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My son's 18U team was playing in a tourney yesterday.  Had to win to have a chance to advance.  Up 5-2 in the 4th....give up a few runs and head to extras tied at 5.  Nothing for either team in the 8th....so we head to the 9th. We're visitors.  Bunt single....botched defensive play on a sac bunt...then a walk.  Based loaded, no outs....with our #3 guy (best contact hitter on the team) up to bat.  Coaches give him the suicide sign.  He screwed up and pulled back, after our runner was half way home.  Kid is out...so 2nd and 3rd 1 out.  To make it worse, he strikes out.  Next kid flies out.  We hold the other team scoreless to end in a tie.

 

Have you or would you ever consider a suicide squeeze in that situation?  

 

Don't get me wrong, it's not a huge deal, as it turns out even with the win, we wouldn't have made it to today due to runs allowed....but it had to be the stranged thing I've seen in a long, long time. 

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I don't mind the play and I bunted as much or more than anyone when I was coaching....but with bases loaded and no outs and the 3-4-5 guys up needing one run it just seemed a little strange to me.  Yes, the kid (D1 commit) should have got the bunt down, or maybe he didn't get it was a suicide, I don't know....but I'd have much rather seen us take 2 or 3 shots at putting a ball in play to get a run.

Seems like a safety squeeze would have been the better call if the guy on 3rd was a decent runner at all.  Or just swing away.  But coaches make odd calls all the time. When they don't work out they don't look good. We were also in an elimination game yesterday. Half the roster was in Hawaii or Mexico, and we had literally no real pitchers available on the bench, so it seemed odd when coach pulled his reliever, who had been cruising, for a pinch hitter in the 7th. The PH did work out a walk, but the poor kid who got put on the bump made that irrelevant real quick. 

I don't mind it, I do agree with JCG in terms of more of a safety squeeze.  

The ironic thing is the coach was probably playing the odds and trying to avoid a double play that would end up with 2 out and no run in.  

A fly ball would accomplish the same thing....probably felt the kid had a better chance of getting the bunt down.  

I think it is odd, but I am not a coach.  I'd never do it with 3,4,5 coming up.  I also wonder what type of tournament it was.  If there were scouts there, even more reason to not bunt (I know, I know...the kid still should have executed it...), because most scouts like to see kids swinging away.

 

The OPs question did remind me of what I thought was the oddest of this type of situation I've ever seen.  I saw it once and only once.  Anyone else?  Here it is:

 

14U High end travel ball.  First game of season a several years ago. Son's team is very solid but not great.  Team we are playing is loaded/one of the more talented teams in the state...Sons team is away..looking to make a statement, get on top early..

- squeeze play called on 2nd batter of the game...yup, leadoff triple, then a squeeze play. (it did not work.  kid popped it up, doubled the guy off 3b and son's team went on to get smoked).

- I couldn't believe my eyes!

 

I found out later that the coach had been coaching women's softball for a few years prior and that had something to do with the call.

I'm not against trying a suicide with bases loaded, but not in this situation for a couple of reasons.  I'm having to make assumptions, some may be wrong, but here goes.

 

I assume the defense had the corners playing in to the grass to make a play at the plate, lowering odds for success..

There was also a force at home, so odds stacked further against success.

Assume your three hole guy (and probably 4 & 5) are rarely called on to bunt, so likely not your best bunter.

On that same line of thought (and likely why he pulled back the bunt), he's not used to seeing or getting the bunt, especially the suicide, so missing the sign or getting it wrong (which he did) stacks the odds further against.

 

Hopefully there was some sign back from the hitter that he knew he wasn't swinging away.

 

I get the element of surprise by doing the insane when the insane is least expected, but with the assumptions, this one just has the odds stacked too high against success for me to like it.

 

If you're in the 7-8-9 hole, maybe makes more sense, based on where the corners are playing.

Last edited by Nuke83
Originally Posted by RJM:

Based loaded, no outs, infield in, middle of the order coming up. No brainier. Hit away. Get two runs and put the game away.

I was assuming the infield was not playing in as it didn't say so in the OP.  If they are in, then yeah, swing away....if they are playing back I get trying to bunt to either side to get a cheap run.  

Assuming the infield, or at least the corners are in, this is a high risk call, I think.

The odds could shift for the better if this is a play which was practiced extensively, so that practice execution by this hitter and runner was flawless.

In my view, I could see this call by UCI, UT, Fullerton or UofO, as illustrations,  because they practice and execute so well.  Properly done, the runner will beat the throw even if defensed well. (I am assuming a good runner at 3b).

However, in a Summer travel team, I would doubt there has been that level of practice execution, especially with the #3 hitter (whether he is D1 or not.)

Of course it looks worse since the hitter appears to have blown the call by pulling the bat back and then the K.

Last edited by infielddad

IF was in....and no, I'm assuming it hadn't been done in practice.  Again, not a big deal....almost all the kids are 2015's who are leaving for school in a couple weeks so winning a game/tourney isn't a big deal....but winnings games is still every kid's goal (at least I hope so...lol).   I'm assuming that the batter saw bunt...and didn't know it was a suicide.  Who knows....again, I don't really care either way...and we weren't advancing anyway so....

 

Knowing the entire situation would be helpful as to whether this was a good percentage play.  Left or Right hand Pitcher, winding up or stretch?  what was the count? Taking it for granted the coach knew his players well.  The only time I would squeeze is if the hitter had a 3-1 count and I knew he would get a strike down and take an obvious pitch out of the strike zone.

 

As far as missing the sign or not executing the play, that means either a dumb player or a dumb coach or both.  You have to make sure all your players understand what their job is and these plays require some practice.  Also, squeeze plays require clear, even obvious signs from the coach and confirmation sign from the hitter that he knows what is happening.

 

I like the play with one out better than no outs.  Hitter with 3-1 count.  Runner takes off as soon as possible, sooner than normal.  Hitter squares early, earlier than usual.  3B is yelling there he goes.  Pitcher has to throw a strike or walk in a run.  Hitter will always get a decent pitch to bunt or he takes ball 4.

 

We once, on this exact play, had a pitcher pitch out (ball 4) once he knew the squeeze was on.  

 

There is a certain amount of instinct or gut feeling by the coach, but over all it is a high percentage play, even higher with LHP. Especially when one of your weaker, yet disciplined, hitters is at the plate. The hitter does need to expand the strike zone some so he doesn't get rung up on a bad call.  But unlike other squeeze plays he doesn't have to make contact on an obvious ball 4.

 

Very good play if your the home team and the one run ends the game. Then again very ugly if for any reason it doesn't work.

 

 

Last edited by PGStaff

I'm assuming that the batter saw bunt...and didn't know it was a suicide.

Confusing...because...

Also, squeeze plays require clear, even obvious signs from the coach and confirmation sign from the hitter that he knows what is happening.

This!!

 

Never ran a squeeze play in my entire coaching career without confirmation (sign) from the hitter that he got it and it was ON!!

 

Maybe the runner on 3rd messed up?

Last edited by justbaseball

I saw this develop into more of a disaster in a travel ball game my son was in when he was 16. Bottom of the ninth, no one out and we are at bat, down by two runs. Our coach calls the suicide squeeze and the runner bunts a line drive to the charging third baseman who bounces up after the catch, throws to the shortstop covering third, who then throws to second to get the third out. The guy bunted into a game ending triple play. Ouch!!!

Great comments about acknowledgement from hitter.  Every time I've run one, my runner on third had to see the acknowledgement from the hitter. 

 

I've often told the story but ... We were playing a top team out of Chicago in a big tournament in the central part of the state.  As always I headed over to that team's dugout to talk to their coach who was/is a coaching legend.  He told me he was going to throw his #1 to teach this young man a lesson.  I laughed.  They were giants and my little guys came up to their belly buttons.  He called the #1 over and introduced him while at the same time saying that my team was going to teach him a lesson.  He didn't like it much.  So, game is going on and we get a base hit.  This kid pitching was a stud about 6'5" and just blowing gas.  However, that was all that he had.  So, I put on the sac bunt.  They didn't field it.  I put on the sac again.  They didn't field it.  Now, bases are loaded and #4 is up.  I give him the squeeze.  He starts laughing.  We squeeze and they didn't stop it.  So, we did it again.  They didn't field it and so, we did it again.  Now the pitcher starts yelling at us to hit the d^%$ ball.  This legendary coach strolls out and takes the ball.  Then, he says something to the fact that he was getting beaten by a real baseball team and that he might want to learn how to pitch instead of throw.  Then, he made the pitcher apologize.  After that, he basically told me to go ahead and short game them because his team needed to learn a lesson.  We did.  The bunt is not a sideshow tactic.  It is a real weapon and the suicide squeeze can demoralize a defensive team if they don't know how to defend it. 

Not saying it was a good play or a bad play because so many factors to consider

 

1.  How good was the pitcher - fresh or tired / has he walked a lot or struggled to throw strikes

2.  Does he throw more fastballs or good mixture of breaking stuff thrown in

3.  Was this first pitch or was it after the first pitch of the at bat

4.  How much have we worked on the bunt

5.  Is our philosophy to lay bunts down or swing away

6.  Was the pitcher wind up or stretch

Many other things fall into this to consider

 

First with bases loaded it can't be a safety squeeze since the runner has to go on anything down.  There's no advantage to seeing the ball down and where it's at.

 

Myself personally (depending on me knowing my personnel) I would probably give him one strike then call the squeeze.  I want that run and we work on getting bunts down.  Doesn't mean we will but it's something we prepare for 1 - 9.  I don't like to bunt but our philosophy is if we need a run we will get a run by bunting.  Outside of that we want to mash.  This helps the kids buy into putting team first.  They get to mash - which is what they want - but if they get the call to bunt it's because it's an important situation.  

 

After the we get the lead then 4 and 5 can swing away to help pad the lead because you're probably looking at 2nd and 3rd with IF probably in or at least halfway.  Possibly intentionally walk 4 hitter to set up the force but I still got faith in my 5 and 6 hitter.

Bases loaded no outs - there is a reason this guy is my 3 hole hitter. If he is my 3 hole hitter he is the best hitter on my team. I change nothing. I take my chances with my best hitter and no outs and the bases loaded. I am not going to coach myself out of the inning. All the pressure is on the pitcher and defense. When you put a squeeze on the pressure equally shifts. You now HAVE to get it down or make contact.

 

With one out where the DBL play is in play I can see it. With one out and down in your order or at the very top 1-2 - I can see the squeeze depending on the pitcher. Is he consistently around the plate? Is he effectively wild? What's my gut feeling? Many times teams get out of these situations because someone decides to over coach the situation. Just my opinion everyone has a different style.

Lets look at this. You are visitors so the other team still has an at bat in extra innings Number 3 hitter up with bases loaded and nobody out again I will say it number 3 hitter up up with bases loaded and no outs. You said he was best contact hitter. why take the bat out of his hand.  too much analyzing going on here. You always go with your strengths. Was it your strength to have him suicide squeeze? 

 

Too many people try to reinvent the game these days.  Of course if it worked it was a great play  

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