What is the range for LH pitchers, that have good control and throw strikes. lets say 85mph+
Jaime Moyer type pitchers also, he may hit 82-84 FB, great location type pitcher. 20 game winner at 40 years old.
Quite:
I was a good pitcher, I didn't become a great pitcher till I learned how to let the other team hit the ball. Sandy Koufax
I've heard several scouts say that what they look for is often somewhat simpler than many people realize. They look for:
Guys who can hit fastballs
Guys who can throw fastballs
That might sound like a gross over-simplification, but think about this.....When was the last time you heard of a guy getting drafted because he could really crush a curveball? Or the last time you heard of a guy getting drafted because he had a nasty changeup? Many things are evaluated, but sometimes choices are made based on some fairly simple and fundamental abilities that can't always be taught.
Guys who can hit fastballs
Guys who can throw fastballs
That might sound like a gross over-simplification, but think about this.....When was the last time you heard of a guy getting drafted because he could really crush a curveball? Or the last time you heard of a guy getting drafted because he had a nasty changeup? Many things are evaluated, but sometimes choices are made based on some fairly simple and fundamental abilities that can't always be taught.
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
What is the range for LH pitchers, that have good control and throw strikes. lets say 85mph+
Jaime Moyer type pitchers also, he may hit 82-84 FB, great location type pitcher. 20 game winner at 40 years old.
The only problem with Jamie Moyer type pitchers is there is only 1 Jamie Moyer
I have been told high 80s for a LHP. 87+. The point is that velocity will come with maturity and hard work. Some guys can hit 90 at 16. The guy who used to pitch for Detroit had a team 16U called the detroit Cobras. He had one 16yo who was hitting 92 and another (his son) 90. I don't know what happened to them but they threw hard and with control. One of my son's 17U teammates threw 89 off flat ground. Unfortunatly his arm was messed for a couple years because he had terrible mechanics. He is healthy now and is going to a JUCO. He is a great kid and am looking forward to seeing how he does. Hopfully he will be taught good mechanics. He is a very strong kid with thick body and huge muscular hands.
True and its a shame, hitters can time a fastball.
Give me a real pitcher that can keep a batter off balance everytime. able to pitch inside and shows no emotion one way are another, thats who I would wan't.
Its like the hitting game, Homeruns are great, but there just mistakes by the pitcher.
The game is much more exciteing to me with base hits and a double are two.
Give me a real pitcher that can keep a batter off balance everytime. able to pitch inside and shows no emotion one way are another, thats who I would wan't.
Its like the hitting game, Homeruns are great, but there just mistakes by the pitcher.
The game is much more exciteing to me with base hits and a double are two.
I know that Players are Throwing 90+ at early ages 15-16. but I bet if you keep a study there arms are wasted by 18, are having surgery by 20. some make it and I guess thats all the scouts/recruitors could hope for.
But for longeavity wouldn't it be better to work your way up to that speed, so as to let your arm grow naturally?
But for longeavity wouldn't it be better to work your way up to that speed, so as to let your arm grow naturally?
I believe I read a post somewhere on this site that Jamie Moyer was actually a low 90's guy that somewhere along the line got hurt and had to use his brain to compensate. By the way, I'm a big Mariners fan and I can tell you Jamie Moyer is a first-class guy who has done a LOT for the Seattle community. My son's a lefty and Jamie is a whale of a role model. I hope he pitches to 50.
If they've had a long hot day I would say they would like a pitcher that is tall, has a good head, and robust flavor.
Fungo
Fungo
I am not a scout so ultimately I don't know what to look for, it's just a whole bunch of things they take into consideration and I probably never understand it.
I was listening tonight to an interview with sons college coach. He said something that made sense. Not to go into it, but he said that sometimes an untrained eye can't see what the trained eye can. So one can't make statements about why one is drafted higher or lower than the other, unless you are the trained and seasoned scout.
Bobblehead,
I feel badly that you needed to bring in something negative about a player. It really doesn't add to the purpose of the topic.
I was listening tonight to an interview with sons college coach. He said something that made sense. Not to go into it, but he said that sometimes an untrained eye can't see what the trained eye can. So one can't make statements about why one is drafted higher or lower than the other, unless you are the trained and seasoned scout.
Bobblehead,
I feel badly that you needed to bring in something negative about a player. It really doesn't add to the purpose of the topic.
Fungo, who needs a long, hot day? I'm there no matter what the weather is doing 
.
.
06catcherdad,
I've also heard scouts say they keep it simple when scouting pitchers. The best answer I ever got from a scout that has always intriged me is:
"I look for a kid that can miss the bat... but, when he does hit it, he does'nt hit it very well".
Although there are alot of things that go into being a complete pitcher.. I think that statement sums it up pretty well.
I've also heard scouts say they keep it simple when scouting pitchers. The best answer I ever got from a scout that has always intriged me is:
"I look for a kid that can miss the bat... but, when he does hit it, he does'nt hit it very well".
Although there are alot of things that go into being a complete pitcher.. I think that statement sums it up pretty well.
My experiences have been that you must have velocity to be consdered a Prospect or MLB projectable. By why do we always point to that? There are quite a few big league middle relievers who throw 85-89, not many below. There are as many below 85 guys as there are 98-100 guys, very few. If a guy is a late pick in the draft and toiles in the minors for a few years and gets people out, the big club will give him a chance. The key up top is can the guy get 'em out. If he's an 87 guy or a 94 guy and he consistently gets the hitters out, he'll get a chance. He may not be on the scouts radar and hot lists while in school, but he may get drafted late or sign as a free agent after some independent ball. Opportunities exist for those who never give up.
Very good post coachric!
Only exception IMO there are more 98-100 fastballs in the big leagues than those below 85. In fact, we could start a little contest here. Name the pitchers who do not throw 85 or better and those that have thrown 98-100 or better. This will be a very one sided list IMO.
Only exception IMO there are more 98-100 fastballs in the big leagues than those below 85. In fact, we could start a little contest here. Name the pitchers who do not throw 85 or better and those that have thrown 98-100 or better. This will be a very one sided list IMO.
Got me there PG. I can recall a few 98 and higher's, but only guy I can think of below 85 is moyer, and maybe Kim as he go's up and down like a yoyo.
Jenkins, Wagner, Colon(occassionally) Who Else?
I Dunno.
Jenkins, Wagner, Colon(occassionally) Who Else?
I Dunno.
This came up on the thread that TPM started a month or two ago about what "stats" a scout looks for in a college pitcher. Naturally, some posters
wanted to minimize velocity by saying the important thing was "to get batters
out" and of course ultimately that IS true. One poster brought up Stu Miller from the 60's and I believe another mentioned Moyer, but the question is "Name a ML pitcher that does not have a fastball velocity over 85 mph."
Even Wakefield can put a little heat on it when he wants to. I would like to know of any young pitcher drafted recently with less than 85 velocity. I could
be wrong.
wanted to minimize velocity by saying the important thing was "to get batters
out" and of course ultimately that IS true. One poster brought up Stu Miller from the 60's
and I believe another mentioned Moyer, but the question is "Name a ML pitcher that does not have a fastball velocity over 85 mph."Even Wakefield can put a little heat on it when he wants to. I would like to know of any young pitcher drafted recently with less than 85 velocity. I could
be wrong.
Greg Maddux, in his sub-par season last year with the Cubbies cruised at 84-85...It wasn't pretty.
Hey Fungo I get it, I like it with two raw sugars to.
And 85 to 89 with good control and at least a 10 to 12 mph slower change-up, will get more batters out than a 94-96 mph fastball only.
Hitters will time the fastball.
And 85 to 89 with good control and at least a 10 to 12 mph slower change-up, will get more batters out than a 94-96 mph fastball only.
Hitters will time the fastball.
Moc,
I agree with the 85 or better but.. if two kids are throwing 85 and one has a .150 BA against and the other has a .250 against I think the 1st kid is getting the nod. So velocity comes into play of course but the smarter pitcher will usally win out.
I agree with the 85 or better but.. if two kids are throwing 85 and one has a .150 BA against and the other has a .250 against I think the 1st kid is getting the nod. So velocity comes into play of course but the smarter pitcher will usally win out.
MOUNDMASTER-I would tend to agree with you as far as the two pitchers are concerned-both at 85-the .150 pitcher probably has better overall stuff BUT.......He's not necessarily smarter, could have a smart catcher.
Coachric,
Here is a list (copied from Baseball almanac) of guys who have touched 100 or more. The number that would be 98 mph or above would form a very large list. If we are talking about peak velocity, I have seen Moyer throw many pitches over 85 mph. I can’t really think of a single pitcher (presently in MLB) who can not throw above 85 mph, but there might be one. Some might say, this list only shows the pitchers top velocity rather than what they usually throw. That is true, but if we are talking about ability to throw hard, here is a list. Notice the large number that are still active.
"100 MPH Club"
In Order by Fastest Observed Speed
(Listing Has Only The Fastest Known Speed by the Pitcher )
Pitcher - Radar Speed
Mark Wohlers - 103.0 mph
Armando Benitez - 102.0 mph
Bobby Jenks - 102.0 mph
Randy Johnson - 102.0 mph
Robb Nen - 102.0 mph
A.J. Burnett - 101.0 mph
Rob Dibble - 101.0 mph
Kyle Farnsworth - 101.0 mph
Eric Gagne - 101.0 mph
Jose Mesa - 101.0 mph
Guillermo Mota - 101.0 mph
Billy Wagner - 101.0 mph
Nolan Ryan - 100.9 mph
Josh Beckett - 100.0 mph
Daniel Cabrera - 100.0 mph
Roger Clemens - 100.0 mph
Bartolo Colon - 100.0 mph
Francisco Cordero - 100.0 mph
Rich Harden - 100.0 mph
Jorge Julio - 100.0 mph
J.R. Richard - 100.0 mph
C.C. Sabathia - 100.0 mph
Ben Sheets - 100.0 mph
Derrick Turnbow - 100.0 mph
Kerry Wood - 100.0 mph
Note from Baseball Almanac - The list above IS NOT a comprehensive breakdown of every pitcher to ever surpass the 100 mph barrier, but rather a list of pitchers we have seen on ESPN Game of the Week, SportsCenter, or in person eclipsing the century mark. If you want to share an another or provide an accurate game date for those we have in the chart please send us an email.
Here is a list (copied from Baseball almanac) of guys who have touched 100 or more. The number that would be 98 mph or above would form a very large list. If we are talking about peak velocity, I have seen Moyer throw many pitches over 85 mph. I can’t really think of a single pitcher (presently in MLB) who can not throw above 85 mph, but there might be one. Some might say, this list only shows the pitchers top velocity rather than what they usually throw. That is true, but if we are talking about ability to throw hard, here is a list. Notice the large number that are still active.
"100 MPH Club"
In Order by Fastest Observed Speed
(Listing Has Only The Fastest Known Speed by the Pitcher )
Pitcher - Radar Speed
Mark Wohlers - 103.0 mph
Armando Benitez - 102.0 mph
Bobby Jenks - 102.0 mph
Randy Johnson - 102.0 mph
Robb Nen - 102.0 mph
A.J. Burnett - 101.0 mph
Rob Dibble - 101.0 mph
Kyle Farnsworth - 101.0 mph
Eric Gagne - 101.0 mph
Jose Mesa - 101.0 mph
Guillermo Mota - 101.0 mph
Billy Wagner - 101.0 mph
Nolan Ryan - 100.9 mph
Josh Beckett - 100.0 mph
Daniel Cabrera - 100.0 mph
Roger Clemens - 100.0 mph
Bartolo Colon - 100.0 mph
Francisco Cordero - 100.0 mph
Rich Harden - 100.0 mph
Jorge Julio - 100.0 mph
J.R. Richard - 100.0 mph
C.C. Sabathia - 100.0 mph
Ben Sheets - 100.0 mph
Derrick Turnbow - 100.0 mph
Kerry Wood - 100.0 mph
Note from Baseball Almanac - The list above IS NOT a comprehensive breakdown of every pitcher to ever surpass the 100 mph barrier, but rather a list of pitchers we have seen on ESPN Game of the Week, SportsCenter, or in person eclipsing the century mark. If you want to share an another or provide an accurate game date for those we have in the chart please send us an email.