Visiting a college

As long as you are not in a dead period you can stop in. If coach is not available someone can help you.
Is your son an 09? They can't call if he is.

2008

I would call and make sure it is okay to drop in at a specicic time and date. They may suggest a time and date that works for them.

My suggestion would give them a call or email them and make positive contact.

It is much more effective if you can make positive contact with a coach, even though the head coach or even the recruiting coach may not have time to meet you, they can assign someone to meet you and give you a tour.

We had visited a school unannounced and one of the coaches (not the head or recruiting) happened to be in the office. Even after we introduced ourselves, he did not know us from Adam, and when we asked him for a recruiting package, he said that if the head coach or his brother who was a scout, did not know us, we would have a very little chance of getting on the team. We were pretty turned off.

He did not know that he was one of the top recruits in the state and when the recruiting coach came by a tournament he asked me if and where he was committed, I told him he was committed to another school in the same city!

Bottom line, better to make contact with them, hopefully you had already sent them introduction letters and had made contact with them at this point.

2008, be more aggressive. JMO.

I would strongly encourage you to not show up unannounced. There is a wide variability with coaches in those situations. Some are exactly as described by Homerun04, some aren't that good. There is nothing worse than having your son embarrassed if the coach does not respond well when you show up, or even worse, says he doesn't have time for you.
It is sort of funny. My alma mater made a lot of headlines a few years back in basketball. A 7 footer in England wanted to play in the US. Dropped a book of US colleges on a table and it opened to UOP. He called and a coach answered. All of that eventually led to his attending and UOP getting into the NCAA's more than once.
You would think every recruiting coordinator in every college sport would know that story. Regretfully, even the recruiting coach for the UOP baseball program at that time didn't know it. He doesn't have that job anymore.
Showing up unannounced is high risk for the way your son gets treated. That is not the way it should be, but it is the way it can be.

quote:

Originally posted by Homerun04:

We had visited a school unannounced and one of the coaches (not the head or recruiting) happened to be in the office. Even after we introduced ourselves, he did not know us from Adam, and when we asked him for a recruiting package, he said that if the head coach or his brother who was a scout, did not know us, we would have a very little chance of getting on the team. We were pretty turned off.

That was a pretty smug answer by the coach if you ask me, sometimes we learn alot about coaches and their staffs when not being one of their top choices or not knowing who one is. What harm was there in giving a recruiting package?

There could be a reason why they have not called back, maybe not aware your son is an 08 but IMO it is rude. HC's have assistant coaches to return calls and assistant coach volunteers, sometimes a secretary to return calls. Try to find a number for the bb office, leave a specific message you will be in town and if you don't hear anything stop in since you are going to be in the area. Hey what have you got to lose at this point?

JMO.

I was once talking to a top 10 Divison 1 college at a HS Tournament and a player with his parents approached the coach. The coach was like " Oh God". The player clearly did not have the talent to play at that college, everyone knew it, but the player, mom and dad. But the coach was nice and talk to them anyways and suggested other colleges he could attend. A little pointer, if the college coach thinks you can play he will contact you esp if he at a tournament you are playing in.

The same college told me he gets letters, phone calls, emails from 5,000 players a year. Very few players that they have interest in they did not already know it.

But it does happen, the college coach did not know about a player at this tournament, went to see him play and signed him next year. he might have had a heads up on him. The player was wearing that colleges hat when he pitched.

quote:

ifdad: I would strongly encourage you to not show up unannounced. There is a wide variability with coaches in those situations. Some are exactly as described by Homerun04, some aren't that good. There is nothing worse than having your son embarrassed if the coach does not respond well when you show up, or even worse, says he doesn't have time for you

hey it's great if they are courtious enough to return your contact ..

if not, it seems like a good oppoprtunity for YOU to evaluate THEM -
if ya have an "uncomfortable experience" dropping by would you want to risk 4 yrs of the same??

that's how lists become "short lists"

Bee -
I would agree. It's tough, but it's important to remember that this process is a "two-way" process. Impressions are being created on both sides.

quote:

by bbguy: Bee -
I would agree. It's tough, but it's important to remember that this process is a "two-way" process. Impressions are being created on both sides.

I don't disagree with that, and Frank is also correct that a large # of players/parents make contact with coaches who do not THEN or will EVER have any interest in their player -

intro letters are great to begin the recruiting process, but some mistakenly think that the intros/profiles/calls, etc can generate interest at a level higher than the player is capable getting by his "game play"

that said, NO interest is NEVER an excuse for NO COMMON COURTESY

some of the rude behavior described above is a red flag & I'd have no problem letting them know - whether to a legit prospect SA or just a plain old student .. those guys are representing their college to the community & the public

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
if not, it seems like a good oppoprtunity for YOU to evaluate THEM -
if ya have an "uncomfortable experience" dropping by would you want to risk 4 yrs of the same??

that's how lists become "short lists"

Bee> I think your point is very valid. It seems to me, though, that if your son has already sent them information and makes multiple calls to the coaches that he is visiting and would like to meet them, the lack of any response or acknowledgment of the calls tells you, perhaps, everything you need to know.
I absolutely do not have any problem with making the visit and seeing how it goes. I would just, speaking from one experience where our son actually did have an appointment, make sure my son knew what he might expect, including everything from the coaches not being there, to being unavailable, to being rude and not showing the time of day, to being wonderfully helpful.
Frank, I think some of your points are valid also. I do believe top 25-50 programs have identified nearly every player in which they will have an interest. On the other hand, in CA for instance, there is still a plethora of players who are very talented and don't showcase or do travel teams. They may not be players for top 25 programs, but they can sure play and contribute for teams from 50 and below.
We have a good friend who transferred last year from a DIII to a DI for non baseball reasons. He, his DIII coach, and his high school coach called the DI staff upwards of 15 times. No response. Kid transfers and shows up for walk on tryout day. Is one of the few invited back. After Fall ball, he makes the team and is told he may get some mid week innings in middle relief.
By April, he is the Friday night starter and has most of that schools biggest wins including a shutout of a then top 20 ranked team.
Other than the top 10% or so of the players and programs, there is a lot of variability in appreciating and recruiting baseball talent. Too many recruiting coordinators for programs not in the top 10% fail to recognize the reason the team isn't better is because the coaches aren't working hard enough, IMO. On the other hand, 100% of us parents are perfect on those items.

quote:

Originally posted by obrady:
We are going on a short trip in the near future. It is near a couple of schools that are on my son's list. He mailed them letting them know he was going to be in the area and would like to come by and meet them.

The trip is only a week away and he hasn't heard from either. Should he call, just stop by or skip it, they aren't interested?

This was all the info we got, these schools were on his son's list. And he never said anything about what type of program it was (division, JUCO, etc.).

Sometimes we need more info to give opinions.

quote:

This was all the info we got, theses schools were on his son's list. noidea And he never said anything about what type of program it was (division, JUCO, etc.).

Sometimes we need more info to give opinions.

I have minimal experience with the JUCO route but adequate, I think, for NCAA Divisions I to III.

I would be interested in your views as to why the division would be important to offer suggestions on the inquiry Obrady posed.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martin:
I was once talking to a top 10 Divison 1 college at a HS Tournament and a player with his parents approached the coach. The coach was like " Oh God". The player clearly did not have the talent to play at that college, everyone knew it, but the player, mom and dad. But the coach was nice and talk to them anyways and suggested other colleges he could attend. A little pointer, if the college coach thinks you can play he will contact you esp if he at a tournament you are playing in.

The same college told me he gets letters, phone calls, emails from 5,000 players a year. Very few players that they have interest in they did not already know it.

But it does happen, the college coach did not know about a player at this tournament, went to see him play and signed him next year. he might have had a heads up on him. The player was wearing that colleges hat when he pitched.

I don't see where it matters, to Frank it did, but what might matter is if Obrady's son has been recruited or not, IMO.

I got the impression these were schools on his son's list, he never mentioned whether he was on their list or if they had been recruting him.
The info might then make for clearer suggestions.

Wouldn't you agree?

The school my son is at didn't respond to the questionaire we filled out. I called him after sending a second questinnaire and had not received a reply. I basically told him I was surprised i hadn't heard from him and he appologized and asked for my son's DVD. He called immediately aftert viewing it and couriered an agreed upon offer (NLI).
Sometimes they are too busy shuffling paper or what ever. Get aggressive.

quote:

I don't see where it matters, to Frank it did, but what might matter is if Obrady's son has been recruited or not, IMO.

I got the impression these were schools on his son's list, he never mentioned whether he was on their list or if they had been recruting him.
The info might then make for clearer suggestions.

Wouldn't you agree?

TPM, I find I almost always need more, different or clarifying information whenever I am attempting to respond to a Frank Martin post/thread.
That is why I usually don't.

First of all you can't answer alot of questiosn without knowing more information. Has that college seen him play? Are they full at his position? Can he even get in that college? If really wants to attend that college, attend one of their fall baseball camps.

Has he attended any hs showcase or major tournaments and what did he do there?

I think the most solid advice here is that it IS a 2-way street...the recruiting process. Evaluate both ways.

Personally, I wouldn't take my son to meet the coaches if they hadn't responded to your calls/emails. But I wouldn't write them off either unless its a lot later in the game.

Like us parents, coaches are human too and make mistakes. Sometimes they are rude when in the midst of a bad day (gee, I've never been that - HA! ), sometimes they are polite and gracious (and give a false impression of interest).

I remember one school that our son was interested in. His summer coach talked with the head coach at that school who blew him off and later complained to other friends, "what the heck is he doing trying to pawn off his players on me?" About 2 weeks later he saw our son pitch for the first time and goo-gooed all over him from that point forward. Our son didn't go there, but that incident had nothing to do with it...we just recognized it as mistake-of-the-moment and ignored it in the decision process.

I think we parents don't always want to hear the real message being sent. Listen (including to silence), evaluate the words, evaluate the delivery and move on if thats what it seems to say to you. I am not a believer that there's only 1 school that "fits" your child and we parents aren't always the best at picking the best one anyways.

Good luck!

quote:

by jbb: Personally, I wouldn't take my son to meet the coaches if they hadn't responded to your calls/emails

that does make sense & I'd generally agree, however the OP says:

"We are going on a short trip ... It is near a couple of schools that are on my son's list. He mailed them letting them know he was going to be in the area

your advice has them essentially "avoiding" the baseball office while on campus touring the school

quote:

by jbb: I remember one school that our son was interested in.
His summer coach talked with the head coach at that school who blew him off and later complained to other friends, "what the heck is he doing trying to pawn off his players on me?"
About 2 weeks later he saw our son pitch for the first time and goo-gooed all over him from that point forward...
we just recognized it as mistake-of-the-moment and ignored it in the decision process

maybe you're just being kind, but I think your eval of that exchange would be viewed VERY differently by most - jmo

Bee> - I don't think the coach ever connected the conversation with the summer coach with the player he saw a couple of weeks later. I really don't.

But whatever...it was a school our son was really interested in and once they got on him they did everything right, so why hold a grudge?

And yep, I'd avoid the baseball office...for now. JMO.

quote:

His summer coach talked with the head coach at that school who blew him off and later complained to other friends, "what the heck is he doing trying to pawn off his players on me?"

Thats pretty unusual. Many summer coaches are approached pre-game from college coaches requesting rosters, and the summer coach is usually asked for his opinion on certain players that should be watched a little closer.

Yeah, it was pretty unusual I guess. The summer coach and college coach were old "friends" or so he thought. He talked to him when he ran into him in a restaurant or something...not at any tournament.

quote:

by jbb: Bee> - I don't think the coach ever connected the conversation with the summer coach with the player he saw a couple of weeks later. I really don't.

if true ..

a) his recruiting methods & diplomacy are shabby

b) he burned a valuable bridge

c) presumably even if ya didn't list it on your pros/cons "short list" - it was in the back of your & son's mind ...

heck it pist me off that a college coach would treat a fellow webster that way & I never saw your son play

quote:

by jbb: he ran into him in a restaurant

likely he forgot wallet as well, leaving summer coach to pick-up the tab

Ok, let's start over.

Obrady, give us some more info so we can be more helpful.

Obrady call the coaches. If it is a college your son wants to go to and you are going close by. Make the call. Whats the worst that can happen? At least you will know .

D1 schools, LHP, son rated 7 by PG his sophomore year, I wouldn't expect him to be known in the area since we moved from the SE to the West last year. I would expect him to be one of the late summer people of interest - not one of the top guys on any schools wish list. Son plans on going JUCO - late bloomer - still small frame, solid performer 85 FB.

What else can I add....

Obrady you have a PM

I agree with FM. The school the player is interested in may have already recruited (and signed) another player for that spot. Another way of determining whether the player has a shot at that particular school is to check the current roster and see who's graduating and who's eligible for the draft. Check the rostered player's stats and see if they are a draft possibility. Although with the new NCAA rules coming out on transfers, vacancies of players not seeing much field time is also a consideration.

I recommend making some contact with the recruiting coordinator some how and if they don't return your calls or inquiries after numerous attempts they may not have a spot for you. One last option would be to contact the Athletic Dept. to determine whether you have the right contact info for the coaches or not.

Anyone who has been in sales for a long period of time will tell you that you have to make several contacts inorder to get response from the vast majority of people.
I had been recommended to contact a JC coach who's team had been at the D1 JC WS 4 times in a row. I emailed, phones and tries 10-12 times to contact him. Finally he called me and i wasn't in. I called him back. Finally I got him and he asked for my son's DVD. A month latter he called and said that he was going to make an offer. I didn't like the offer and told him we needed more money. He said he had spent most of his budget on island guys. We turned the offer down. The point is not all coaches are waiting like a bunch of guppies for you to show up. Get aggressive and make the call until you are told they aren't interested. They are busy and may not even know you exist.

Back to the topic...some advice for visiting colleges. It was extremely helpful to meet with players who are actually on the team and/or freshman who have recently gone through the recruiting process. More helpful if the players are currently playing a position your son is looking at. It was an opportunity to ask blunt questions about how it went for them during the "courting" phase and how they were feeling about things now, what was the baseball workout schedule like, academics, dorm life, etc. We learned more about the program (and validated what we were told by the coaches) and got a good feel for things in the very brief time we met with the players. Not to take away from meeting with the coaches..that's pretty important to. But it's interesting to see what the coaches show or tell you as "important" and what the players feel is important.

There was a discussion (not currently..maybe a year ago) in which posters suggested trying to contact players on the roster. I'm not sure how you'd do that. I'm trying to put myself in my son's shoes and wondering how he'd feel about getting an email from somebody asking about the program..and I think he'd be receptive. Wouldn't have much time to talk..but would at least be able to answer questions.

Newcomer the topic was about Obrady's situation.

My son is an 09. Is it too soon to send out intro letters to college coaches?

mrslebo,

My son is 09 too, we have been sending letters via e-mail since aug. Will contunue through the winter.

Spend some time reading through past threads in this forum. The content here is INVALUABLE. There is plenty to do between now and next fall.

Good luck

quote:

Not to take away from meeting with the coaches..that's pretty important to. But it's interesting to see what the coaches show or tell you as "important" and what the players feel is important.

I disagree. The coachspeak far outweighs what the current players have to say, because....

I would think each player is "courted" differently, and many here have said each case is unique.

The best visits are naturally in the Fall. You get a good first impression of the campus and its vibe with students on the go as classes are in session.

Most dorms are, well, dorms. A bunch of crackerbox rooms, and I would guess the same holds true today that it did 30 years ago when I was in college. You try and spend as little time as possible in them.

Then, at the coaches request, you attend a practice, squad games, and most likely they will put you in the dugout.

On one of our visits, the campus and town were great. The freshman dorms were horrible, and the recruiter who gave the tour even mentioned that after the first year, you go to the baseball house.

Then lunch with the head coach, and off to the field. The head coach wanted my son in the dugout, and I opted for the bleachers. It was about 99 degrees in the shade. After a while, the HC insisted I spend time in the dugout with he and son.

Within one minute I knew it would be a horrible baseball FIT. The first available moment my son had a chance to express his thoughts to me, he said, "lets get outta here". Sensing our desire to split, the recruiter strolled over and asked us to stay a bit longer, and quietly said " he is screwin this up, ain't he".

We chuckled, shook our heads, thanked the assistant coach, and proceeded to head home. On the 4 hour ride back home, son got 4 weekly cycle calls from others.

Yes, we invested 8 hours of driving, the university passed all the FITS except the baseball one. Even a tremendous baseball grant would not have affected a change in decision.

I won't detail any of the conversations in the dugout or during the entire visit, but the questions were nothing but standard. It was some of the answers that were bizzare?

OldSlugger, I don't doubt that you can learn a LOT -- both good and bad -- from talking with the coaches. But a lot can also be learned from the players. Recently, HSBBW friends put us in touch with two player at a program we're considering. We were interested to hear their "take" on not only the program, but the new head coach. They shared that their former head coach -- who was let go -- didn't know what the heck he was doing, and they gave specific examples. They also shared very positive things about their new coach, which helped us form a more full picture.

We have heard players say negative things about their coach or program in the past, and it has prompted us to ask questions. Oftentimes, players can give you a peek into areas the coaches may not want you to know anything about.

quote:

We have heard players say negative things about their coach or program in the past, and it has prompted us to ask questions. Oftentimes, players can give you a peek into areas the coaches may not want you to know anything about.

I feel I don't have the right on a college visit to probe a student-athlete. Each case is unique.

What if some of your Q and A was tainted with sour grapes ? Then your process becomes skewwed.

You don't have the right to ask questions which will help you determine whether the school and its baseball program will be a good fit or not??

On an oficial visit, you can ask questions like:
"Do you like playing here?
"What do you think of the coaches?"
"Do you feel like you've gotten good opportunities to grow and develop here?"

Away from campus, you can ask more direct questions.

In the past year, we have communicated with 7-8 players from various schools either via a series of emails or phone calls. Not ONCE have we encountered a player who was reluctant to talk with us. We have also gotten helpful information from parents of college players. We have appreciated and greatly benefitted from ALL of the input.

As far as sour grapes, you're right -- one player who has had a negative experience does not mean the program is bad. However, that can prompt you to ask additional players at the school about their experience. If several have bad things to say, that's a red flag in my book.