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What Do You Think?

P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Some thoughts, not to be taken “too” seriously

We all understand that the “steroid” problem is big news right now. It’s in the newspapers, magazines, on television, radio, message boards and pretty much every other place you can think of. You would have to be in a coma to not know about Canseco’s book, Balco, Giambi, etc. and steroids.

It (the steroid issue) is getting as much coverage as the war in Iraq for christ’s sake. I would think our government would have much more important issues, but this is a hot topic, so politicians are front and center.

Being perhaps a bit more familiar than most regarding what takes place in club houses around baseball, I can say “steroids” is just one of the problems. The amount of pain killers and other (legal for now) drugs being used would surprise most people. But it’s not just baseball, it pretty much involves all athletics. As long as there is competition and the need to win, there will be people trying to gain an edge.

I think these are very serious issues, but I’m with ClevelandDad (previous post) and the 54% on this. Everyone in baseball knew about this problem for a long time. So I would think someone in the government knew about it long before now. Didn’t our president once own a MLB club? In other words they (the government) also swept it under the rug until it became a good… what’s the word?.... Promotional item? Media blitz? Hot topic?

Anyway, I for one am getting sick of all the attention this subject is getting. We have first rounders who have had serious problems with cocaine. First rounders who have been addicted to Heroin, and things like that don’t get the same attention.

I’m tired of reading and hearing all the stuff. It’s a problem… everyone knows it…

MLB needs to find a solution. I think they know that. The thing that bothers me is this issue has become almost bigger than the game itself. Of course it’s come front and center all because of the home run. While they’re at it maybe the government can increase the strike zone, build the parks bigger and deaden the baseball. Or how about banning alcohol consumption at the games. After all, alcohol has proven to be very dangerous at times in and around baseball parks.

Not making light of the seriousness of the issue, but IMO there are much more important issues that require our governments full attention. Are there any known terrorists playing in the Big Leagues? Do Big League stars have to worry about Social Security or Medicare? Are any Big Leaguers homeless or starving? The economy, energy, ecology, gambling, education, etc.

I enjoy recreational gambling once in awhile. Anyone else pissed off about what the latest and most popular thing the media is promoting these days.

The most popular game these days… Is it Baseball, football, basketball or Texas Hold em? Does ESPN and the others really think that showing people who just started playing poker can win $5 million is good for the youth of America.

Celebrity Poker, A new World Championship for millions each week, poker CDs are hot sellers, high school kids are playing on the bus, a television series, poker websites to gamble on line, etc. What kind of signal are we sending?

Hope I’m wrong, but I see this problem reaching epidemic levels. Don’t get me wrong, I love playing cards and poker. I just wonder how many young kids are now wanting to become professional gamblers when they grow up. Is this healthy or should something be done about it before it becomes a major problem.

Must admit I enjoy watching it myself. Just wondering when will the government get involved in this potentially serious problem. Will it be before or after someone writes a book about it?

Maybe others don't see this as a problem!
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ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
Pg,

In case you can't tell, I have got nothing better to do than interact on the HSBBWEB. You are singing to the choir (of two, TR and me). Very well thought out and written. There are arguments to be made on the other side as well, but I would like to see those who argue for this type interaction back it up with showing how this has worked in the past. I agree with you, lets go after terrorists instead.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
PG

I agree with you totally

Not to say something is going on in baseball but I think they,the public and the government are not looking at the total picture--- Canseco has always known what button to push to get himself in the limelight --his entire career was like that

I spent a lot of years in the entertainment ( record )industry---talk about drugs and booze--I am not too proud to say if I didnt get out when I did I might be dead now !!!! And that was some 30 years ago !!!! Boy could I tell you stories--at least what I can remember from back them

Drugs are in every section of our society not just baseball-- people have huge carpets that they sweep things under.

PG you and I are in a different society than we grew up in
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
Tr and PG,

Society is obviously different today. However, I am more optimistic than ever because of this very technology that we are using right now. The whole nation has become a town hall. Everyone has a right to their opinions and can express them to thousands if not millions of people. If your arguments are not sound, they will be rejected by the community. Dan Rather thought he could pull something (old way of thinking) and you saw what happened (because of the new way - his ideas were exposed by some very smart pajama-wearing people out there). To get back on topic, the community has spoken with respect to steroids - we reject them - who wants to be Jason Giambi right now? Who wants to run a business (MLB) that the public disapproves of?
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
POKER on TV ???

What about gambling on the internet-- families bank accounts get wiped out in a flash--all that is needed is a credit card or a debit card

How about buying steroids(Ilegal and legal) on the internet ?
Why doesnt the goverment get concerned about that?
A HS kid with a parents credit card number can buy whatever he wants.

Gambling is a problem , one of many in our society, but as harmful as any other you can name
B BeenthereILHSBBWeb Old Timer
Poker, like everything else, if done in moderation, can be a lot of fun.

My wife and I go "gambling" once a year. Nice dinner and then we spend about $200.00 bucks a piece. I was up $700.00 a couple of years ago playing blackjack when my wife convinced me I should try the slots....the most boring thing that a person can do in their lifetimes! I promptly proceeded to lose all my money. Mindless pulling of the arm or pressing a button.

I knew when to quit and kept the plastic in my pocket.

---

McGwire will be exposed with his buddy Canseco. I remember going up to Milwaukee to see Scott Spiezio's first year when he was with Oakland and commenting to his dad, Ed, that the players had the "biggest" arms that I had ever seen! Should have seen the batting practice show they, Canseco and McGwire, put on...with several of the balls clearing the light tower in left center...unimaginable power. I still don't believe that taking steroids help your eye-hand coordination. Would like to see a PhD candidate do a scientific study on the subject.

In my opinion, nothing much will get done by MLB (more than the "window dressing" that they've done to-date) because they are afraid of the players union.

Congress is doing their thing for "show". Ah, yes, politicians.
itsrosyitsrosy1,000+ posts
Been, Nothing will be done by MLB because of the spineless leadership by Bud Light. An arguably devastating story with regards to the steroid controvery and if, or how, it may play out in history. As far as being afraid of the union and their piece of **** leader, Mr. Fehr, only the democratic congressmen will care about the union. The leadership from the "red states" will be polite, but really couldn't care less about the union. That makes 2 of us. Have a nice week.
Florida Baseball GuyFlorida Baseball Guy500+ posts
PG,

It seems that kids from all teams go on trips and play Texas Hold'em all night. If they lose their money they go ask their parents for more and then buy more chips. What kind of a message is the Poker sending?

Like you I occasionally have gotten into card games. I enjoy them most at someones house with friends for low stakes. To me it is a fun recreational activity. But do the player know when to stop? I just don't think so, especially since money does grow on trees (or at least out of parents wallets).

Another issue:

Is all this steroid talk helping or hurting awareness. This year more players were kicked out of NCAA schools due to testing positive to steroids. Could it be that they were hoping to put up the big numbers and then get drafted?

I know of a high school player that failed the steroid test at a school his freshman fall and is now for a junior college his freshman spring. Did he think that steroids would make him stronger? It certainly made him bigger.

But the question then becomes should the government become involved in this mess. I believe that to protect our youth the government needs to take some preventive action along the lines of information for kids - not public hearings. We need public hearings to discuss why our school systems are in disaray, why social security is bancrupt, why the environment is not protected enough, why have we not caught Bin Laden...for that we need hearings. For steriods the Congress is looking for publicity, but not the kind that will warn kids. The kind that will get them re-elected. Plus since GW owned the Rangers it is a free attack on him.

The only reason the government has any grounds to stand on is because of baseball's anti-trust exemption. Thye are using that for free publicity.

How about telling kids about former Oakland Raiders star Lyle Alzado who died because he took steroids. Or maybe Ken Caminetti who was a drug abuser and steroid abuser. Let's not glamorize this stuff.

The Marlins announced that former first round pick Jeff Allison, who was adicted to Oxycotton, will not be joining the team this spring. I know PG knows this young man well from their events. Isn't it time that the Marlins and MLB did something to help this young man instead of pushing him off to the side.

I guess they figure out of sight out of mind. After all we wouldn't want to have another drug scandal in MLB.

Thanks for your indulgence.
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
I agree with most of what has been said here. Certainly steroids are not one of the most important issues facing our country or our government. It IS likely a bit of grandstanding, looking for some easy PR by members of the Congress. But I have to admit as the parent of 4 sons (3 in HS and above) who are constantly faced with decisions about substance abuse (alchohol, pot, drugs and performance-enhancing drugs) that I am not too disappointed that it comes up at this time in my family's life. I think its kind of good that my kids hear so much negativity on TV about its use...too often substance abuse is glorified in music, movies and TV shows. And I admit I'm being a bit selfish here given where my sons are in their maturity. ?Maybe? all the PR will carry a bigger message about substance abuse than would have ever been conveyed otherwise. But I'm probably too optimisitic.

On the gambling issue, I too enjoy playing cards, gambling in Reno/Vegas once every 4 or 5 years. I also enjoyed the WSoP series on ESPN the past two summers. But you are absolutely right, everywhere I go young kids are playing Texas Hold-em...my own kids know the rules better than I do and I had some of the same thoughts as PG several months ago...that it too was being glorified on TV and acceptable for young kids to be gambling-savvy. I seriously dislike the ESPN drama series on it (does ESPN ever produce a "family" series on any sport?).

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Thanks for bringing it up.
Last edited by justbaseball
S SBK500+ posts
I agree that baseball has had plenty of time to clean up their mess. The problem is that they had their chance and whiffed.

When would have been the right time for government to step in and do something about it?

If done a few years back, many of the same people who now suggest they waited too long would have been suggesting that they give baseball a chance.

It appears that baseball has finally started to act. Is it just a coincidence that it was shortly after some in congress brought this issue up?

I ask baseball people where you they stand. Do you want truth and accountability and let the chips fall like they may, or do you prefer this dirty little problem to be swept under the rug?

As far as the government being too busy with other more important matters, some of us might suggest that it might actually divert their attention away from getting into our pocketbook. And that’s not a bad thing!
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
SBK,

Perhaps the government can get involved in the Poker (Texas Hold em) promotion (gambling) that is sweeping the nation.

I read where the largest viewership comes from teen age boys and young adults. It's the newest craze. Television networks have made it very popular. And you know people are very interested or it wouldn't be aired around the clock.

Not to put it in the same class as taking drugs, but is this healthy? Something about people who play Poker for a living being role models for our youth that upsets me. The tobacco industry would be major sponsors (if allowed by the government). Guess the Poker sponsors will have to come from the alcohol and *** related industries. That way the children can learn how to gamble and during the commercials they can watch good looking people having a blast drinking alcohol. Then there's the drug commercial (if an erection lasts for more than 4 hours seek medical attention right away). Is 3 hours and 45 minutes perfectly healthy? Real entertaining stuff for teen agers!

I guess it's good for business for the people who work for 1-800-BETSOFF.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
PG,
Poker is not considered gambling because anyone can win, wheras in black jack, you are betting against the house. Roll Eyes Nothing we can do about it.
But I did enjoy your posts on the subject!

As far as steroid issue, I feel the only one who should be questioned at the hearings is he commisioner himself! Come on Bud, get a grip on it!
Florida Baseball GuyFlorida Baseball Guy500+ posts
I happen to agree with PG that Poker is a growing problem. But to say that Poker is not gambling is ridiculous. If you are playing poker you are gambling money to try and get more - just like the stockmarket is a gamble too. It doesn't matter whether you loser your money to another person, the house or the market - you still lost you money.

Here is the Dictionary.com definition:

gam·ble
v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles
v. intr.

To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.
To play a game of chance for stakes.
To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.
To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.

v. tr.
To put up as a stake in gambling; wager.
To expose to hazard; risk: gambled their lives in a dangerous rescue mission.

n.
A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.
bkekcsbkekcs500+ posts
I can't understand how poker on TV has even got a following but that's just me. I sure wish ESPN and FOX would devote as much time to college baseball as they do to the card games. Then maybe I would know something about the college players and could converse with the rest of you guys more intelligently about it.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Bob,
If you want to be specific,in legal terms Texas Hold Em, Bridge, Mah Jong, Bingo is not considered illegal gambling. Neither is the stock market. You know what I meant.
Therefore, ESPN, Bravo and everyone else (including our FL tribes), can get away with it.
Back to subject, using steroids without an Rx is illegal in the eyes of Uncle Sam.
Last edited by TPM
B baseballguy100+ posts
Must be showing my age.....but it does seem like the stuff our kids see on tv these days is pretty trashy....as a parent, you try to give your kids the best set of values and decision-making skills you can - only to have your efforts continually un-done by what they see on tv....and yes, those "4 hour erection" ads are part of a general degradation that seems constant wherever our kids turn...
....back to the original topic.....oh, what WAS the original topic??? See, told you I was showing my age.....
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
I think we as adults/parents look at our society and all the problems that it generates and quickly jump on our soapbox voicing our outrage at these problems. Maybe we need to focus our attention, not so much at the source, but rather to those that can fall victim...our children.
Cheaters, gamblers, drugs, and alcohol (plus a lot of other “bad stuff”) have been a part of our society as long as I can remember. There have always been those that oppose them and those that promote them. While I applaud those that fight for a better society, it’s unrealistic to think government “control” or even an eradication program will protect our children. Our primary responsibility has to be some pretty basic parenting that educates our children to these problems and the consequences associated with them.
Fungo
LadyNmomLadyNmom1,000+ posts
I think that a drug testing program, designed for our national pasttime..... that says you have to test positive 4 times before you are suspended....and then only for one year....deserves to have Congress come knocking at their door....(not to be detracted by poker.....or the seriousness of gambling)....the union/owners have had a lot of time to clean up their act....and they have failed.....miserably....I find their propsed remedies insulting....think there is a coverup going on....and....I hope it does get more and more political attention....then....maybe....it will get better....and the player's stats more believable....and the game back to basics.....

Washington is not going to leave this alone.....bet on it.

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