VHSL Conference Alignment Plan 2013 - 2015

As of this spring, there are no "district" tournaments.  There will be "Conference" tournaments relative to the new alignment.  It is my understanding that the top 2 teams from each "Conference" will move on to the "Regional" tournaments.  Then the top 2 from each "Region", the North and South, will create a final four for the State Tournament.  Personally, I'm not a huge fan.  I think a state tournament with only four teams is somewhat misguided.  Especially in the absence of a "Championship Series" of some kind.  Programs are also left playing at least one less game, potentially two, when compared to the previous format.  Less game competition is a losing proposition for me.

As it regards who may or may not benefit;  in general it seems to me that quality programs who have competed at the previous AAA level, but will now be 4A (thereby grouped with some programs who were previously AA) will benefit.  And perhaps, some of those who were previously Group AA, who now are 4A will face stiffer competition, in some cases.  At the very high end (5A, 6A), and the very low end (1A,2A), at least from a competitive standpoint, I don't know that there will be much of a difference.  They will generally compete against most of the same programs they otherwise would have.

Thanks for the information.  In addition I was trying to figure out what triggered this?  In the meeting minutes on the VHSL website they refer to the VIAAA Resolution?  I am still trying to figure out what that is exactly as the minutes are pretty vague.

Just curious is all

I am learning a lot about VA sports by being curious of this issue. 

http://www.viaaa.org/

I did not know until now there was a Virginia Interscholastic Athletic Administrators Association.  Learn something new everyday.

"I was trying to figure out what triggered this?"

Over years, some schools gain population, others lose population, and new schools spring up as well.  It was roundly acknowledged that there were disparities in the A/AA/AAA groupings that needed to be addressed.  For example, Colonial Heights has something like 800 students, but it was in the AAA Central District with 2000+ Thomas Dale and in the AAA Central Region with 2,200+ James River and Cosby.  Meanwhile, you had Powhatan with 1400 in AA right next door to similar sized Midlothian in AAA.

All that needed addressing, but it didn't need this mess.

Three groupings were fine.  They just needed to clean those up and that was all.  Now we have districts AND conferences, which probably means the districts will fade away over time as people seek to eliminate the confusion.  So now we have James River and Cosby playing Franklin County and Patrick Henry of Roanoke for Pete's sake.  I don't think anyone anywhere asked anyone to do this, and the stubborn refusal to admit the screwup and go back to simplify things is ... well, all too typical of these sorts of decision-making bodies. 

The other thing this does is make each state championship less meaningful.  When there are 120 programs in your grouping and you end up # 1, to me that means more than if you win a tournament with 50 or 60 teams.  And having six teams all laying claim to a state championship just rubs me the wrong way. 

I've discussed all of this over and over during the last two years, so I'll keep this short, but:

1. As Midlo Dad says, everyone knew there were alignment problems.  But they could have been fixed with some modest changes to the existing set-up.

2. The VHSL, however, wanted more championship events.  The smaller schools also liked that, because it gave them better chances for championships.  The AAA schools voted against this plan, but not in numbers great enough to offset the overwhelming small school support.

3. A state with a population of 8+ million people does not need six state champions in any sport other than football (and even that is debatable).

4. Because the VHSL is only really concerned about the championship events, they will be very "hands-off" on implementing this plan (see also the out-of-season practice rules).  So, you're going to see all sorts of varying decisions on how to implement this from area to area and sport to sport.

5. This will be a mess, especially in some of the minor sports.

Thanks guys for sharing this info with a newbie.  I can understand having to revisit due to changing populations etc..

 My son will be in the 5A North conference 15, as a parent my concern is the increased amount of travel to play the other teams now in that conference.  I will miss many of the road games.

We used to be in Cardinal District which was pretty much all teams very close to home.  Now we have to go down to Stafford etc....

You are still in the Cardinal District for regular season play.  You don't have to schedule your conference mates for non-district games, but they are who you're competing with for post-season berths.  Playoffs may require greater travel than before, but the first 20 games will be up to what your coach decides to do in scheduling.

I am an interested " by stander".in this but----- My son coaches volleyball and baseball in what was  BEACH 6A??? Was the realignment to level competition related to enrollment. based only on TOTAL student numbers ?.More "potential"; athletes to draw from? That's tough to manage. 

I am not sure if there is a good way to do the new system, i am with you guys in i am not sure if having 6 state champs is the right solution, but i don't think it waters down the fact you are state champs, because you still have to win the same amount of games with the same pitching rules, yea the old school me thinks it is not as great to say you are THE state champs or 1 of only 3, but state champs are still state champs and they will be just as proud.  The reason i don't think there will be a good solution is because unless the school districts rezone to make the population of an area somewhat the same, you will have an area with some big schools and the rest smaller and not another big school around so they will have to travel or play teams quote unquote not at the same level. But to go back to the other thing (Central Va Tom) of out of season practice rules, man that is what i think is a bigger mess, say you have 2 districts in a conference (which is common) one district will restrict to say 15 days, while other teams in the same conference  but different district allows no restrictions, seems to me to be an unfair advantage.

to my knowledge all classifications are based on total number enrolled students in a school and is done every 2 years. 

CRT,

Print it, frame it, and put a copy in the "I told you so file" so you can pull it out in the future to stick it in the faces of the VHSL decision makers.  I totally agree with everything you've said.  As it turns out commons sense isn't that common.    My biggest concern is #4. 

Simple explanation: the VHSL gets the money from the playoffs, so more playoffs= more VHSL revenue...

This setup will generate a significant increase in revenue.  What is that money used for?  Do the participating schools get a share of the revenue they generate?

Will it really generate more revenue?  At the old Eastern District playoffs at ODU there could be crowds numbering several hundred paying $10-$11 to get in.  I don't see where that will happen going forward.  These games will be played at HS home fields in front of crowds of 100 or so.  There may be more games but it will be friends and family and a few of us junkies.  I doubt I would make the trip for a 5A state quarterfinal to the western part of the state for any reason short of two first round pitching prospects squaring off and even then probably not.

And for the last several years, the state playoffs at Westfield HS had live streaming of the games for a very modest fee.  I believe there was some discussion on this board that this past year's attendance may have been down from prior years...ie:  Great Bridge folks having to take a day off from work, travel 4+ hours one way, plus hotel, tickets, and food vs. <$10 to live stream.  

Three locations are listed on the VHSL website for the tournaments/"Jubilees".

Will somebody please go to the VHSL and propose a CWS-like State Championship final series?!?!?!?!?!

I understand that the top 2 from both the North and South Regions make the "state tournament".  That gives us a Final Four, so to speak.  (I prefer eight for the state tournament, but that is neither here nor there)

With a Final Four, we should have a double elimination setup somewhat identical to a college Super-Regional.  I can't stand the one and done tournament format for baseball.

Between SOLs, Finals, and the Summer team schedule right on the heels of Spring ball, one and done is preferable. We want these boys to secure the best grades possible.

I like the setup.

Keewart- Right on the money there.  Had one on the 2011 club and that trip was easily about $250 plus the hassel of getting in and out of the DC area.  No player = no trip for sure including this year where there were kids playing that I have watched or coached when they were starting out.  Would have considered Richmond or Petersburg...but no to DC.

I personally can appreciate all of which you mentioned, but I do not see how any of those things would be a detractor.  One can play a final four in 3 days.  In such a case, none of the above would be impacted any more than it already does.  

As an aside, and I'm not positive...but I'm pretty confident, that exams and SOLs and such are done prior to the state championship weekend in baseball.  The state jamboree is literally the last weekend of school.

And of course it works the opposite way (or doesn't work) for the FFX and LC schools.

If my kid were playing, we more than likely would make the $acrifice to go watch, which we did as a day trip for the 2 years his team played in the semi-finals. However, we set the grandparents up with the live stream since they were 4 hours away.  Granddad pulled the baseball chairs into the bedroom where the computer was located to watch the game ... for the full effect! 

A more central location would be nice (isn't Ashland "the center of the universe?), or at least rotate the location of the Jamboree every several years.  But, why beat the dead horse.  VHSL seems set on Westfield, which I agree does have a nice set up.

The AAA "jubilee" was at Christopher Newport for a few years, ending in 2007.  It's been at Westfield since 2008. 

It's time it got rotated out of NoVa, IMHO.  6 years is long enough for it to have been in one region. 

But A and AA levels have been elsewhere, so I am not sure I know how the whole 6-level system will start working this year.

According to the VHSL site, the 6A-5A jubilee will remain in Westfield.  The 3A-4A jubilee will be in Lynchburg at Liberty U, and the 1A-2A jubilee in Radford/Salem.

Another angle on "not liking have Westfield HS hosting every year...the backstop is literally only 12 feet from homeplate.  A major part of high level baseball is a catcher that can receive, block, etc. the best pitching.  A passed ball at any college style field automatically results in an extra base for all runners (most times even the runner at 3rd)...a passed ball at Westfield HS and the runner at 3rd would almost never score.

I think this is a big part of the game and should be weighed in when the VHSL decides where to host the biggest games of the season.

I did not realize that the backstop is so close. I've seen backstops more like 60' from home plate, which is also a problem. But I tend to doubt that sort of thing will figure into the ultimate decision.

Really, being able to throw a bad or good curve with a man on third with very little chance of him scoring is huge especially when a dominate pitcher is on the mound.

1) Not as if WHS' backstop is an outlier.

2) When you get to that stage of the states, you've got a damn good catcher behind the dish who's blocking down everything, regardless of the backstop distance.

3) Certainly doesn't cut down on runs, e.g., the Hanover/Oakton game was 9-8 in the semis.

We're stretching things here. You can't escape the notion that WHS can handle the big crowd across all Spring sports (seats, parking, etc.), and with that crowd comes significant sponsorships from the local businesses. VHSL HAS to tap into that revenue stream.

There's too much money in NoVa for the VHSL to ignore. Follow the money.

I agree, but a really short backstop is not going to figure into the equation.

Looks like the 5A-6A tournament is now at Robinson Secondary School, (still northern VA, Fairfax County).

http://www.vhsl.org/athletics.baseball

Head-scratcher. Smaller seating capacity vs. Westfield. No hanging out down the 1st or 3rd base fences. There's a hill behind the 3rd base side with a few park benches. Porta potties. Small concession stand. Happy that it's in FFX, but for a state tournament? Hotels close by, and about 5 minutes from Rt 66.