was this the right call?

Why was the batter running to first base on a ball that was clearly in foul territory and had no possibility of being fair?("ball falls next to fence".
Folks, please do not tell me he was hustling just in case it was a fair ball--he had to know where the ball was just by where the pitcher and catcher were running to. What about his first base coach?

IMO if he interferred with a catchable ball he should've been called out. Fielders have right to make play without interference.

Moc1

Good question. The batter also has a right to the running lane. Was he in it? How close was the fense? It could be argued that the ball could spin or be wind-blown back into fair grounds and that the runner was hustling just in case. Besides, a ball is not foul until it lands in foul territory or is caught in foul territory. It is a live ball and the runner has every right to the lane. I would be interested in the correct answer also.

The running lane is irrelevant to the discussion. It only comes into play when there is a play being made on him at first. On a play that the fielder is trying to catch a pop-up then the runner HAS to avoid.

Why was Mike Piazza running to first when Roger Clemens threw the end of the broken bat? The ball had been fouled off into the dugout. I always bought Clemens' excuse because of that. I don't think he expected Piazza to even be there.

It really seems that the runner still should have been alert to the approaching fielder, and avoided the contact.

the runner was running to first because thats what he was taught to to run until the umpire call it fair or foul ,when you got your head down digging and running in the lane i think you got the ride of way

The runner is out unless the ball goes outside the fence and playing field.

Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!

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Originally posted by g.c.h.s.-dad:
the runner was running to first because thats what he was taught to to run until the umpire call it fair or foul ,when you got your head down digging and running in the lane i think you got the ride of way

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Change the play to the foul ball being on the line. The F1 is fielding the ball and has a collision with the BR. In this case it is a simple interferencew call. Even though the BR is in the lane the fielder gets the line and the runner has to avoid. Look at it this way, who is able to watch for the collision? The fielder is looking up at the ball, the runner is looking at first. The runner has a lot better shot at seeing the fielder. Again the running lane is irrelevant.

If the fielder is under the ball and the runner block him it is an interference, but in this case the runner is running by the line and the fielder is trying to catch a ball that is close to the fence. I am not sure about this one.

"Peace is, the respect for the other people's rights".
Benito Juarez

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Originally posted by ChicksDigTheLongBall:
The runner is out unless the ball goes outside the fence and playing field.

Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!

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No one had the right answer. Just being in the running lane doesn't give the BR the "right-of-way". He/she must avoid a fielder making a play on the batted ball. However, only ONE fielder is afforded protection. Since F2 (the catcher) was the first fielder, F1 (pitcher) was not afforded protection. Since the ball was "uncatchable", there cannot be interference.

As for running on an "obvious" foul ball, the ball is not foul until it goes into dead ball teritory, touches something or someone in foul territory, or stops in foul territory. If an untouched ball spins back fair before passing 1B or 3B, it's a FAIR BALL.

I'll bet not one of you who answered is/was a trained, qualified umpire.

MOC1: You claim to have played college and AAA pro ball. How would your college coach or pro managers reacted if you didn't run out a popup?

Bob

thanks bob,if you stand and watch a ball drop foul on my sons team you get to run after the game and are most likly to get pulled from game,this event happened last year and it was not my kid that was involved. just thought i would ask to see if the ump. made the right call,there was no way the pitcher could have made a play on the ball but thats baseball as a friend of mine says "you win some you lose some and some get rained out"

Wasn't aware that this forum was only for "expert" umpires to respond to, Blue, by the way my answer was correct.

Ball dropped next to fence, have never been in or played in a park where the fence was close enough for a ball to drop next to it and then land in fair territory. We're not talking about a pop-up that had a chance of being fair according to the description. Of course all pop-ups are run out. When is the last time you saw a batter run to first base
on a foul ball straight back that the catcher caught next to the fence? Again, "next to the fence" are the important words here.

As far as your cynical comment about my claims in my profile-do a little more research if
you feel the need to get personal. Any player running out an "obvious" foul ball near the
fence would be needled unmercifully by his teammates as well as the coach/manager. It's called false hustle.

Moc1

quote:

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Originally posted by Moc1:
Wasn't aware that this forum was only for "expert" umpires to respond to, Blue, by the way my answer was correct.

Ball dropped next to fence, have never been in or played in a park where the fence was close enough for a ball to drop next to it and then land in fair territory. We're not talking about a pop-up that had a chance of being fair according to the description. Of course all pop-ups are run out. When is the last time you saw a batter run to first base
on a foul ball straight back that the catcher caught next to the fence? Again, "next to the fence" are the important words here.

As far as your cynical comment about my claims in my profile-do a little more research if
you feel the need to get personal. Any player running out an "obvious" foul ball near the
fence would be needled unmercifully by his teammates as well as the coach/manager. It's called false hustle.

Moc1

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There is no such animal as an "obvious" foul ball. If the popup near the fence hits a pebble, or a raised portion of the dirt, or clump of grass, and caroms back fair, it's a fair ball. Before you comment on the pebble being a foreign object, it's part of the field.

Bob

Bob

Thanks bluezebra,

I wasn't claiming to be an umpire in the know, just guessing what the answer was, so I'm not feeling slammed. It seems I was partially right (not foul until it hits foul) and the possibility of it returning to fair ground, however unlikely, justifies running. I didn't know about the F1/F2 etc. scenario (since I'm not an ump and don't claim to be one), so I learned something today.

The "Uncatchable" issue should cover the situation, but apparently the ump of the moment didn't think it was uncatchable. Wouldn't that make it a judgement call and thus, not protestable/arguable?

Also, how do you determine who is the "first fielder" thus affording the protection to him?

BZ,

I am curious about the first fielder and the second fielder, too.

Is that in the rule book?

the ball lands half way down the line or so not behind f2 the fence is maybe 10 ft. from line ,and this is a big kid [not fat just big] so he`s not the fastest be no means so when he hits the ball he goes ,but like i said earlier this happened last year and its done and over with don`t mean nothing now just thought i`d get yalls opinion not start a stink.

Bob is correct in that you can only grant protection to one fielder. I wasn't thinking along those lines because in the original sitch I got the impression that it was a catchable ball by F1 but not F2. However, if both have a shot then the umpire decides which gets the protection.
Same type of play but two fielders. Pop-up near the line and both F3 and F1 try for the ball. Ball is fair, F3 tries for the ball. At the same time F1 colides with the BR. If the ball is uncaught, then that's obstruction and BR is awarded first. Remember in HS it's a delayed deadball so other runners could be played on.

Which fielder gets the protection, unless obvious, is a judgement call. As for "uncatchable", that's also a judgement call. But, sometimes "judgement" is in conflict with the rules. Popup in foul territory, F3 starts for the catch, is run into by BR. Ump rules interference immediately, but ball lands four rows up in the stands. If ump refuses to reverse the interference, I'd protest.

Bob

bluezebra is right on the money. the batter must yield to the fielder making a play on the ball. this exact scenario happened to my son (as a pitcher) at a recent tournament. the batter lowered his shoulder and plowed him over just as the ball was getting to his glove. he lost his glasses (about 25 feet away), but held the catch. didn't need to though...the batter was out at contact.

http://www.highviewheat.com/index.asp

http://www.kristensfastpitchworld.com/index.asp

quote:

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Originally posted by AgentDad:
bluezebra is right on the money. the batter must yield to the fielder making a play on the ball. this exact scenario happened to my son (as a pitcher) at a recent tournament. the batter lowered his shoulder and plowed him over just as the ball was getting to his glove. he lost his glasses (about 25 feet away), but held the catch. didn't need to though...the batter was out at contact.

http://www.highviewheat.com/index.asp

http://www.kristensfastpitchworld.com/index.asp

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That's malicious contact. If it happened as you described it, the BR is also ejected for malicious conact.

Bob