What does it take….

RHP - D2 - movement on pitches, mound presence, throwing strikes.

quote:

Originally posted by 2013leftydad:
Trying to assess what it’s taking today….

Good grades and test scores.

Velocity, talent, exposure and tenacity.

And yes, a ton of strikeouts.

2013leftydad - I think you're asking a question that popped into a lot of our heads when we thought our sons were 'getting close.'

Truth is, there is no one answer...no magic numbers so to speak. If you watched the CWS you saw D1 pitchers at the very highest level throwing anywhere from mid-80s to mid-90s, both RHPs and LHPs. There were 6 ft. 8 in. pitchers and one who was listed at 5 ft. 8 in. but mighta been shorter than that? Some had sliders, some overhand curveballs...some changeups...and a few other pitches too.

College coaches need to see your son pitch. Everyone of those guys caught at least one coach's eye when they pitched in front of them. Coaches will make some type of assessment from seeing your son and if interested, they may ask their peers what they think...or your son's coaches...or area scouts...or other coaches who have faced him.

Bottom line, control what you can control...and for the most part that is getting him seen. Camps, showcases, good tournaments...and in some cases HS ball too. And then let the chips fall where they may.

And as TPM says, good grades and test scores. Those might be two of the most important numbers.

As posted by others, there is no forumla. It just depends on the player, school's needs position, etc.

If the school needs a LHP and you're a LHP the difference between 85 and 91 might not matter that much especially if you can locate the breaking ball.

If you're a lights out SS hitting .450 in HS with power and the college doesn't need a SS o 2B, you might get a cold shoulder.

To answer your specific question:
D1 team that excelled at CWS
LHP: 92 FB and two decent secondary pitches
~ 1.5 K's per inning in HS as senior
4.33 GPA
ERA that started with a 0.XX

If you want your kid to get drafted under the new MLB CBA, don't tell pro teams your kid has a scholarship and a 4.XX. If you want your kid to go to college, you've alread figured out how to answer the pro question.

Attend college games of various levels. Compare how your son's potential fits in. The college game looks far more challenging up close than it does on tv.

IMHO...justbaseball hit the nail on the head. These coaches are looking for all different types of pitchers from both sides, arm angles, tall, short with all different kinds of pitches. They will recruit who they need to fill a pitching role on a team or teach them how to be successful in their system.

What did it take then.....

D1 RHP - FB high 80s-low 90s, change up, curve. I think my son was given the opportunity due to (in order); SAT & grades, velocity, movement, command, pitch variety, and temperment. College coaches never (ever) requested high school or travel ball stats. They used a radar gun, their eyeballs, and talked to his travel coach.

What does it take now.....

It takes discipline, confidence in your stuff and confidence in your team defense. It takes a coachable, intelligent kid to understand that the old high school game plan of blowng it by kids isn't going to work in college. The quicker a freshmen college pitcher realize that the better off he will be. Deception, movement and control become much more important. Starting pitchers must have at least 3 pitches that they can reliably command a strike in a specific location for any count. Relief pitchers and closers should be able to command at least two pitches for strikes in a specific location for any count, and get ground balls when needed.

In addition, it is a far different thing to (1) make the college team, (2) make the college travel team, and then (3) actually see some college playing time on the mound. Half a college team is pitchers. Lets say 18 pitchers are on a D1 roster. 3 or 4 starters per weekend depending on the conference, 2-3 middle relievers. 1-2 setup guys and 1 closer. So, half the pitchers will see game action in a particluar weekend. The pitching staff is competing every week for more playing time. You have to earn your spot or role every week.

So, it takes a lot of hard work to get to the school and even more hard work to see the mound and stay on it.

Have often wondered how accurate this is - pertains to all positions, not only pitchers.

http://www.ncsasports.org/recr...ecruiting-guidelines

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
What does it take now.....

It takes discipline, confidence in your stuff and confidence in your team defense. It takes a coachable, intelligent kid to understand that the old high school game plan of blowng it by kids isn't going to work in college. The quicker a freshmen college pitcher realize that the better off he will be. Deception, movement and control become much more important. Starting pitchers must have at least 3 pitches that they can reliably command a strike in a specific location for any count. Relief pitchers and closers should be able to command at least two pitches for strikes in a specific location for any count, and get ground balls when needed.

In addition, it is a far different thing to (1) make the team, (2) make the travel team, and then (3) actually see some playing time on the mound. Half a college team is pitchers. Lets say 18 pitchers are on a D1 roster. 3 or 4 starters per weekend depending on the conference, 2-3 middle relievers. 1-2 setup guys and 1 closer. So, half the pitchers will see game action in a particluar weekend. The pitching staff is competing every week for more playing time. You have to earn your spot or role every week.

So, it takes a lot of hard work to get to the school and even more hard work to see the mound and stay on it.

There's a lot of terrific advice and insight on this thread. I've chosen to highlight fenwaysouth's last several paragraphs because they touch on several of the attributes that come to my mind most frequently on this topic.

Common denominators among successful college pitchers:

(1)They throw at least two, ideally three, pitches for strikes very consistently. Justbaseball is absolutely correct about the diversity of pitching types on a college roster. However, the ones who see the mound regularly all throw strikes; and they do it routinely in tough situations.

Pitchers who routinely pound the zone get innings. Regardless of velocity, ones who don't, sit.

(2)Tenacity. Successful college pitchers are an exceptionally tenacious bunch. They're tenacious in their work habits, consistently striving to improve; and they're tenacious competitors on the mound.

(3)Resilience. College pitching is not a step above the best high school-level competition. It's a huge leap; and every college pitcher, regardless of their ability, can count on experiencing failure more than they ever did before they arrived.

As fenwaysouth suggests, these challenging times will occur not only when pitching against opponents; but, they'll also be faced when competing against their own teammates in scrimmages and practices.

If you can't put the last failure behind you quickly, you'll have a tough time succeeding as a college pitcher.

(4)They want the ball. College pitchers have to have sufficient courage and confidence in their ability to want the ball in any situation. College pitching is not the place for insecurity.


My son has an expression that I've heard him use from time to time about college pitchers. He says, "You have to make the coaches give you the ball."

If a college pitcher can step up to the various attributes discussed in this thread, it'll go pretty far in making his coaches give him the ball.

Some great advice in this thread!

Thanks for all those who responded....

We are still trying to feel our way around on what its going to take for Junior....

Was looking for more along the lines of velocity and what level its going to to get on the radar of different levels.

Thanks

Our experience was that on July 1, the pitchers with 93+ arms got the calls first. Pure physical skill was evaluated first. Then upper 80s to low 90s guys started getting calls and requests for pitching schedules. The skilled and crafty low to mid 80s guys were last. These type of guys don't showcase well because their value is not measured in mph but in mental focus under pressure, and te ability to perform under pressure for every pitch. The sub 90 guys have to throw the right pitch to the right spot at the right time for every pitch. Unless the kid projects to have a lot of upside on velocity, it will take a scout a lot more looks and time to evaluate the kid. It takes a heated game with something personally on the line to really see what they can do. Summer showcase tournaments are OK but there is still not enough mental pressure on a pitcher to really see what they can do.

quote:

Originally posted by 2013leftydad:
Thanks for all those who responded....

We are still trying to feel our way around on what its going to take for Junior....

Was looking for more along the lines of velocity and what level its going to to get on the radar of different levels.

Thanks

2013leftydad:

I doubt that there's anyone here who responded to your original post who hadn't wanted the same guidelines when our sons were a year away from high school graduation. Unfortunately, they really don't exist in the neat, ordered way that you'd like to see. In my opinion, justbaseball's response comes the closest to reflecting reality.

Best of luck to your son!

Low to mid D3. 78-81
Mid to upper D3. 80-83.

Low to mid D1. 84-88.
Upper D1. 87 and up

These are general numbers for a Rhp

I can tell you what won't get D1/D2 recruiting attention.

Summer before son's senior year he pitched in a couple events that were pretty well attended by D1/D2 head coaches. Tall, lanky RHP - FB 82 - 83 MPH. After the events a number of these coaches proactively walked up to my son to say something like "nice job out there!", basically to acknowledge that he knew how to pitch and get good hitters out.

But, he received zero actual D1/D2 recruiting attention from these coaches. He nor we were surprised by this at all.

Then, he attended a D3 recruiting event (Headfirst) threw the same velocity (82/83) and had at least 12 schools actively calling/recruiting him as a result.

Son applied early decision to a D3 school, had a great senior season.

Son ultimately increased working FB game velocity to 83 - 86 range at beginning of Frosh D3 season and earned spot in starting rotation as a D3 college Frosh.

I would say the D1/D2 coaches were spot on. Good pitcher, not enough velo for their level of ball. Son is extremely happy at D3 school. It is the right fit, ability-wise.

quote:

Originally posted by like2rake:
I can tell you what won't get D1/D2 recruiting attention.

Summer before son's senior year he pitched in a couple events that were pretty well attended by D1/D2 head coaches. Tall, lanky RHP - FB 82 - 83 MPH. After the events a number of these coaches proactively walked up to my son to say something like "nice job out there!", basically to acknowledge that he knew how to pitch and get good hitters out.

But, he received zero actual D1/D2 recruiting attention from these coaches. He nor we were surprised by this at all.

Then, he attended a D3 recruiting event (Headfirst) threw the same velocity (82/83) and had at least 12 schools actively calling/recruiting him as a result.

Son applied early decision to a D3 school, had a great senior season.

Son ultimately increased working FB game velocity to 83 - 86 range at beginning of Frosh D3 season and earned spot in starting rotation as a D3 college Frosh.

I would say the D1/D2 coaches were spot on. Good pitcher, not enough velo for their level of ball. Son is extremely happy at D3 school. It is the right fit, ability-wise.

Nice story. This is what the site is all about imho - finding the right fit!

This is a great thread. Hopefully it continues.

2013leftydad- Your son can't control what the coaches are looking for. He can only control what he shows them. Here are some things he should be working on. If possible, all of them put together makes a pretty darn good pitcher.

Command of all pitches

Consistency of all pitches

Sharpness of all pitches

Velocity of all pitches

Repeatability of mechanics

Stamina (tied into consistency and repeatability)

Movement of all pitches

Baseball IQ- knowing how to pitch

Physical appearance/work ethic

Mental toughness/poise/demeanor

While a defined answer to your question would be wonderful, it cannot possibly be provided. But, in my opinion, its not something that should be your son's #1 priority. If he works hard, and continues to work hard, and puts himself in the right places, things will fall into place.

Self-promotion is not shameless in baseball recruiting. Often times being proactive leads to wonderful opportunities...and I say that from personal experience. If your son has an idea of what he wants, then guide him to work for it. Do everything in his power to reach that goal.

There's a great story about a high school infielder from Mentor, Ohio who was being recruited by some top level DIII schools in his area. He was 147 lbs. and had a good skill set, but not enough physical attributes for any other school to care. His dream school- Coastal Carolina University- told him he wasn't good enough to play for their team. Instead of crumbling and settling for something he knew he didn't want- he took it as motivation. He showed up to a prospect camp on Coastal's campus several months later...20 pounds heavier and better in all aspects of the game. He suddenly found himself being offered a roster spot with the Chanticleers.

He's continuing to attempt to defy all of the naysayers he's ever had...and does it through hustle, determination and dedication: Tyler Bortnick

If your son has his mind set on something- reach for the stars. Even if you miss, you'll end up on the moon.

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
This is a great thread. Hopefully it continues.

2013leftydad- Your son can't control what the coaches are looking for. He can only control what he shows them. Here are some things he should be working on. If possible, all of them put together makes a pretty darn good pitcher.

Command of all pitches

Consistency of all pitches

Sharpness of all pitches

Velocity of all pitches

Repeatability of mechanics

Stamina (tied into consistency and repeatability)

Movement of all pitches

Baseball IQ- knowing how to pitch

Physical appearance/work ethic

Mental toughness/poise/demeanor

While a defined answer to your question would be wonderful, it cannot possibly be provided. But, in my opinion, its not something that should be your son's #1 priority. If he works hard, and continues to work hard, and puts himself in the right places, things will fall into place.

Self-promotion is not shameless in baseball recruiting. Often times being proactive leads to wonderful opportunities...and I say that from personal experience. If your son has an idea of what he wants, then guide him to work for it. Do everything in his power to reach that goal.

There's a great story about a high school infielder from Mentor, Ohio who was being recruited by some top level DIII schools in his area. He was 147 lbs. and had a good skill set, but not enough physical attributes for any other school to care. His dream school- Coastal Carolina University- told him he wasn't good enough to play for their team. Instead of crumbling and settling for something he knew he didn't want- he took it as motivation. He showed up to a prospect camp on Coastal's campus several months later...20 pounds heavier and better in all aspects of the game. He suddenly found himself being offered a roster spot with the Chanticleers.

He's continuing to attempt to defy all of the naysayers he's ever had...and does it through hustle, determination and dedication: Tyler Bortnick

If your son has his mind set on something- reach for the stars. Even if you miss, you'll end up on the moon.

Josh - that is awfully nice for you to mention Tyler that way. First, he gets all the credit. Secondly, for athletes, overcoming a negative can sometimes be way more powerful than affirming the accolades. Either way, you have to take the hand you are dealt and do something with it.

CD- Its his birthday today...everyone has to be nice to him

Not sure about the accuracy of the site or link, but it is interesting.

http://athleticscholarships.co...cruiting-guidelines/

I have issues with the physical sizes listed. If you see a 6'2", 170 kid you can look at potential upside based on packing on 25 pounds of muscle. But, it's about being able to execute skills on the field. If a kid runs a 6.6 and can hit his size doesn't matter?