what is with all the WE STUFF?
COACHES DO NOT RECRUIT WE--- they recruit the player
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LOL...thus far I've been very careful to avoid "We" when speaking about my son's recruitment. But...WE are paying the other portion of the bill so I guess I can understand why some say it.
Coches may recruit the player, but every questionaire he has filled out wants to know who the parents are, what they do for a living, if they are married, where they went to school, etc.... so there is a certain amount of "we".
that is not WE
TRhit...I have to agree with you. "We" is one of my pet peeves too.
thanx
Well, for all the daddy's out there that have coached junior from t-ball to showcase so he could play shortstop and bat lead-off, it is most certainly "WE".
I know 3 like this personally....
Really pitiful...
I know 3 like this personally....
Really pitiful...
Depends how it is used.
WE is nominative, and it can be perfectly ok to say WE are looking for an in-state school, or WE want a place junior can have a legitimate shot at starting or WE are concerned about a sore arm or WE anything else that reflects an opinion or perspective truly shared by player and parent.
It doesn't bother me as long as dads don't say WE threw a shutout or use WE to gloss over mistaken assumptions that player and parent agree on everything.
US is accusative, and certainly no coach recruits an US. But I don't think I've seen any or many parents say a coach is recruiting US.
Guess I missed it, TR. Maybe you could PM me and point out some examples you find offensive. (I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone by talking about specific posts in the open forum.)
But seriously, how big a deal is it if a parent gets excited and slips into first person plural instead of third person singular? Is that really so terrible that we can't cut some slack? Most of us here are not travel coaches who have gone through this a hundred times, so a little excitement is understandable.
WE is nominative, and it can be perfectly ok to say WE are looking for an in-state school, or WE want a place junior can have a legitimate shot at starting or WE are concerned about a sore arm or WE anything else that reflects an opinion or perspective truly shared by player and parent.
It doesn't bother me as long as dads don't say WE threw a shutout or use WE to gloss over mistaken assumptions that player and parent agree on everything.
US is accusative, and certainly no coach recruits an US. But I don't think I've seen any or many parents say a coach is recruiting US.
Guess I missed it, TR. Maybe you could PM me and point out some examples you find offensive. (I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone by talking about specific posts in the open forum.)
But seriously, how big a deal is it if a parent gets excited and slips into first person plural instead of third person singular? Is that really so terrible that we can't cut some slack? Most of us here are not travel coaches who have gone through this a hundred times, so a little excitement is understandable.
Swampboy, my thoughts exactly
Here here! We as a family have sacrificed much in the way of vacations, how discretionary finances are allocated etc. Each of his brothers and sisters have had their lives altered by baseball.
My son and I drove to many a lesson that we discussed, and his mentor and I have had many conversations that we have shared.
We bought in early on and supported our son. We are all proud of his accomplishments.
We have practiced long hours together through the years. Fielding, throwing, hitting, running...
Today He plays the game, we cheer him on!
My son and I drove to many a lesson that we discussed, and his mentor and I have had many conversations that we have shared.
We bought in early on and supported our son. We are all proud of his accomplishments.
We have practiced long hours together through the years. Fielding, throwing, hitting, running...
Today He plays the game, we cheer him on!
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
Depends how it is used.
WE is nominative, and it can be perfectly ok to say WE are looking for an in-state school, or WE want a place junior can have a legitimate shot at starting or WE are concerned about a sore arm or WE anything else that reflects an opinion or perspective truly shared by player and parent.
It doesn't bother me as long as dads don't say WE threw a shutout or use WE to gloss over mistaken assumptions that player and parent agree on everything.
I agree Swampboy. He plays ball, but "we" [his family] will be making the college baseball decision together as a family. "We" also have to balance numerous factors such as cost, since he has only has about $200 to his name. I, my wife, and other family members will all weigh in on decision, but he will have most important vote. Why is that problematic?
I agree with you TR. We as parents facilitate them playing, we have vested and emotional interest in them playing, but we don't play. We did not win the game, they, the team did.
quote:Swampboy said...It doesn't bother me as long as dads don't say WE threw a shutout or use WE to gloss over mistaken assumptions that player and parent agree on everything.
I'm right there with ya, Swampboy. Well said.
The game is about the kid. But the college decision is a "we" decision. It's not the kid who decides if the parents can afford to send him to his desired college.
We travelled to many games and events that he played in. We had a great time watching him play and travelling to new places and meeting many families and players and we all had a great time. We discussed programs and coaches, and we visited many schools to get an understanding on what a college campus looked like prior to him being of recruiting age. He went on the official visits, and sometimes we went. He talked to the coaches and players and stayed overnight and he had a great time. Sometimes we went and also had a great time talking to the players who gave us tours and if it was a serious offer, we usually met with the administration officer on all of the facets of the school that we were sending him to live for the next four years. We also usually sat down and met the head coach to help him with his decision. We discussed his options, costs, programs and what we thought was best for him. When it came down to the final decision, we sat around the table and discussed all of his options, the costs that we could afford, the distance from home, the school, the program and what we thought. When he made his decision it was a fully thought out from all angles because we had been part of the process.
I am not sure what part of we is a problem with his decision, but without a lot of we, it would not have been an informed one.
I am not sure what part of we is a problem with his decision, but without a lot of we, it would not have been an informed one.
I havnt coached my son since he was 11. I throw bp or catch bullpens constantly. I research colleges and provide him the data. I drive him everywhere. I dont wear any clothing with his teams name on it. While he is playing I dont say a word to him. Inever talk to his HS coqch but will meet with any potentiql college coach
I believe its mostly a "We" thing.
Let it go
I believe its mostly a "We" thing.
Let it go
I think both sides of the argument have merit. My sense is that TRhit is focusing on the parent that is living vacariously through their child, who is unable or unwilling to see that this is or should be the child's dream and success or failure. If I have mispoke in my interpretation TRhit, please forgive me. On the other side of the coin there is the perspective shared by Aleeba and others that has merit.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
what is with all the WE STUFF?
COACHES DO NOT RECRUIT WE--- they recruit the player
Why do they invite the parent to the visit?
To insist or even imply that there is no or should be no WE in the process or in baseball is just silly. Not every parent is a "daddy ball" parent. Those are easy to spot. Parents pay for baseball, discuss working through issues, help train the kids on being part of a team and playing for a coach, help with college selection, etc. Not every coach (YOU, THEY, THEM) have the best interest of the player in mind from t-ball to college. ANY kid is better off with the right kind of WE involved in their life and in baseball.
Coaches DO recruit parents! A parent who is too involved will hurt a kid at all levels, but especially at the college level. A parent who has raised a hard working player who shows respect and dedication can help a player a lot.
Coaches DO recruit parents! A parent who is too involved will hurt a kid at all levels, but especially at the college level. A parent who has raised a hard working player who shows respect and dedication can help a player a lot.
I could be wrong, but assume a college coach is choosing between two players - he invites both for visits on different weekends. In one weekend the "we" family has parents that have to be at everything, speak for the child, and want to be buddy, buddy with the coach and reminds him of all the great stats. The second weekend, the "we" family allows their child to speak with the coach without them around, but yet is around enough to speak with the coach and let him know they are part of the decision process.
If you're the coach of that team - which "we" family do you choose to make an offer to? Even if one player is superior on the field to the other? Which "we" family do you think you'll hear from freshman year if their child isn't starting over some senior?
So, I think TRhit that the coaches do recruit "we" sometimes - not always, but it does happen.
If you're the coach of that team - which "we" family do you choose to make an offer to? Even if one player is superior on the field to the other? Which "we" family do you think you'll hear from freshman year if their child isn't starting over some senior?
So, I think TRhit that the coaches do recruit "we" sometimes - not always, but it does happen.
I had the opportunity to sit within ear-shot of a couple college recruiters this weekend and heard them talking about some HS prospects on the field while reviewing rosters. Their conversation included the discussion of the family as well as the player. Certainly one is more important than the other but both relevant.
Just my opinion, but...
* To leave all of the work that goes into a college selection or a recruitment to just my kids? Nope. I also help with homework, talk with them about choices including friends, listen to their worries, give advice, with my wife we make and enforce rules, love them to no end, ...
* To let them make a college decision 100% on their own? Nope. Not when it so profoundly affects their future and they are not possibly mature enough to see the many facets of the decision, not when it affects our family's finances and thus their brothers and sisters, not when they have so much emotion wrapped up in the decision that they need some balance in the conversation.
* To make the decisions for them? Nope. They have to live with it for longer than I do. They are ultimately responsible for it. WE will make that decision together. If WE've done a good job, their decision will fall within our family's values, means and guidelines. If not, WE will guide them back to better territory.
To me, that all adds up to "WE." Oh, there's a balance...most definitely! And we can all cite cases where the "WE" went WAY to far.
But I'm not ashamed of the "WE" that WE exercised, not embarrassed about it. I believe I would be shirking my responsibilities as a parent if these processes didn't involve "WE."
* To leave all of the work that goes into a college selection or a recruitment to just my kids? Nope. I also help with homework, talk with them about choices including friends, listen to their worries, give advice, with my wife we make and enforce rules, love them to no end, ...
* To let them make a college decision 100% on their own? Nope. Not when it so profoundly affects their future and they are not possibly mature enough to see the many facets of the decision, not when it affects our family's finances and thus their brothers and sisters, not when they have so much emotion wrapped up in the decision that they need some balance in the conversation.
* To make the decisions for them? Nope. They have to live with it for longer than I do. They are ultimately responsible for it. WE will make that decision together. If WE've done a good job, their decision will fall within our family's values, means and guidelines. If not, WE will guide them back to better territory.
To me, that all adds up to "WE." Oh, there's a balance...most definitely! And we can all cite cases where the "WE" went WAY to far.
But I'm not ashamed of the "WE" that WE exercised, not embarrassed about it. I believe I would be shirking my responsibilities as a parent if these processes didn't involve "WE."
Excellent post from justbaseball.
I have no issue with WE, but when the parent uses I, bothers me a bit.
I have no issue with WE, but when the parent uses I, bothers me a bit.
Okay I might be guilty as well....
However I agree with Justbaseball that says Let them make the college decision 100% on their own - NO!
If that was the case he would have made a quick decision and not think about anything but baseball.
WE needed to put perspective into play. What happens AFTER college, what is the goal of baseball (to be drafted, to keep playing or fund college).
We have had lots of dicusions but not nearly enough for him to make a decision.
College recruited him first, parents next...We are in in together.
However I agree with Justbaseball that says Let them make the college decision 100% on their own - NO!
If that was the case he would have made a quick decision and not think about anything but baseball.
WE needed to put perspective into play. What happens AFTER college, what is the goal of baseball (to be drafted, to keep playing or fund college).
We have had lots of dicusions but not nearly enough for him to make a decision.
College recruited him first, parents next...We are in in together.
Sure, at the end of the day its the player who is playing, but for any family who consistently works together and supports each other, each person's accomplishment is a joy for every member of that family.
It's WE for sure!
.
It's WE for sure!
.
I do understand why posters use “we”, and it never bothers me to read it. However I don’t think I have ever said it. But at a certain point I think it’s important to let your son own it.... sooner rather than later. It has to be his thing not anyone else’s to own. To truly have success in the classroom and on the field he needs a sense that it is his to have success with or fail at.
I feel that as our boys grow older it's a transition from I to WE to HE and now that my son in a Jr. in college and 21 yrs. old, it's all HE now. Though HE now makes his own decisions and WE may only talk together about alternatives and present our opinions. HE's an adult now to make adult decisions and sometimes it's hard to think of him that way (at his age, I was fighting a war).
In the early years of LL and travel ball during his Jr. High years, it was "I" who made the decisions and there was no WE. As he entered High School, it did become WE as I and his mother helped him make decisions and helped him set and reach HIS goals. And though WE discussed and made some decisions together, it was HE who had to do the work and do what it takes to get him where HE wanted to go. If there were issues HE had with teachers, coaches or other schoolmates, WE talked about it and HE was responsible to taking appropriate actions. But WE were not so involved to take away the opportunity for him to grow and mature into a responsible man. . . though I kept a close eye on things. It was through this process of what WE were doing that I learned just what a good kid I had and what a good head he had on his shoulders.
Now, HE makes his own decisions, sometimes as expected not the one I would prefer, and WE have a good time together. . .whenever he's home and we're doing things together. And I don't think any father could be more proud of a son than I am of mine. WE have accomplished a lot, but HE has accomplished more that I could have imagined for him.
Situations and individuals are different and how much WE are involved must vary accordingly. But I feel the goal of the WE is to get our children to the point of being mature and able to make good decisions on their own. And I feel baseball is, as it has been for us, a GREAT avenue for this.
In the early years of LL and travel ball during his Jr. High years, it was "I" who made the decisions and there was no WE. As he entered High School, it did become WE as I and his mother helped him make decisions and helped him set and reach HIS goals. And though WE discussed and made some decisions together, it was HE who had to do the work and do what it takes to get him where HE wanted to go. If there were issues HE had with teachers, coaches or other schoolmates, WE talked about it and HE was responsible to taking appropriate actions. But WE were not so involved to take away the opportunity for him to grow and mature into a responsible man. . . though I kept a close eye on things. It was through this process of what WE were doing that I learned just what a good kid I had and what a good head he had on his shoulders.
Now, HE makes his own decisions, sometimes as expected not the one I would prefer, and WE have a good time together. . .whenever he's home and we're doing things together. And I don't think any father could be more proud of a son than I am of mine. WE have accomplished a lot, but HE has accomplished more that I could have imagined for him.
Situations and individuals are different and how much WE are involved must vary accordingly. But I feel the goal of the WE is to get our children to the point of being mature and able to make good decisions on their own. And I feel baseball is, as it has been for us, a GREAT avenue for this.
Man, I hope my dad says WE every chance he gets!
He introduced the game to me.
He kept the game fun.
He pushed me through the tough times.
He stressed academics and let it be known that there would be no baseball (or video games or bicycle or trips to the mall, etc) without top grades.
He hit me fungos and threw me bp until I surpassed his talent. Then he put me in front of people that could get me to the next level.
He paid for all of those trips!
Without him, "WE" would not exist!
So, I think I understand your pet peeve with the "We" thing, but my dad earned the right to use it. And I bet you a lot of other kids would agree with me.
Rich
PlayInSchool.com
He introduced the game to me.
He kept the game fun.
He pushed me through the tough times.
He stressed academics and let it be known that there would be no baseball (or video games or bicycle or trips to the mall, etc) without top grades.
He hit me fungos and threw me bp until I surpassed his talent. Then he put me in front of people that could get me to the next level.
He paid for all of those trips!
Without him, "WE" would not exist!
So, I think I understand your pet peeve with the "We" thing, but my dad earned the right to use it. And I bet you a lot of other kids would agree with me.
Rich
PlayInSchool.com
quote:Originally posted by PIS:
Man, I hope my dad says WE every chance he gets!
He introduced the game to me.
He kept the game fun.
He pushed me through the tough times.
He stressed academics and let it be known that there would be no baseball (or video games or bicycle or trips to the mall, etc) without top grades.
He hit me fungos and threw me bp until I surpassed his talent. Then he put me in front of people that could get me to the next level.
He paid for all of those trips!
Without him, "WE" would not exist!
So, I think I understand your pet peeve with the "We" thing, but my dad earned the right to use it. And I bet you a lot of other kids would agree with me.
Rich
PlayInSchool.com
Rich -
I hope your dad gets to read this post! It is chock full of amazing things that you may not even have meant to convey. He would be proud...of YOU!
quote:Originally posted by PIS:
Man, I hope my dad says WE every chance he gets!
He introduced the game to me.
He kept the game fun.
He pushed me through the tough times.
He stressed academics and let it be known that there would be no baseball (or video games or bicycle or trips to the mall, etc) without top grades.
He hit me fungos and threw me bp until I surpassed his talent. Then he put me in front of people that could get me to the next level.
He paid for all of those trips!
Without him, "WE" would not exist!
So, I think I understand your pet peeve with the "We" thing, but my dad earned the right to use it. And I bet you a lot of other kids would agree with me.
Rich
PlayInSchool.com
Your Dad is Blessed to have you for a son!
Until college I was along every step of the way other than on the field. This does not mean I'm responsible for the level of talent they achieved. But I helped get them there. One of the best things one of my kids said to me was after my daughter's first weekend of college softball ... "When I got on the bus I thought about all those weekends WE spent in the car together traveling to tournaments. It allowed us to be closer than most fathers and daughters."
mifdaddy -
I forwarded the link to this thread to my dad. Thanks for prompting me to do so.
Rich
PlayInSchool.com
I forwarded the link to this thread to my dad. Thanks for prompting me to do so.
Rich
PlayInSchool.com
when he pays then its him when i pay its we..I'm sending HIM to school for an education FIRST..thsts the we..when he hits the field its him..school over athletics = we over him.
great post mifdaddy
great post mifdaddy
Baseball is the ultimate WE sport for many of the reasons people have already discussed but also because at the most successful level, it involves a large team of interchangeable parts....you gotta be able to cooperate with others while not losing yourself in the group. Watching an almost man inter act with his parents can give you a lot of insight into who that kid is and how he may fit in your environment. You can certainly see if he has begun the process of taking ownership in his life!
For those who missed it, the SI article about Mike Trout (and family) a couple of months ago is a good read. Mom and Dad all the way through. I doubt they take credit, but "we" did a lot there. Jeff Trout was very involved through the draft process and I think he needed to be since Mike was in high school.
quote:Originally posted by PIS:
Man, I hope my dad says WE every chance he gets!
He introduced the game to me.
He kept the game fun.
He pushed me through the tough times.
He stressed academics and let it be known that there would be no baseball (or video games or bicycle or trips to the mall, etc) without top grades.
He hit me fungos and threw me bp until I surpassed his talent. Then he put me in front of people that could get me to the next level.
He paid for all of those trips!
Without him, "WE" would not exist!
So, I think I understand your pet peeve with the "We" thing, but my dad earned the right to use it. And I bet you a lot of other kids would agree with me.
Rich
PlayInSchool.com
PIS just made me tear up. I could only hope my son gains your maturity and understanding. PIS seems like he has moved to the "He" catagiory described above.
quote:PIS just made me tear up. I could only hope my son gains your maturity and understanding. PIS seems like he has moved to the "He" category described above.
Yes indeed.
quote:Originally posted by mcmmccm:
I had the opportunity to sit within ear-shot of a couple college recruiters this weekend and heard them talking about some HS prospects on the field while reviewing rosters. Their conversation included the discussion of the family as well as the player. Certainly one is more important than the other but both relevant.
wow, thats strange..never heard of that in college,,maybe in travel ball you want parents that everyone can somewhat get along,but in college? I took my boy to one showcase and he had almost 10 people recruiting him..he went on several college visits..So If I didnt show up for the visit as a DAD they wouldnt want him unless I impressed them as well?
Wog ... Some parents acquire the reputation as the parent from hell. If a parent is tough on a high school and travel coach why would he stop at the collegiate level? College coaches don't want to, and won't deal with it for the most part.
I cannot speak for others but in OUR case it is WE.
Obviously, the players ability is paramount but in our family their is no I in team.Parents just have to be cool and inject themselves in the process only when necessary.Keep a low profile but be vigelent as well.
Obviously, the players ability is paramount but in our family their is no I in team.Parents just have to be cool and inject themselves in the process only when necessary.Keep a low profile but be vigelent as well.