We're not hitting with men in scoring position

Hard to get kids to be aggressive sometimes. In our Pony tournaments my son had a bad game where he just wouldn't take the bat off his shoulder with less than two strikes. He walked twice and struck out twice. We had a talk about it and he started swinging at the first fastball he got in the strike zone. He went 2 for 3 in his next game, then went 1 for 3 with a fly out and line out and 1 for 4 with two line outs and a fly out with the hits all being line drives having big impacts in each of the games.

Problem solved right? No. He started the next game by taking two strikes on the outer half of the plate, taking a ball then taking a curve down the middle. Next at bat he took a couple balls then took an indecisive swing hitting a soft liner over third right after they replaced a short third baseman with a tall third baseman who was able to go back and backhand it.

Hopefully this will lead to a more aggressive approach in the future but with kids you never know.

Sounds like they are not swinging at strikes until they have two on them.

Here's a little batting practice game we used to play with our little leaguers:

With coaches throwing BP, the batter could stay at bat as long he only swung at strikes. If he swung at a strike, even if he missed, he got another pitch. If he let a strike go without swinging - he was out.

If he swung at a ball, even if he hit it, he was out. If he let a ball go, he got another pitch.

The boys loved it - they all tried to break the team record for how many pitches they could last.

It really trained them to think about what pitches they were swinging at (and what pitches they took.)

Working the drill all season in BP, we had a lot fewer guys chasing bad pitches and letting meat fastballs go by.

I think players begin to sit on FB middle in. They adopt a straight up posture that allows them to still hit that pitch. When the FB a little away comes they watch it and report to the coach " that pitch was outside". In reality it was simply a good pitch on the outside 1/3. If they get their butt out and chest out and belly up to the plate and look for that pitch they can hit it and hit middle in too.

Do not accept that hitting style mentally and physically.....your not doing them a favor. My son got into the same habit and I wished the coach would have taken some at bats away until his ears opened up.
If kids won't get the proper spine angle and belly up driving that away pitch then let someone else have their last at bat. Playing time is golden and they will listen when they get two bats and pinch hit for at their last at bat. DO NOT REWARD THAT BEHAVIOR AND DON"T HAVE TOO MUCH SYMPATHY FOR IT.

An easy simple drill that we sometimes do to get back into being aggressive and still know the zone is to take a couple rounds of BP with a 3-2 count. The kids know that if it is in the zone they had better hit it and if it is off the plate to let it go (but they had better be sure). If they take a called strike they owe me a lap around the field. Then we take a round with no count. Our goal is...if the pitcher throws a first pitch strike that catches too much of the plate, then we hammer it. If it is off-speed we let it go. After the first two rounds the kids seem to get their aggressiveness while still being aware of the zone, then we hareness that aggressiveness into early count pitch recognition. It worked very well for us midway through our season when we put this into action.

swingbuster,
Agreed. When I pressed my son on the two pitches he took for strikes to start his first at bat in the last game he admitted that they were both strikes. In the previous two games he'd lined out three times on that type of pitch. Instead of realizing that was a good result and continuing to hit that pitch hard he lost his aggressiveness and struck out.

hsballcoach,
Sounds like good drills. I'll have to try it when I have a field to practice on this weekend.

In practice start them off with a count of 0-1. Tell them for the sake of the drill, they have taken a borderline strike and now must move or advance the runner. Use situations such as runner on 2nd 1 out or no outs etc. Have a coach work from say 35 feet throwing the BP where they can locate pitches in the strike zone effectivly and then reward for good at bats with another situation. If they don't get the job done, chose what ever you want as a negative. We have our guys spring to the foul pole and back. If they aren't back before their next turn, they lose their turn.

REALLY, PRACTICING SITUATIONAL HITTING IS A LOST ART. MOST DON'T DO IT AND IF IT IS DONE, THE COACHING ASPECT IS LOST. WE TRY TO PUT A COACH BEHIND OUR PORTABLE BACKSTOP TO COACH THE SITUATION AFTER EACH "AT BAT."

I have found that most young hitters don't go up to the plate with a plan. I told my son at an early age that if he didn't have a plan then he had very little chance of having success. Then I gave him his plan, it is as follows.

There is a grown man in the dugout calling pitches to get you out, you can't compete with his knowledge and experience, so we don't try and guess what the pitcher is going to throw. We are looking for a fastball (only) when you get the fastball you can't miss it. If you get two strikes then all bets are off!

This has paid off really well and has had much success with this approach.

I like the idea of a drill starting with no count. A ground ball or fly ball off a fastball counts as a strike and the batter continues his at bat. A fastball taken down the middle is two strikes. A line drive is a hit and the count starts over. A gound ball or fly ball off a curve with no strikes is an out. Next batter.

TXDAD,

truer words have never been spoken.

good advice - thanks!

we're a 14U team playing in a very competitive summer league in northern nj. I feel like when we play our best, we're just as good as all these other "elite" teams, but we've been playing below our best this summer, mostly in the hitting dept.

Their marching orders are to swing at the first good fastball. Its not that they don't take the bat off their shoulders until 2 strikes, they are just fouling off or missing alot of pitches.

thanks!!

Tried the drill last night. Amazing how many kids still couldn't lay off the curve. One kid swung at a first pitch curve 8 or 9 times in a row and hit a grounder each time only getting one pitch.

The best part of it was that my better hitters picked up what I wanted them to do and not only started laying off the curves but started hitting a higher percentage of line drives and hit the ball harder as well.

"we seem to get into 2-strike counts alot and then we're sunk."

This is what telling kids to wait for fastballs will do for you.......

BlueDog is right. Fastballs are not the only good pitches to hit, especially in youth and high school baseball. The best hitters will take advantage of any mistake the pitcher makes, such as bad breaking balls and changeups.

Since you are all training those kids, train them to recognize a hanging breaking ball and hit it in the gap, or perhaps even better than that.

grateful,
I agree with you that there are lots of pitches that can be hit in baseball!!!!!!!!!! BUT how do you teach a hitter what a HANGING breaking ball looks like? Can you throw one 100 times in a batting practice (a nice mistake hanger) NOPE there is only one person that can (CHAN HO)

Whatever! Just tellin what worked for my son.

"BUT how do you teach a hitter what a HANGING breaking ball looks like?"

You don't....Teach them how to use their vision properly and the brain will say hit it......Location and speed is what it's about.....Not, fastball, breaking ball......

most of the curveballs we see are in the dirt. not too many hittable ones..

I agree they need to be able to recognize pitches better.

Generally speaking the hanging curve is up. Very few people can start the curve going up a lot and still get a sharp break.

A curve that starts level or nearly level will generally break down to the knees or lower and will end up breaking much more sharply.

exactly. we've seen very few curves that are in the strike zone. they're either high or low. that's part of the reason I want them looking fastball..

If the player goes up to the plate with a plan, (looking for fastball) if he gets it then great hit it, if he doesn't then he can adjust to the curve. If they go up to the plate looking for an offspead pitch then they can't hit the fastball. Always look fastball

Don't look for any certain pitch.........Recognize the location and speed of the pitch and if it's hittable, then hit it........That is the plan, plain and simple....No more no less.......

Great hitters make adjustments.....Others don't.....

Bluedog

I understand that you have very strong beliefs on hitting, I also understand that you have totally closed off your thinking to any other beliefs, I don't say this to be mean but you are the only person that believes as you do on the subject.

If you are trying to teach recognize pitch and hit the pitch then you are correct but all recognizition starts off the fastball period! Tell me how a batter can hit a 97 mph fastball if he is not geared up to hit it? If he is not looking for the fastball there is NO way in the world he can react fast enough to hit it. If he strides to hit the fastball and it is thrown then he can hit it, if he is fooled and it is a curveball or something offspeed he has to stride as if it was the fastball, keep his hands back and adjust. THAT'S IT PERIOD!

That being said, when the player goes to the next level there are advanced scouts that watch all pitchers and report back to the teams on the tendancies of pitchers that they are soon to face, they know what the pitcher likes to throw on what count and so on, this is relayed to the hitters and since they are more advanced they can sit on a particular pitch. But for younger players every at bat has to be fastball first or they are sunk.

I have listened to your advice, and have really thought about it, I have talked to 3 college coaches about it, and 1 current minor league player, and I have concluded that if you continue to teach your approach to hitting then you are doing a disservice to those you are teaching.

Just go and ask someone that is currently involved in teaching baseball and you (if you keep an open mind) will see the error in your ways.

quote:

and I have concluded that if you continue to teach your approach to hitting then you are doing a disservice to those you are teaching.

Txdad, just what area in particular of my approach do you and your Coach friends deem to be so damaging?.......Tell me and I will continue the discussion.....

My guess is you are painting a picture that I didn't paint....We'll see, though.....

Bluedog

I believe I said that I talked to 3 college coaches never mentioned that these were "coach friends" in fact they were not friends at all. I printed your posts and had 3 different college coaches read your hitting comments ( they also coach in the TCL) which is a wooden bat league for college players during the summer here in Tx. They all said this is not what is taught to their players and as far as they were concerned it was "garbage"

Unlike you (Bluedog) I didn't totally discredit you hitting knowledge, like I said I thought about it and it didn't make sense to me, so I asked people who were in the know. You should also seek more knowledgeable baseball people and see if you should take a step back from this kind of teaching, if you go into it with an open mind (as I did) then you and those you teach could benefit from this. However; if you think your way is the only way, then best of luck to you and I hope it works out for the best. You can continue with this thread if you wish but your method is not one in which I would employ so I have nothing more to add.

Txdad, if you wish to produce mediocre to poor hitters, then, by all means, listen to these Coaches and follow their advice......Keep in mind that Coaches like these are the reason why so few College players ever get to play MLB baseball......They're taught to wait for a mistake pitch down the middle, preferably a fastball, and let the pitcher dominate them with his other pitches.......

Now, Txdad, if you don't feel confident enough to answer my previous question and continue this hitting discussion, fine........But, I must tell you that your previous post was a weak attempt at attacking me instead of discrediting what I teach......You have alot to learn about hitting......A whole lot.....

Bluedog

I never attacked you! I did discredit your advice, not by myself, I went to experts which you are not. I agree that I have alot to learn about hitting (I am learning more and more everyday) I am glad that you have closed your mind and have stopped learning (since you know it all) As for the mediocre to poor hitters that I produce, well let's just say that is something that has to be determined by college and pro scouts which so far isn't a problem.

I will continue to do my research, and teach my players what they need to be successful at the next level (whatever that may be)

It has been a great pleasure reading your posts, I have concluded since I am new to this site that others have you pegged perfectly.


" Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

Don't remember which member has this on his posts, but it is appropriate.

quote:

Originally posted by txdad06:

It has been a great pleasure reading your posts, I have concluded since I am new to this site that others have you pegged perfectly.

txdad,

After years (literally) of reading his nonsense we would all be either blind or dumb (or both) not to have him "pegged".

Back to question at hand--"we are not hitting with men in scoring position"

A possible shake up in the lineup might be in order


Another thing I have found---at the HS level you look fastball all the time because very few HS pitchers have a good curve-- this I know as fact because my son who is a hitter told me why--"Dad they cant even get the curve over the plate"

He always sat "dead red"

TRhit according to Bluedog your son is doing it all wrong and will be a mediocre hitter at best with that approach. He couldn't possibly have success at the next level.

txdad

He averaged nearly .360 in four years playing major D-1 Ball

In HS he hit .370, .480 and .568 for his three years of varsity

I rest my case !!!!

By the way BD has no references to his "success" as an instructor so we really dont know what he knows, if anything

TR,
Obviously you're just seeing what you want to see. Your son couldn't possibly have done that according to the Blue Dog hitting manual.

BTW, shaking up the lineup can do a lot of good. One of the things I did with our tournament team over the last few tournaments was move a few kids down in the order who were struggling at #2 and at #3 and went ahead and put some less consistent hitters in those spots. Our production stayed about the same in the #2 and #3 spots but jumped way up at #5 thru #7 as a result. By moving the kids down I took some pressure off them and got them looking for first pitch fastballs to jump on.

cadad

Perhaps if my son used the Blue Dog method he would have hit better--you think???

LOL

tr

if your kid had of used bluedogs method he never would have played D1

well, we made the playoffs as the #6 seed, facing a team we lost 5-3 against last week. we had lots of opportunities to score more runs, but didn't get key hits when needed.

if we lose tonight, we're done for the summer. not sure if shaking up the lineup at this point is a good idea.

they will be told to go to the plate looking dead red, and give it everything they got...

TR,
I believe using the Blue Dog method no player can hit less than .700. It isn't too late for your sons to give up their careers and go to Blue Dog for instruction. Guaranteed HOF.

BTW, it is getting interesting again on the cup of coffee - Yanks vs. Sox.

There was just something about this post and it finally hit me.

Not hitting with men in scoring position is better than not hitting with women in scoring position.

how right you are!

As many of you know, Blue Dog and I have had several disagreements. SEVERAL! Some have bordered on very nasty. However, what I respect about Blue Dog is that he is the same now, in the past and tomorrow. If you looked at or remembered some of his past post, he is consistent and so, I can only derive that he really believes what he says and obviously teaches. I do wish I could see him in action. I would drive a couple of hundred miles to watch him give a lesson or two to see the differences in what he believe in vs what I teach and believe in.

BACK TO THE TOPIC. I had a very interesting discussion last night on this very thing. One of our feeder teams did very well and made it to their national tournament where they just placed 7th. Not bad coming from such a small community. WE ARE VERY PROUD OF THEM. The topic then was how they did so well until that last few games when they just didn't get the key hit. IN MY OPINION, THE MENTAL SIDE OF HITTING UNDER PRESSURE IS UNDER TAUGHT. It isn't as simple as drilling. It also has to include the mental aspect where the game/situation is taught and where the player knows what is expected of each and everyone of them. Example - my girl hits #4 in her lineup. She has been told that she will never bunt. She never approaches any game situation thinking bunt. She does approach knowing that with one out and a runner at 3rd, she is going to find an outfielder or at least avoid hitting the ball to third. Well, to make a long story short (sorry almost impossible for me) this is because we discuss the game all the time. Well, I just wanted to add this to the discussion.