Watching a College Game ?

Amen coach and I believe in what you are saying 100%. I've even tried that in the past myself. I would take my players on a Sunday to watch a game at Western Kentucky University because we had a kid on the team. After he was done playing we kept going. I would invite the parents to go and several did. It was amusing watching the guys talk about how good those guys were.

It's one thing to see it on TV but it's another to see it live.

Great points and I agree 100%. If you plan on going somewhere it's always good to know where you're going!

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:
.....Just an opinion here. From my area, I'd say 90% of the kids that I see have never been to a college game.

Coach M,

Interesting view point.

If I had a dollar for every time a parent asked an opinion about projecting their son's talent at the next level, I could get the 50" of snow on the driveway cleared (and that is top priority).

Far too many are "scouting" with their ears, instead of their eyes. Full time scouts fail at projecting (98+ %), talent.

I firmly believe that there is something near or on the field in college for many (if not most) HS Players.

I believe this is very good advice. We attended a college fall practice and determined that my son could compete at a higher level. One thing that stood out to us was arm strength as what we observed seemed to be lacking. If people have the time, attend the different levels of baseball including JUCO, D1, D2, D3, and so forth. It very well may help determine where the best fit might be.

If folks do decide to attend either practice or games, you might as well make it a two for one. Contact the coach and let him know you'll be in attendance and see if you can introduce yourselves before the game.

A high school player must be very astute when going to watch a college game. Most young players get very caught up in radar gun readings, flashy defensive plays and length of home runs. Here's my take on the difference between high school and college baseball...

Yes, the velocity is faster. Yes, the defense is better. Yes, the balls are hit farther. But one should look at WHY this is the case. College baseball players have faster bat speed, faster explosive movements, better mechanics and a better head for the game than your average high school player. So when a high school player goes to watch a college game, he should certainly engulf every aspect of it and not just the obvious occurrences, because it's the little things that truly separate the levels of play.

I think what would be even more beneficial would be for a player to attend a college practice (if able to). The one thing that I was taken aback by was the level of dedication required to be a collegiate student-athlete. Sure, I run a lot more than I did in high school and I lift a lot more weights. Sure, the conditioning is a whole lot tougher and my body is a lot more sore. But the dedication goes far beyond the weight room or the practice field. Being a student-athlete in college means having two full-time jobs...you are a matriculated student taking a full time class schedule and you are an elite level athlete, competing against other elite level athletes around the country. It's a very humbling and self-gratifying experience when you go through it and learn, usually the hard way, exactly what it takes to succeed at the college level.

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"If you plan on going somewhere it's always good to know where you're going!"

First driveway to the east after passing under the powerlines...right Fungo?




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CD, I apologize for picking one comment out...but I am intrigued by this comment...

quote:

We attended a college fall practice and determined that my son could compete at a higher level.

While you were obviously correct...I am not too sure that I am able to tell that. How many parents are? I think many(?) believe they can see this...but in reality...based on my own interactions with parents of my sons' ages, they cannot...at least not very accurately.

We've been going to college games for years. I think its had a number benefits. 1) My kids see the hustle involved...up close...in being a college basebally player, 2) they see the talent involved...up close and 3) I believe it has put an attainable dream, right smack in front of them to touch and recognize its possible...and it motivates them.

Watching big league games are great...but at times it seems so untouchable that I don't know that it inspires the way a college game does.

quote:

Many of them have no idea what the level of talent is at most programs.

I'm amazed at the number of kids at my son's high school who think they can play D1 baseball. Most of them would be lucky to play in an above average D3 program. They don't know the recruiting process. These kids are playing on a weak Legion team in a weak Legion league. 83 is major heat in the Legion league. They make fun of the kids wasting their money on showcase teams. The mocking is led by the Legion coach feeding the parents a line. The handful of Legion players who have gone on to college ball over the past few years were found at showcases and camps.

I've taken my son to mid major and major conference D1 to top D3 games. He gets it. There's a lot of work involved to play at the next level.

Coach Merc;
Your comments are "on target". This is mandatory for our players, who have traveled with our Cubs, Rays, Reds teams to Japan, Korea, China and Australia Goodwill Series events.

We arrange meetings with the pitching coaches, hitting coaches and Head Coach. The player needs to know what is the philosophy of each coach. He needs to ask the "right" questions. The major question, how can I improve my quickness and reaction time before the 1st college practice.

Currently, I am suggesting to the HS seniors with suitable skills and tools to play on a college summer team. "This is called get the edge".

Bob Williams

I agree, and as a coach of a variety of different sports I would take the entire team to a local college game.

quote:

It's a very humbling and self-gratifying experience when you go through it and learn, usually the hard way, exactly what it takes to succeed at the college level.

J H, I love your posts and the perspectives you provide on this board. I also love the fact you do it from the views of a DIII student/athlete.
For me, the quote I have borrowed from you is that intangible that I don't think can be seen when you watch the college game through the eyes of a HS player/parent.
To me, watching the college game with our son was not particularly for him to say he could play, it was to make him familiar with the game, to see it was being played by guys he knew, played with and against, to see it wasn't beyond reach.
It was to challenge him competitively and mentally to recognize what he needed to do to be able to play and compete and see if he really wanted to go there.
It was not what he saw in the game being played on the field, per se, it was what he saw that challenged him to know he needed to get better, get stronger, get quicker and faster.
Let me put it this way, through respect for the game, when a HS player watches a college game,the respect factor can hopefully allow the player and parent to look inward to find where the player needs to get better and to realize it is a reach, but one which can be attained. For our son, it wasn't what he watched and saw, it was how what he watched and saw translated into what he could do and most importantly, was not yet doing. It was to create a confidence, an intensity and a competitive situation to get from him from his current skills to what he saw.
I still believe, JH, you provided the insight into what cannot be seen when watching college games through the eyes of the HS player and parent.
Great post.

quote:

First driveway to the east after passing under the powerlines...right Fungo?

LOL, You're right! That should get you close enough to where I could hear you "honk" your horn! WARNING --- Don't pull off the road and get out and walk, "You done landed on Mr. Gilmore's property!"

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If we make that mistake I'm sure we'll get his attention...






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quote:

Originally posted by J H:
The one thing that I was taken aback by was the level of dedication required to be a collegiate student-athlete.

JH, I don't know if there is any way to avoid the shock felt by freshman when they realize that, regardless of how hard they worked in high school, it's a whole new level of dedication required to succeed on campus. We try very hard to get players ready for college, but I think they really have to live it to fully understand.

That being said, I think players need to see games at the next level if they want to go there. On most college campuses, they can get real close to the players and they can compare their own skills to the college players'. It is very helpful when trying to decide where they might fit.

Are most parents astute/objective enough to know whether their kid can play at a certain level? I don't know one way or the other, but I think the kids themselves can get a pretty good idea whether they will be able to compete.

justbb - I have no idea what you are trying to say?

One thing to consider here is that things may be different here on the north coast than they are on the west coast. We don't have scouts flocking to games when it is snowing out in April. My son and I were the only one's here doing evaluations. There was no hsbbweb, there were no scouts around telling us anything, and we were completely unaware of events like PG.

We came up with a plan and he executed it. Part of the plan was attending a fall college practice - kind of like Coach Merc talked about when he started this thread.

In our case, we watched shortstops and infielders throw/field the ball and in our "humble" estimate, they did not fire the ball as hard as he did. We could have been completely wrong about that but it was data that we used nonetheless. Another parent might notice that their 6-4 220 lb junior hits them a lot farther than they do down at the local juco. Should they ignore that or should they just go to these things for the "motivation?"

Perhaps Coach Merc can chime back in on this one to expand on what he meant when he said:

quote:

Watch the talent level of both teams with regard to the position your son plays.

CD, maybe this is variable.
We took our son to UCSB, UOP, USF,Loyola Marymount, Pepperdine, Stanford and he went, on is own to Cal.
He never looked at the middle infielders at any of those games and said he saw anything but very good players. I don't think he saw any tool or skill of his that was as better than what he saw during the game. If he did, he never said anything.
On the other hand, he also saw those guys put their pants on one leg at a time, he had seen a number in HS and played against them.
He felt pretty confident in his ability to compete.
When he was drafted as the DIII guy, he never said anything about the other players. Just expressed confidence he could compete.
So yes, I guess ours used it as motivation, at least from what he discussed.

Here is what I hope my parents and players would come away with.
Difference in size and strength. High School jr's & Sr's as they compare to college freshman and upper class. Do they need to workout more?
Watch pregame... How do we compare? How do the college guys prepare themselves. Is stretching the same as our usual goof around? Can my players see themselves fitting into that role.

Does the college coach raise his voice? does he pamper the player after a mistake? (yes we know the answer to these) Will the player handle this?

Any other thoughts?

Adding to the problem is the fact that many incoming freshman coast thru the summer between HS graduation and entering college and arrive for fall practice in terrible shape

Within 70 miles of my hood there is (3) D3 and (1) NAIA team, slim pickens. The kid and I knew those coaches and went to quiet a few games over the years. We respected and admired the level of play and understood that college baseball was nothing like HS baseball. When he made his official D1 visits they were during Fall practices and the guys were a little bigger, faster, stronger but there was the same respect. He then signed a D1 LOI. It was not until the Spring that he actually attended a D1 college game and came away with 2 observations.


1. He knew he could play with any level
2. He was surprised because there was a smaller difference of ability between the levels than he anticipated.

My point is that you do not have to go to an ACC game to see what college baseball is all about because while there may be a difference in team depth, talent is at every level. My suggestion is to spread your wings within your area, watch different teams, take some notes on things that are different from the HS to college game (btw- contrary to many HS kids beliefs you do learn more from note taking), and enjoy the notion that you are learning and preparing for your future while kicking back watching a game.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:
Here is what I hope my parents and players would come away with.
Difference in size and strength. High School jr's & Sr's as they compare to college freshman and upper class. Do they need to workout more?
Watch pregame... How do we compare? How do the college guys prepare themselves. Is stretching the same as our usual goof around? Can my players see themselves fitting into that role.

Does the college coach raise his voice? does he pamper the player after a mistake? (yes we know the answer to these) Will the player handle this?

Any other thoughts?

Thanks for the clarification Coach Merc and infielddad and rz1. I think I now understand better what justbb was getting at

TR, if that is the truth about the "Lazy" summer before freshman year it is a sad one. My son worked his butt off that summer knowing what he was getting into at a D1 fall season. Scout ball, a few extra rounds in the cage and we got him a trainer to be ready. If a student takes that attitude it's time for Pops to step up and say, "50% scholly don' pay the bills", If you want me to pay the other 50% work your butt off and give it 100%and be ready.
Chris made the team and started at SS, said all the other freshmen were puking there guts out, he was fine, that's when the hard work really pays off.

DDaz

You got it right

I live 45 minutes from 2 ACC programs and 30 minutes from another ACC program. Just 12 miles down the road another D1 program. There is one of the top JUCO programs in the nation just 35 minutes down the road. Another hour down US 64 a top D2 program. You can go see for yourself. I find it hard to believe when a hs player tells me that they really want to play in college but they have never been to a college baseball game. I just find that hard to believe.

The first thing I did when I became a HC was put my team on a school bus and take them to see a college game. I made sure we were there for infield and bp. It was an eye opening experience for many of the players. But it was even a more eye opening experience for the parents that went along. If you think about it what is a kid thinking , a parent thinking when they have never been to a college game at any level? When the only games they have ever attended were the games their son was actually playing in? Why wouldnt you want to see for yourself so you would have an understanding of what your trying to reach?

I know it happens. I have had parents tell me that they know their son can play D2 baseball. And I know they have never attended a college game in their life. Amazing stuff imo. Very hard for me to understand.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:
Here is what I hope my parents and players would come away with.
Difference in size and strength. High School jr's & Sr's as they compare to college freshman and upper class. Do they need to workout more?
Watch pregame... How do we compare? How do the college guys prepare themselves. Is stretching the same as our usual goof around? Can my players see themselves fitting into that role.

Does the college coach raise his voice? does he pamper the player after a mistake? (yes we know the answer to these) Will the player handle this?

Any other thoughts?

What I've found to work best to get HS kids to realize the difference between them and college players is give them a stopwatch. If a HS catcher thinks he's all that with his 2.2 pop time let him time a college guy throwing a 1.9.

Just time all kinds of things in practice one day and make a list. Then go to a college game and give them a stopwatch to measure the things they were measured in and see the difference. They will be very surprised in the difference.

Now be a good coach and parent to get them to strive for that type of performance.

Good post Coach May.

Even coaches pick up some good stuff at games and practice too.

MLB catchers fall in the 1.9 or below range, not usre how many college guys you will find with that time.

Coach Mercs suggestion of scoping out the next level before arriving is very important. I think it is important for players and their families, but for slightly different reasons.

The families have a large commitment to make helping the player get there. It is important to understand the likely possiblity of reaching the goal. The level will sort itself out in time.

The player does need to know at what level he will be successful, before he commits, let alone gets there. A huge part of being successful is knowing he belongs there, before he gets there. There will be plenty of bumps in the road, but knowing he belongs will be a rock to grab on the bad days.

Players know where they will belong. Go watch the games and workouts...way before you sign.

My son and I have been attending ASU games since he was 4. You want to dump $50 on a MLB spring training game (includes a beer, a couple of dogs and parking) be my guest.

You want to see some kids playing like they've got nothing to lose and do the whole thing from $20, go to a D-1 game. I love them.

One of my favorite memories is when my three year old daughter wanted to tag along with her 'big' six year old brother. She brought coloring books and other activities on a back-pack and used them all during pre-game warm ups.

ASU gave up 2 or 3 in the top of the first and then scored about 11 in the bottom of the first. When they changed sides, she packed up all her stuff preparing to leave. I'll never forget the look she gave me when I told her that was just one inning and they play nine innings.

The problem I had was that D-1 baseball looked like a level of play that couldn't be attained without a lot of hard work and a gift from God. I suppose that's still true.

But Jr. is a sophomore 6'3" 215 LHP who sits at 85-86 with good movement. Daughter is a RHP, sitting at 49-50 as an 8th grader with better movement (softball, of course)...

Great thread with some very good advise.
Just remember, while you are watching, you may have the talent but do you have the desire?
The 6 am workouts , 3 to 4 hours of class, and then hours of practice and preparation, with very little "me time". I can assure you, this isn't high school or travel ball. It is extremely intense, year-round.

My son and I went to a good number of college games during his high school years, and so we were both pretty used to seeing the level of the play. I remember walking to the car after and Oregon State/Stanford game (where I saw Erik Davis pitch a complete game win, and met JBB) and the Stanford players were all gathered at a corner waiting for the team bus to come.

At this time, my son was on Stanford's radar, and he had just met Coach Stotz after the game. We looked at the team gathered as we walked by them. I asked him: "Do you think you will be ready to play with those guys in one year?"

I don't think anything can actually prepare a kid for the demands of D1 baseball. We talked about it a lot, how it is a full time job, how he will not have much time for other stuff, how physically demanding it is, etc. I think from an intellectual standpoint, he had an idea what it would be like.

But I doubt very much he fully understood emotionally how tough it is. Honestly - the actual baseball part, competing, facing the pitching, the on field part - that is not even close to being the hardest part of the experience, at least for my kid.

You look at how good the college players are, and you have to be that good to hang with them. But there is so much more you have to be able to weather to be a college athlete.

For us, THAT was the surprise.

If you're not the best player on your HS team, what makes you think you're going to be on a college team?

Thousands of high school players on a hundred high school teams and only a few colleges in your state.

I'm with you, JMoff. I took infidel_son to ASU games when he was 5. But he preferred to be pitching to me in one of the areas near the 3B dugout. I remember watching with him long before gametime, the workouts at the various hitting stations, pitchers in the cages or working with bands and catchers fielding pop flies shot out of a Jugs pitching machine aimed straight up. Maybe all that made an impression.

He also loved going between the fences in the outfield and collecting a bunch of HR balls.

My best advice when going to watch a college game is to forget about the numbers. Don't focus on the pop times, the home-1st times, the velocities on the pitchers. Let the scouts worry about those things. As a player trying to get a better understanding of how he matches up to the collegiate competition, watch the mechanical aspect of the game. Watch how the players prepare themselves for the game. Watch the tendencies and movements of the player that is playing your position.

It drives me absolutely insane when I go back to a high school game and hear the conversation between pitchers. 99.9% of the time all they talk about is velocity...how hard they throw and how hard their opponent throws. I am currently a sophomore in college and can't remember the last time we even mentioned a velocity in the dugout during the game. Most of the time, players would say "he throws hard" or "his ball moves" or "his slider is sharp". Never was it "his fastball is probably 93".

A little story...last season my conference tournament ended a week before the ACC regular season competition ended. One of my best friends is a pitcher at Boston College, and they were scheduled to host a weekend series with UNC. I went to Boston to visit him for the weekend and watch the games. The Friday night game featured four future first-round picks in '09 (Sanchez and Belfiore on BC, White and Ackley on UNC). I planted myself right behind home plate, right next to Peter Gammons and the slew of scouts that were in attendance. I watched Alex White pitch into the 7th inning, and BC ended up winning the game 3-1.

After the game I was hanging out with several of the BC players at my friend's house and we were discussing the game. All they kept talking about was how well White repeated his delivery and how good his splitter was. I chimed in and said "you know he was sitting like 94 and got it up to 97 a few times." A few of them paused and looked at me and said "So?"

Velocity and speed are important, but there are many intangibles in the game of baseball that are overlooked by many. These intangibles are crucial to continue to succeed at the next level. I always use Derek Jeter as an example. Love him or hate him he is a winner and a Hall of Fame player. Does he throw the hardest? No. Run the fastest? No. Hit the farthest? No. But good luck finding a coach, general manager, owner or fellow player that wouldn't want him on their team.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
If you're not the best player on your HS team, what makes you think you're going to be on a college team?

Thousands of high school players on a hundred high school teams and only a few colleges in your state.

I call BS. If the best player was drafted, the second best might be a college player.

EDIT: It isn't unusual in many places for multiple teammates to be drafted, let alone play in college.

Sultan


Speaking from my experience I can tell you that you do not need to be the best player on your HS team to make a college team

We went to a ton of NAIA, WCC and MWC games. the boys goal was to play catch and chase down foul balls and exchange them at the concession. In 10 years he probably watched a total of 10 innings. It must have done something. Next year he'll be on the field

Sultan:

I understand the thought; and for the most part it is true.

quote:

If you're not the best player on your HS team, what makes you think you're going to be on a college team?

Statistically; here in California it is like one kid out of 5 HS that will go on to play at a four your college. However, it is not always true, you don't have to be the best during your HS years.

My guy was like the 5th or 6th best player on his HS team. All that meant was that he had yet to peak and that he had to work harder if he wanted to keep playing.

Four years into college he has done pretty well. HS is nothing more than one step on the journey. Learning from the experience and putting into the proper context will only help you grow.

It isn't unusual for kids in our league who weren't starters in HS to get drafted or play college ball.