Very Interesting

nothing wrong with the Principal's statement

Excellent! Putting high school sports in their proper perspective.

I'm not sure low test scores= D/F grades in class...


Each way of looking at it has its flaws in determining the student's learning and each way has its positives as well.

With that said, I do see this as a good thing and something ALL schools should have. I'm pretty sure the IHSA in Illinois has standards for grades, but at my high school there are actually higher expectations.

Some places require you to "pass a certain number of hours" each week. Our school required you to have no more than one F. They found that the first method would actually allow some students to be failing multiple classes and still be eligible.


Something needs to be done. It sounds like this principal is taking steps in the right direction..

How this differs from NC rules is you must pass 3 of 4 prior to the season you are playing in order to be elgible. This principal is saying its week to week and no D or F on your weekly progress report handed in each week. Each school can set its own standards as long as they are at least as stringent as the state rules.

I happen to like what he is saying and what he is doing. I just wanted to get others thoughts as well.

for the Principal for sticking to his principles...

I'm all for it. This principal has his priorities in the right place.

When parents won't do their job, someone has to. My dad didn't wait for the school to act before he yanked me off the football team for lousy grades.


I expect a lawsuit will be filed by some parent or student.

In theory it is good. Here is where I would have a problem. In our district in math classes 70% of all grades are based on tests. Now we have a class that is only taught by one teacher and to her own admission she hates athletics. On top of this 60% of all of her students are failing, per conversation with dept. chair. Would it be fair to a player who was getting A's in all of their classes but hers to be benched for a week? Before you say this would never happen I would have 3 starters benched and Football would lose their starting QB and start receiver. All have all A's but 1 D and yes it is in that class.

Infidel, it takes BOTH parents to agree to the high grade standards. I tried for the first three years, monitored grades, went to conferences, all to naught. Boy only listens to his mom, who gives him everything. When BOTH parents are on the same page this works.

I'm got tired of being outnumbered, so son now has made his own bed and now he will lie in it. I did all I could do. As for travel ball, I put that in his mom's hands and pocketbook.

Sadly, here in Georgia, an entire county school system recently lost accreditation, primarily due to an insane school board and wacky administrators. The governor had to remove some board members and the new head of the school board will probably be fired, making way for the 3rd one in as many years.

I feel bad for the kids who have worked for their grades in a very bad system. And the kids who got a poor education due to political incompetence.

I wish all schools would hold all kids to a higher standard that what they are doing right now.

State standards are too low and too many parents feel if their kid is good enough at a sport a college may overlook those grades and give student tutoring to bring those grades up. Missouri you must only pass 4 of 5 classes. Not in our house - you must maintain min. of B average.

I have seen a D1 school send a HS senior with terrible grades, to a college prep school for a year and a half. He was a red shirt for his freshman year. He got grades up and now is playing. This was not baseball it was football and it happens in football because it is a big money maker for the NCAA.

Parents should not nor should they expect others to bail their kids out when the kid is not making the initial effort.

Can this principal hold these kids to this standard if the state standard is lower? Unfortunately I smell lawsuits on this horizon.

MO2C's GPA requirement for her boys is/was much more stringent than the schools. Priorities in our house are education first, too bad it isn't the same everywhere, maybe our school systems wouldn't have some of the problems they do. I have some brainiac kids and some more average kids, but they all know that schoolwork comes first and wouldn't begin to try to play a sport or other activity if their grades weren't up to their ability (meaning A's are the expectation for some, while B's and C's are for others). We have 6 kids in our family.

I expect the school to educate my children, but, as parents, we are responsible to make sure our kids learn. When one of our children was struggling significantly in early grade school, we sacrificed to put him with private tutoring until he could read. He was in almost all "special ed" classes at the time, but is now ranked #13 in his senior class.

just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty34:
Can this principal hold these kids to this standard if the state standard is lower? Unfortunately I smell lawsuits on this horizon.

Our private high school always had higher academic standards for sports participation than the surrounding public schools.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
The new principal in addition to other measures announced a new policy for athletes and everyone taking part in band cheerleading etc. If you get a D or an F in any subject on your weekly progress report you can not play until the next weekly progress report comes out and you do not have a D or F in any subject.

I have no idea what our state rules are since our middle and high school rules are stricter. Our rule is similar to the school in the article. It's just about F's. The high school has a 97% on to college rate.

I really like what this principal is doing overall, but I would have one concern. I would like to see some provision for a one time warning if player/band member, etc. slipped up one week. Anybody can have a bad week, and I would hate to see a kid who overall does really well be punished because he screwed up one test or something like that.

Speaking from personal experience, I always got good grades overall and I was the one person who coaches never had to check my report cards because they knew I did well in the classroom. However, there would probably have been a few weeks where I wouldn't have played because Calculus was kicking my arse.

I missed that weekly grade statement above. I am not sure why a weekly grade is even important - it is the overall grade for the semester I would be concerned about. Under a weekly grade system, in many weeks one single assignment could be the grade for the week - which could be a very minor part of the overall grade for the class.

For example, last week in my daughter's English class there was one assignment - a grammar test with 5 sentences to correct. If you only corrected 3 of them correctly, you would get a 60% in the class for that week - a borderline D/F. Seems a bit much for a missed comma to take you out of sports for the week.

quote:

Originally posted by 08Dad:
I missed that weekly grade statement above. I am not sure why a weekly grade is even important - it is the overall grade for the semester I would be concerned about. Under a weekly grade system, in many weeks one single assignment could be the grade for the week - which could be a very minor part of the overall grade for the class.

For example, last week in my daughter's English class there was one assignment - a grammar test with 5 sentences to correct. If you only corrected 3 of them correctly, you would get a 60% in the class for that week - a borderline D/F. Seems a bit much for a missed comma to take you out of sports for the week.

08dad I think they mean that the cummulative average at that time for the week is what they check and not just the 1 or 2 assignments for the week. I might be wrong though but that is how I would do it.

Here is the deal. Each teacher must turn in a progress report for their class every Friday. If you have a D or F at the time of the progress report in any class you can not play until the next progress report comes out and you do not have a D or an F in any class. In other words its week to week.

I would think this would be a tremendous incentive for players to make sure they are taking care of business everyday. Remember this principal is under pressure to turn things around and turn them around now. This policy goes for anyone that takes part in any activity relating to school. Band , Flag Team , Sports etc etc.

I know this seems harsh and I am sure there will be some kids that just have a bad week or have a bad test grade and they get punished. But one things for sure he has their attention. And I am sure there are alot more kids studying and paying closer attention to what they are doing in the classroom. I would bet teachers are getting alot more requests for tutoring and the parents of some kids are alot more concerned with how Jr is doing in class as well. I dont see how this can be a bad thing.

If it takes something like this to make kids and parents wake up and put their priorities in order then I am all for it. I know one thing my kid wouldnt have to worry about the school if he brought home a D or F. He would be alot more worried about me and his mother. If you want to play its real simple. Dont make a D or F that week in your class. Do what you have to do to.

Parents raise hel and go out and get private instruction for their kids if they struggle at the plate or can not throw strikes. Players get benched or cut when they can not perform above a D or F on the field. Parents at this school will have to learn that academics are important or there kids will not play.

I understand the comments about having a bad test grade for the week or a tough teacher. But you have to admit this def will get peoples attention. And remember this schools end of year test scores were so bad the state was about to take over the school.

I like it myself. School has got to be a priority over sports. When they get to college their grades are checked pretty often by coaches so someone needs to step up to the plate and make these kids(No matter the activity) take school seriously and not mess around. Its tough but lifes tough.

SoCal

Sounds fair to me. Sounds like they need to spend less time on the practice field and studying the play book and more time studying thier math book.

Sons school team, coach requires a 3.5 or you don't play. If my son got a D or an F. The school wouldn't have to say you can't play. Mom or Dad would say you're done. Grades are much more important. He knows it and maybe just maybe it has pushed him to be a better student.

As a former teacher (and as a parent), I do not agree with what the new principal has done. I also don't know the circumstances of the school and who makes up the general population. Is this because students don't attend class? Or is it because the students are just having difficulty learning the material that the state says they have to learn and maybe it's just meaningless to the general population? Are they teaching or just shoving meaningless material at them so that they will pass state requirments? Is it fair to punish a segment of the population (athletes) when the entire population is also doing poorly? If you are a good student athlete, have done all that you are supposed to do and you get one D in a week you miss out, when most likely you could have just had a bad week? Success should be measured by each semester, not week by week. I don't find that fair. The principal is using athletes to solve the issue, could be that the athletes are teh BEST students in teh school? You can't play without a required GPA. How about taking those out of the sports programs who are not on target to graduate?

The principal is holding the students accountable, that's a good thing. Is he holding the teachers accountable as well? Parents? Most schools that fail do so because the teachers don't know how to teach and get very poor parental support. We see this in Florida. Schools here receive grades A-F. If the school is a D or F school, teachers don't get raises. But then again here, most of the teachers who shouldn't be teaching, or newly graduate teachers can only get jobs in the D or F schools without tenure. It takes a special type of person to teach special type of students. Better yet, who measures whether the teachers are doing theri job?

While most of you know I am always stating how important education is, is this problem truely the fault of only the students? Who else is being held accountable?

Most of us do our job as parents well, usually there is a mom and dad at home to give you guidance, set rules, in many failing schools, this is not the case. So let's not hear how we as parents would handle our kids if they didn't do well in teh classroom regarding sports, because most likely your kids have a lot of everything else in theri lives, some kids do not, sports is very important to them and in some cases, a way to make a better life.

I'd like to see the article and find out more about the school. I may be way off base.

HBO recently had a special on an inner city school in Baltimore that had similar problems and how they were dealing with it before the state came in to take over. This involved lots of work on everyone's part, and over the years they measured their success by higher graduation rates. It also focused on some students who were athletes, and how important their athletic program was to keep pride and self esteem among the entire school population.
This situation sounds similar. It also made me realize, what we take for granted (beautiful safe school with middle-upper class students, A plus teachers) doesn't always exist.

Coach May,

Would you mind stating clearly whether the weekly report is a grade for the work of that week only, or if it is a cumulative grade for all the work done since the beginning of term? Or perhaps there is some other meaning?

My own reaction is that if the report is cumulative in nature, it is a reasonable requirement. If it is a weekly snapshot, I think it is likely counterproductive.

This school is predominantly black. If that matters I dont think it does. The teachers in NC are held accountable if their students fail end of year testing by the state of NC. They must jump through a tremendous amount of hoops when one fails. They can be released from their contract for a poor passing rate of students taught.

The students that do not participate in extra activities at the school just fail. The ones that do participate have to pass the new standards or they dont play. The principal is trying to say if you have the time to play a sport or do band you need to also find the time to do good in school as well. If you can not then you will have some extra time to work on your school work.

It is my understanding it is where you stand at that time for the semester. You could have a C in the class this Friday but because of a poor test grade be at a D this Friday. I hope this makes sense the way I typed it.

My sons old school had something similar to this. Each week if you were failing you could not participate. It was a cumulative grade not based on just that week. In many situations the F grade resulted because homework had not been done. Kids caught up on homework and it brought their grade above an F and they were eligble the following week.

CM,
I think that the school being predominately black DOES make a difference.

So where does the student who has to work upteen hours a week to help support their family come into this? They to have to find the time to study as well, seems like just a segment of the population is being punished?

There has to be a better way to raise standards.

JMO.

Then they might have to give up hs sports. If they have to work a job to support the family and they are playing sports and they can not keep up their grades something has to be done.

Its hard to justify kids doing so poorly on test scores that the state is going to move in and take over. Something has to be done. I believe it is directly related to the fact that school work is not a priority to many hs kids that do not do well.

Something has to be done to make them realize that is why they are in school. I have many kids that work jobs. They go to school they practice or work out and then they head to McDonalds etc to work to help ends meet. They study when they get home and they are actually some of the best students.

My kid hardly brought a book home half the time. He did his homework in study hall at school. Most hs kids have more than enough time if they take the time to do it. Until someone puts their foot down and says enough is enough then nothing is ever going to change. School is for school. Sports is not a right its a priviledge. You earn that priviledge after you have done what you need to do in the classroom. JMO. I understand there are kids in tough situations. There are people at every school that will help if you ask. YOU have to care before others will.

Our school (and our conference for that matter) have the same standard, and it is a cumulative grade, not a weekly grade. They base it on whatever your grade is in the class by the end of the week. You then have one week to get your grade back up. In our system you have to be passing four core classes, so the standard is not all that tough, but we consistently have players who can't meet the standard week after week. Our own family standard is much higher and our kids have never had a problem meeting it.

Coach May is right on - kids have plenty of time in school to get done what they need to get done. Talk to most kids and you'll find out that all you really need to do to pass a class (not ace a class, but pass a class) is show up and turn in the homework. Not all that tough. Reality has to set in at some point for these athletes - if it costs them their ability to play sports, then they must not have wanted it all that badly. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
I like it myself. School has got to be a priority over sports. When they get to college their grades are checked pretty often by coaches so someone needs to step up to the plate and make these kids(No matter the activity) take school seriously and not mess around. Its tough but lifes tough.

Most high school athletes won't be playing college sports. They need to take school seriously just to get into college.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
Coach May,

Would you mind stating clearly whether the weekly report is a grade for the work of that week only, or if it is a cumulative grade for all the work done since the beginning of term? Or perhaps there is some other meaning?

My own reaction is that if the report is cumulative in nature, it is a reasonable requirement. If it is a weekly snapshot, I think it is likely counterproductive.

Our school district will look back at the previous week if a kid flunks a week. Athletes have to be real careful at the beginning of a quarter. I've seen a couple of good students benched for having a bad first week or two. Unless the teachers are anti-jock (and some are) they'll tell the kid they need to get makeup work in to fix the grade before the end of the week.

There's a very successful basketball program from a very downtrodden, poverty stricken, close to the city suburb. It's scary violent place to be at night. There are bullet holes in the walls of the schools (been there, seen it with travel basketball). You can just pencil this team into the state playoffs every year. But the coach cares more about grades than championships. Players must get C's or better to play. He threw two starters and a key sub off the team just before district playoffs started three years ago. The parents argued their kids met state standards. The coach informed the parents the kids didn't meet his standards for their future.

Good point RJM. But really at least around here most kids will not go to college muchless play sports past high school. This is going to be the education that they take into life with them.

Its another topic altogether but I remember vocational schools when I was younger. Kids could learn masonry , carpentry etc etc in high school. Those programs have pretty much been taken away. Now you have kids graduating from high school that can barely read and write. There is no plan to go to college. They graduate and then they are in the real world with nothing.

School is about learning and getting a true education. For some kids its the only place they have any structure in their life. For some its the only place they go where they are required by anyone to do anything. The kids that aspire to go to college and are motivated to achieve do not need these types of rules. The ones that do not DO need rules. They dont have people at home pushing them and expecting them to take care of business. Someone has to step up and be willing to take the heat in order to bring about change. Or we could just graduate a bunch of kids that were good high school athletes. Those trophies will not feed them or provide for them in life.

quote:

Originally posted by mythreesons:
Coach May is right on - kids have plenty of time in school to get done what they need to get done. Talk to most kids and you'll find out that all you really need to do to pass a class (not ace a class, but pass a class) is show up and turn in the homework. Not all that tough.

For an ordinary student taking ordinary courses this statement may be correct. For other students it's way off base. However, it's the ordinary student who usually ends up in academic trouble. Academic trouble in our house starts with getting B's.

CM,
I am not disagreeing with you at all on your points.
I just diagreed on how the principal was handling it, he is using the school athletes to boost the schools grades. I definetly agree in any situation that athletes should not be allowed to play if they cannot maintain the required GPA, not because they got a D or F for one week. Hold everyone accountable. In sons school if you didn't do well, you had to come in early or stay late for extra help, no matter if you had a job, played football, or did nothing after school. Also, many students do not have the luxury of study hall.

JMO.

I think everyone needs to watch Coach Carter.

It's not a matter of can't-- it's a matter of won't in many cases. If it is a matter of can't then they need to get the help they need.

RJM you see thats the whole point. Your kids dont need the school to set rules. You set them at home and they know the deal. The kids that need these rules dont have someone at home like you. They need the school to set these rules and to abide by them in order to see change.

RJM,

I agree most HS student wont go to college and play a sport. These kids CM is talking about wont even get to college PERIOD f they dont have someone hold them accountable. Not everyone is like most of the posters on here. There are families who dont put a high priority on school/ As mentioned watch coach carter, Many of those parents fought against the coach when he held them to a standard. They had never held those kids to a standard and thought their sports would take them where they want to be.
I was just stating for some who will play a sport at the next level , they will never make it academically.
Bottom line for these kids and all of our kids is education needs to be the priority,CM mentioned this school has mostly black studetns. Have you seen the percentages of black youth thats going to college in this country. Have you caught any of Bill Cosbys lectures to them about their need to get an education. Less than (Not exact) 5-10% prob. lower of the black american youth are attending college across the nation. I am taking a public health class and numbers are astonishing that more will go to prison than college. Somebody needs to change this, It is not a black issue, it is a society issue. educating society (any one in society) raises the intellect of the entire society not a particular sector.Raising awareness and giving people a future helps the entire populus.
Also TPM, dont know if you saw it but this was not just athletes this was pertaining to in CM post. It was any school activity outside of classroom.

It wouldn't bother me so much if a report card looked like this:
Now for the Report that Counts:
Respect for classmates: A B C D F
Effort: A B C D F
Respect for our school: A B C D F
Self Respect: A B C D F
Attention to detail: A B C D F

* We've all had classes or teachers who just don't record many scores, shoot you could easily be a good serious student and have a D one week, or two or longer if they don't get around to changing it.

* I've had tons of kids that are smart and straight A and they would get straight F's on the report card i have above.

* At my school it's 2 F's on the weekly grade sheet and that works pretty well. Lots of kids who are really good hands-on kids get stuck in math and English classes that they hate and it's tough sailing. If I had to take a welding class I'm sure I'd do a poor job and probably get disinterested. Don't come at me with "math and english are more important than welding" because you know people making more money in vocations that require only a minimum of those topics.

* I could go on all day... I'd sure hate to tell a kid he can't play a sport (especially if I believe that sports are co-cirricular) because of a bad mark in one class.