in so they can see you play. Give them your HS coach's contact info so they can start investigating whether you are the real deal or someone with an unrealistic impression of your own abilities.

By the time the following summer rolls around, you want to have a very firm idea of where you stand and whether you are getting anywhere with your top 5 -- or whether you need to move on to other potential schools. If you are seen as the type of player to play at the level of the schools you contacted, you should be getting at least some serious interest. If you have overestimated how others see you, then you need to get honest with yourself in a hurry before you miss out on the next tier of choices.

Bear in mind that this is the time table for major D-1's. Some mid-majors will leave openings to fill over the winter or even into the spring of senior year, and will basically pick up the kids who get passed over by their dream schools. And D-3's will get into the picture very late many times, because they know that a kid may well not look at them at all until he's sure he can't land a scholarship deal somewhere.

So, there are still lots of opportunities for kids late into senior year and even in the summer following some times. But if you want to get your top choice, or one of your top few choices, get cracking early.