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Very Unprofessional

coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Last night we had a home game and some of the things the umpires did was EXTREMELY unprofessional in my opinion.

1. Before the game the home plate umpire sat in our dugout before he went to get changed and thrashed other coaches in our region. He was talking about how he would love to run "so and so" from "such and such" high school.

2. Same umpire in same conversation said his partner is a terrible ump. He asked why I hadn't scratched him yet. I told him we hardly have him and when we do have him he does a pretty good job. He said after this game I would probably scratch him because of his performance.

3. Both teams are ready for the game to start but it's raining a little bit and the field is getting tacky. We pitch to one batter and he flies out to our LF in a heavy downpour. We tells both teams to get in dugout. He comes over and says "I'm fat, I'm cold and I want to go home". We stand around and the rain stops. I go out to home plate and the field is tacky but I had diamond dry ready to put on it. The other team's coach came out and said he would wait and even help if we needed it get the field ready. Ump said nope we are going home field was too bad. I know he has the power to do this but our softball team was playing about 40 yards away and got their game in.

4. So now that the umps have made their appearance we have to pay them. I know I can't prove it but I think they did all this just to get the check.

5. We were scheduled for a single varsity game but our secretary fixed the checks up for a varsity and JV game. So the checks had about $35 more on it that it should have. I told the guys of the mistake and said we would mail the checks to them. The other umpire (one getting thrashed by his partner) said he would go ahead and take the check as is. I told him no and he said it would be easier and he had no problem taking it. Maybe he was joking but he didn't come across that way.

So TAKG what do you think of these RAT umps???

Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude. Thomas Jefferson

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piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
I believe you have learned everything you need to know about that Umpire......

Him sitting in your dugout prior to the game is a major issue with me.... I do not want to give anyone the impression that I am biased towards one team or another.......and sitting in the home team dugout schmoozing the head coach gives just that impression.......

I also believe that both issues #1 and #2 are a by-product of the "scratch system"........he is lobbying and schmoozing you and degrading his partner, hoping to up his chances for playoff assignments.....If I have to do that to get a playoff game.......I'd rather not...As to his comment about scratching him..........if you havent yet, I'd be suprized....he is the one that deserved to be scrathed.

As to the decision to call the game, that does lay in the umpires hands........but from his comments and the fact that the next field got the game in, I can understand you may feel that you were done wrong....

I'd advise you to use the system you have in place to correct this issue.....
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Thanks guys - my principal has talked to the assigning secretary about the issue. Not sure of the outcome because I haven't had a chance to ask him.

Garth - you come across as a guy who has a pretty good grasp of baseball rules and could be very helpful in here. The problem is you seem to want to attack coaches because we happen to disagree with umps on occassion.

You are right - coaches don't know all the rules like umps do. That is why the good coaches are in here - to learn the rules, to discuss possible situations because it will make us do our jobs better. That will carry over to a better relationship between coaches and umps.

So please either do the right thing and help out or leave if you just want to stir up trouble.
W Will1,000+ posts
I was around high school baseball for close to 30 year In the beginning I had no problems with umpires then towards the last 10 years there was this confrontational style that crept in with the newer guys. the style where they were always right and how dare you argue or question a call. what is described here is somebody not using common sense. common sense means show up work the game keep your mouth shut about how you feel about other coaches or umpires. common sense ? another thing that seems to have gone away.
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
Garth - you come across as a guy who has a pretty good grasp of baseball rules and could be very helpful in here. The problem is you seem to want to attack coaches because we happen to disagree with umps on occassion.

I want coaches to coach and get over this
idea you have any rights whatsoever to argue anything. Show me a rule that supports that? Show me the spirit of good sportsmanship that supports that. Go on.

You can't so grow up and coach and leave the officiting to those who know the rules (you don't).

quote:
So please either do the right thing and help out or leave if you just want to stir up trouble.

The right thing is to call down coach RATS like you into the world of reality. Umps are not your servants so go kick your dog if you have anger mgmt issues.

Or better yet, RAT, strap up the gear and take the dish. You ready to do that?

Ever.
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
I was around high school baseball for close to 30 year In the beginning I had no problems with umpires


Back when mostly morons ummpired who took any **** you dished out because they had to have the asspennies. Times change.

quote:
then towards the last 10 years there was this confrontational style that crept in with the newer guys. the style where they were always right and how dare you argue or question a call.


Different set of morons, these morons haven't the skills to chase RAT coaches to their houses. At least thay won't put up with the abuse.

quote:
what is described here is somebody not using common sense. common sense means show up work the game keep your mouth shut about how you feel about other coaches or umpires. common sense ? another thing that seems to have gone away.


http://tinyurl.com/65ovmo
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
GARTH

Where is there a rule that says Men in Blue are Gods on the baseball field--put most of you guys in a uniform and your head expands as well as your chest and attitude

Most of you carry a huge chip on the shoulder, sometimes both shoulders, and think you are ALL KNOWING---LOL--not even close

As for coaches questioning everything if most of you guys knew what the heck you were doing there would be no arguments

Your "All Knowing" ID typifies the attitude that prevails
Last edited by TRhit
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
GARTH

Where is there a rule that says Men in Blue are Gods on the baseball field--put most of you guys in a uniform and your head expands as well as your chest and attitude

Most of you carry a huge chip on the shoulder, sometimes both shoulders, and think you are ALL KNOWING---LOL--not even close

As for coaches questioning everything if most of you guys knew what the heck you were doing there would be no arguments

Your "All Knowing" ID typifies the attitude that prevails

Guess who goes home when I say and guess who gets paid regardless.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
GARTH

Where is there a rule that says Men in Blue are Gods on the baseball field--put most of you guys in a uniform and your head expands as well as your chest and attitude

Most of you carry a huge chip on the shoulder, sometimes both shoulders, and think you are ALL KNOWING---LOL--not even close

As for coaches questioning everything if most of you guys knew what the heck you were doing there would be no arguments

Your "All Knowing" ID typifies the attitude that prevails


Are you saying you feel the majority of the umpires you encounter are out of control ego maniacs with little rules knowledge? If so, I would be interested what level are seeing this happen. I work games from LL minors to D1 college to semi-pro and pro fill-in. I don't see this in a large portion of the vocation. Are there jerks umpiring, absolutely. But the same could be said for the coaching side. But as a whole, I think the majority of the guys working are trying to work the best possible and try to improve regularly.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Michael


The majority of the ones we see at the HS and college DO NOT work hard and do not try to learn

EXAMPLE: One of our coaches is on the National HS Rules Committee and in one game the umpire totally blew the call. When coach tried calmly to explain to him he was wrong and coach let him know of his position the ump just walked away

The majority that we run into have egos huger than mine, and I readily admit that is hard to do, and they think they are more important than the game itself

I even see in games I am not part of but just attending as a fan


This has been my experience the past few years here in the Northeast
W Will1,000+ posts
Seems as if there is a trend at least with Garth that coaches just sit on the bench and refrain when some umpire kicks a call or mis interprets a rule.

My last year I questioned a play that occurred. the umpire clearly mis interpreted the rule. I wnt out and made my point. he told me I was wrong and to get off the field. I asked for help from the homeplate umpire . the discussion continued and the homeplate umpire who was more experienced convinced the guy he was in error and the call was corrected. Now the base ump is in a snit because he was wrong. bottom line the play was made right and the opposing coach knew thr guy kicked it and there was no beef by him. an inning later the base ump calls a balk on my pitcher. I ask what he did. No answer. Give me an explanation. am i not entitled to that? he refuses I go out and he runs me. I showed him up an inning earlier because he made a mistake. So it is payback? To Garth. what was i suppose to do just let him make a balk call because he was ****ed at me because I challenged him on a call that he kicked an inning earlier and it was corrected.

bottom line I get tossed out of the game I am suspended for a game because he did not know the rules? Of course a report goes to my AD and principal. I contact the assignor with my side of the story. He works the championship game. go figure
W Will1,000+ posts
Just to show how it was in days gone by. A very good friend of mine who umpires did a game of ours many years ago. I disagreed on a call he made I went out voiced my opinion and went back in the dugout. A couple innings latter another call I thought was questionable. Again I went out to argue(discuss my displeasure) he said to me with a straight face I know I kicked the one before but I got this one right. what could I say. I returned to the dugout. when I see him we still have a good laugh on that one.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
Explain the play that your coach was arguing. In most cases saying you are on the rules committee is inappropriate. It's like a youth coach saying he is a league officer. It will likely be met with an attitude that he trying to use his position to intiminate the umpire. Now if was something that was new he may have a point.
To be honest, I have known guys that been on the committee and it means very little.


quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Michael


The majority of the ones we see at the HS and college DO NOT work hard and do not try to learn

EXAMPLE: One of our coaches is on the National HS Rules Committee and in one game the umpire totally blew the call. When coach tried calmly to explain to him he was wrong and coach let him know of his position the ump just walked away

The majority that we run into have egos huger than mine, and I readily admit that is hard to do, and they think they are more important than the game itself

I even see in games I am not part of but just attending as a fan


This has been my experience the past few years here in the Northeast
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
The hardest part for umpires who are posting in an admittedly coach/parent site such as this is fighting the perceptions of umpires....

MST and I have been here for years offering advice, rulings and insights into umpiring......we have always admitted that there are umpires out there that should not be doing the job....

That being said........I had my chapter meetings last night.... of the 30 or so PONY/Legion/HS/College Umpires that I associate with regularly, most of them work very hard to do a good job and improve.........we have our bad apples....and we try and weed them out or train them to be better.........but even so, there are those that either won't or cant or wont get better........

But in order to cover the games, the assignors are forced to use them.......so in most cases they are assigned lower level games.....if they inquire why they dont get better games.....we tell them that they need to improve........

Some do improve.........some move on to other chapters whose standards are lower....
Last edited by piaa_ump
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Michael is an umpire---what do you expectfrom him?



TR ...

Exactly what you have been getting from MST for years........

From MST you have gotten excellent advice, solid rulings and fair and balanced insight into being a first rate umpire.......

And before you dismiss me as just sticking up for the blue side........I'd side with you if someone was tried to persuade me your intentions were less than honorable......

I've known you both for too long..... Big Grin
Last edited by piaa_ump
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Michael


The majority of the ones we see at the HS and college DO NOT work hard and do not try to learn

EXAMPLE: One of our coaches is on the National HS Rules Committee and in one game the umpire totally blew the call. When coach tried calmly to explain to him he was wrong and coach let him know of his position the ump just walked away

The majority that we run into have egos huger than mine, and I readily admit that is hard to do, and they think they are more important than the game itself

I even see in games I am not part of but just attending as a fan


This has been my experience the past few years here in the Northeast

Followed by my experience as an umpire. RATS don't learn rules, they learn tricks within rules. Most umpires don't give a shat. It's dollars to them only.

I have maybe four umps I will call with. Two of them on any night will refuse to go out on fly balls, hustle to position or take a few steps to gain angle on a steal. It's pathetic. Period.
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Will:
Seems as if there is a trend at least with Garth that coaches just sit on the bench and refrain when some umpire kicks a call or mis interprets a rule.


Bzzzzzt. Wrong. Rule misinterpretations call for logical protests. If the protest is not done correctly, guess what, you lose. How many protests have I had? 50 or more. How many ended up in replay. One. Kicking a call? Sine you don't know the rules, and you are sitting way over their in the dugout, you are a good judge of a kicked call?

OK, let's say with your Superman vision you see a kicked call. So what? You acting like an a$$ is going to get what accomplished? Nothing.

quote:
My last year I questioned a play that occurred. the umpire clearly mis interpreted the rule. I wnt out and made my point. he told me I was wrong and to get off the field. I asked for help from the homeplate umpire . the discussion continued and the homeplate umpire who was more experienced convinced the guy he was in error and the call was corrected. Now the base ump is in a snit because he was wrong. bottom line the play was made right and the opposing coach knew thr guy kicked it and there was no beef by him. an inning later the base ump calls a balk on my pitcher. I ask what he did. No answer. Give me an explanation. am i not entitled to that? he refuses I go out and he runs me. I showed him up an inning earlier because he made a mistake. So it is payback? To Garth. what was i suppose to do just let him make a balk call because he was ****ed at me because I challenged him on a call that he kicked an inning earlier and it was corrected.

bottom line I get tossed out of the game I am suspended for a game because he did not know the rules? Of course a report goes to my AD and principal. I contact the assignor with my side of the story. He works the championship game. go figure

Go figure how to protest, RAT. You blew it. Take your whine and cheese, RAT, back to our RAThole.

TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
garth

I don' think you want to go there because you will be made a bigger fool than you are now

I also undertstand that this is last web site you are permitted to be on so far--you have been banned from all others

It won't be long until you are banned here--I am not a moderator on this site any more but I have gotten more PM's / Emails regarding you than any other poster ever and I have been on this site from Day One
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
I have some helpful information for you.

There are exactly two categories of people who might read any
article you post. The first group comprises those who know you're
a liar, a plagiarist, a fraud and an idiot. The second includes
only those who have never heard of you. If you want to maintain
as good an image as possible, don't ever post again. Your lies
and incoherent nonsense just give the first group an opportunity
to laugh at you, and any of the second group who see that ****
will immediately migrate to the first. So your best bet is to
shut up.
MN Mario New HavenMember
quote:
Originally posted by The All Knowing Garth:
I have some helpful information for you.

There are exactly two categories of people who might read any
article you post. The first group comprises those who know you're
a liar, a plagiarist, a fraud and an idiot. The second includes
only those who have never heard of you. If you want to maintain
as good an image as possible, don't ever post again. Your lies
and incoherent nonsense just give the first group an opportunity
to laugh at you, and any of the second group who see that ****
will immediately migrate to the first. So your best bet is to
shut up.


You went too far in making your comments personal. The OP leads me to conclude that this umpire was indeed a "rat". He insulted his partner and pracically stole money from these coaches. If he were a member of my association, he would want to think twice before ever stepping onto a ball diamond again.
Last edited by Mario New Haven
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
the coach /ump relationship has always been on the edge.

i think the original post showed how much we need good umps.....any umps really. baseball has grown quickly and in some cases the need for umps can't keep up.


i would like to thank piia ump and all the others for posting answering questions here. i have been here a few day's and can't tell you how much i've learned here. thank you.

garth.
you are a touchole.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
20dad


I am with you

I am not a lover of men in blue but the discussions in this forum are great even for me as a coach

As for Garth I would ask the moderator of this forum to ban him as he has banned on other websites

The idot is a cancer in the nth degree


GARTH
I truly feel sorry for you and your family---how do they put up with you?
Last edited by TRhit
TA The All Knowing Garth10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Mario New Haven:
You went too far in making your comments personal. The OP leads me to conclude that this umpire was indeed a "rat".


PIAAump is a scoundrel of the first degree.

quote:
He insulted his partner and pracically stole money from these coaches. If he were a member of my association, he would want to think twice before ever stepping onto a ball diamond again.

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