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19 replies

Weight lifting too early

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
This post is only based upon some research and discussions with trainers. It also was a big discussion while up at the HS watching a tournie last weekend, the size of the players compared to when son was their age.

First thanks to all who sent pm and honest in their assesment that their players (or players they know) began weightlifting before 15. I can only draw conclusions that arm/shoulder injuries in baseball may be a direct result of overuse. Lots of back and knee problems. Though 61% said their player began weightlifting before 15, only 7% said they beleived an injury sustained was NOT from too early from weightlifting. How does one know that? How does one know if an injury was or was not sustained because they took to the gym too early? Is that just an assumption?

JT mentioned that a beginning a weight program can be safe if supervised and done right. I still am not sure what a safe weightlifting program is for those well below 14-15.

There have been different theories regarding proper age 9for any sport) to begin and if you do a search you can find lots of information. One thing that jumped out, stay away from machines.

There is a big difference between strength training vs actual weight training. I am not really understanding the need for younger athletes (before 15) to begin training with weights when conditioning can be achieved through resistance, pylometrics, core excercises, long and short distance running, sprints etc. to develop the muscles, tendons, bones, etc needed to remain healthy and sustain injury while still growing. Pitchers can strengthen arms through year round toss programs and very light free weights.

My son was a tall skinny lanky one. At 11 he was 96 pounds, 5'2" 6 years later he was 6'3" and 195. 100 pounds just from growth. He did not begin any weight training until he was 16, began strength training around 14-15 with no wieghts) and only then began on a slow pitchers program. Not until he entered college did he actually begin a more serious program, has no arm, back, knee,hip issues that plague him like many of his friends have, pitchers and position players. Can I attribute the lack of any sore back, knee, shoulder to NOT beginning any serious program until he was much older?
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P 80PATRIOT100+ posts
Our city has an Olympic style weight lifting instructional program. They allow kids to start at 12 y.o. My 17 y.o., a football player, wanted to start when he was 12. I didn't know anything about weight training, or any other sport for that matter, so I went to watch and talk to the instructors. Everything they did was with light weight and mostly concentrated on technique. There was also a big emphasis on safety and discipline. I paid the $40.00 for the 8 week course and let him go at it. Last week they had an inter squad meet and he is one of the better kids in the 219 lb. class. The only injury he has had in his sports career which includes 2 years of baseball, 7 years of football and 3 years of weightlifting is a back injury from playing football. Oh, and many broken fingers.

My 14 y.o. has never lifted weights besides the heavy ball conditioning he has done with his baseball teams. The last three years have included speed training and core workouts. He is a very strong kid at 5' 11" and 195 pounds. In the last two years of baseball he has injured both knees, pulled a rib head, a slight shoulder injury (scary), and a few upper and lower back troubles. He will start lifting weights toward the end of this season to prepare for freshman football.

I think the strength training and weight lifting have benefited my older boy and I wish my baseball player had started earlier. I have a ten y.o. and he will start earlier.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Kind of sums up my way fo thinking on teh subject.

The trainer I spoke to last week, told me injuries she's seen in players begin to show up as they are into their HS or later years, 18,19,20,21. These include back fractures,wrist and knee not necessarily happening in game play. The first question she asks is, when did you begin weight training. This is for all athletes, not just bb, not just pitchers. She is a very busy lady working PT with young athletes still in HS.
Last edited by TPM
C cbg500+ posts
The debate as to when athletes should start training with weights has been around for a long time. One of the first people in the United States to study this topic was Dr. E.J. Kries (strength coach at UCLA) back in the early 1980's. Dr. Kries went to Bulgaria and other former soviet bloc countries and studied their physical education programs and how they train their young elite athletes. His findings were that it is great to train with weights as young as 8 or 9 years of age but it must be done by professionals that know what they are doing. The problem in the United States is that we have very few people that know what they are doing when it comes to training young athletes and they often have different opinions as to how the athletes should be trained.

IMO, one of the reasons that professional athletes are using steroids & HGH is because they began to train with weights later in life and they are playing "catchup" with the athletes that started at a younger age and built a strong base/foundation.
Last edited by cbg
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
I am not debating weight/strength training at an early age. But the ages of the injuries seem to coincide with the advent of travel teams and playing a really full schedule of games, specializing in one sport, and playing that sport all year.

In our discussion with the doctor immediately post-op from one son's labrum surgery, the doctor explained that with kids playing year-round, their muscles don't have the opportunity to rest. By playing only one sport, the same muscles get worked...without an opportunity to rest. And by playing a full schedule of games ( 80 - 100), the muscles don't get the opportunity to rest. This doctor also told us that he sees many injuries in young kids from swimming and volleyball---both sports which have been "club" sports for much longer than baseball, at least in my area.

So add the weight lifting too early, and it sounds like a recipe for problems.

It's almost like the group of athletes 18-21 are kind-of like guinea pigs, an experiment to see if it worked. It didn't, due to the number of injuries that these young adults are experiencing now.

The solution for my family of softball-playing daughters is now to play other sports and "take it easy" during the "off-season", such as it is.
Last edited by play baseball
B 3boysmom10+ posts
My son started lifting weights in junior high school. They had a unit at school which he participated in. I wouldn't say that he did it until about age 13. I will say that he is also one who matured physically very early. He was already 6 foot tall and had gone through puberty at that age. I don't really think that his weight training has had anything to do with his current injury situation which is really about the only problem he has had. I do wonder though if the fact that he throws so hard has placed extra stress on his shoulder.
B bb1100+ posts
We could probably find both pros and cons to this issue. I don't think anybody really knows. My son did have a growth plate injury at 13 but as I look back on it, he went from competitive (Feb to August), then to fall ball, then to lessons and back again to competitive there was no real rest (my fault). Everything I read now is that there should be no throwing for 3 months at this age. So I think it's an over use injury do to no rest not weights but no one knows for sure.
BumBum1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
There is a big difference between strength training vs actual weight training. I am not really understanding the need for younger athletes (before 15) to begin training with weights when conditioning can be achieved through resistance, pylometrics, core excercises, long and short distance running, sprints etc. to develop the muscles, tendons, bones, etc needed to remain healthy and sustain injury while still growing. Pitchers can strengthen arms through year round toss programs and very light free weights.


That was a post that should be read by the parents of every young ballplayer. Right on, TPM!
Last edited by Bum
BumBum1,000+ posts
Play baseball, I guess Bum, Jr. is one of those guinnea pigs because he has specialized in one sport, trains in that sport year-round, and plays about 90-100 games a year. But he also has had (what I think is) a well-rounded offseason conditioning program with strategic rest periods.. but never from long-tossing as he does that year-round.
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
Bum, certainly not EVERY athlete is going to have injuries or "issues" which require surgeries. I was retelling what an orthopedic doctor told me. There IS a high incidence of college and high school kids, heck, even younger, who have needed arm and shoulder surgeries. The papers and magazines report on them relatively often. It's a real concern.

Kudos to you for helping your son to have a well-rounded off-season conditioning program. Can you share? Or is it a secret? Wink
Last edited by play baseball
BumBum1,000+ posts
PlayBB,

*Long-tossing year-round, even during season
*Pro-style warmups before starts
*Light weights in-season
*Lots of running in-season
*Band work
*Ice after start, alernating ice/heat 2 days before
a start (15-20 min. ice, 15-20 min heat, etc. for 3 cycles) to lengthen and relax the arm muscles and shoulder area
*Offseason w/cardio, plyometrics, core, band, medium weight-lifting (no lat pull downs, no bench pressing)
*Strategic "breaks" in offseason (maybe 1 week light periods every 6-8 weeks) training to regain energy (still throw/band but lighter version of cardio/core/plyometrics)
*Mechanical instruction-light pens w/pitching coach in Fall and Spring) "tune-ups". I'm a big believer in proper arm action!
*Creatine and Whey Protein in last 1/2 of offseason (December-February)
*No pop allowed! Gatorade before start, a little Gatorade during a start but mostly water

P.S... was clocked at 89 yesterday at least 5-6 times during bullpen. Oh so close!
Last edited by Bum
BumBum1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by smalltown:
The only rule I gave him in weightlifting was the Bruce Lee method, go as fast as you can with very light weights until exhaustion, no heavy weights.


I can see that training for power, and I like the concept. However, be careful going "as fast as you can" while maintaining proper form. And Good God man, you let your kid throw 200 innings/year??? Roll Eyes
Last edited by Bum
S smalltown10+ posts
Bum Probably for a different thread but we're talking 60 innings in High School (jamboree, regular season, one guaranteed playin game, some scrimmage innings, 100 or so summer ball, 30 or so fall ball, Winter pitching camp and one college camp in August with some games each of the last 3 years. I of course keep a book for his games. He has thrown at least one 10 inning game 2 of the last 3 and several 8's, up to 119 pitches max. He is a low pitch count pitcher, averages 1 walk per game. There are two schools of thought, one keep the innings down, a person only has so many. Another is throw as often and as much as you can to get as strong as your body will let you, school 2 has worked for us, never had an injury of any sort. He throws anything he can, javelin, rocks, football, weighted balls, etc. I watch him for tiredness and he is well schooled to know when he is done and does not hesitate to take himself out, although that only happened twice in three years. Now that he is finally done growing it may be time to start limiting it more, I notice college pitchers throw a lot fewer innings. Probably another thread.
Bruce Lee never played but man, what a physical specimen.

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