What happens after the call

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
Bleacherdad, make that coach put his money where his mouth is and express interest by asking him to waive the "camp fee". Going to these camps are expensive with travel and lodging costs thrown in.

Bet you'll know for sure what "list" he really is on.

Good luck, you'll need it.

The coach cannot waive the camp fee. It would be an NCAA violation.

It can't even be reduced to a recruitable player.

The above two responses is correct. No coach can waive any camp fee.

My advice for any camp invite that may look like they are generally interested (without previous contact), have your player call the coach about the camp, if he has no idea who your son is....well you figure it out.

Best of luck!

Prepster, let me guess, NCAA rules forbid it.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
The above two responses is correct. No coach can waive any camp fee.

My advice for any camp invite that may look like they are generally interested (without previous contact), have your player call the coach about the camp, if he has no idea who your son is....well you figure it out.

Best of luck!

Well said TPM.

Yep. Just as jemaz indicated.

Pop Up Hitter:

Even if they could, I'm not sure having the coach "put his money where his mouth is" by waiving a whole $125 camp fee will clue us into their intentions.

Unlike most of the kids mentioned on this site who have coaches pounding on their doors our son has to go to showcases and camps to garner attention and interest. (Sarcasm...we know 95% of kids have to work hard to be noticed).

We are not stupid, we know that the coach is taking a chance recruiting a kid that isn't even 17 yet. But the coach was honest about what they project in 2-3 years and that is where their interest is. Do I blame the coach for wanting our son to come to them if he really wants a chance to be involved in their program? NO, not at all.

The coach was very honest in saying that their program is being supported largely through their football program and that their program was left adrift by the previous staff. They are working hard to rebuild the program and I appreciate them being wise with their recruiting $$. Why would you spend $$ recruiting an Iowa kid when you could find a Florida kid with similar abilities? It becomes my kid's job to show them why!

If we were truly naive about our son's recruiting rank and only see our son through rose colored glasses, we would be less likely to make the trip and just wait for the knock on the door.

I was glad to read the posts above about fee waiver option, because it indicates that you may not really know as much about how the majority of kids are recruited anyway.

As for whether it is just a gimmick to get a camp fee, this coach knows our son, gave our son his cell#, and invited him down for an unofficial visit and toured him around the campus and facilities for an hour, plus introduced him to the head coach. I'm guessing there is at least some interest...and for that we will go to their showcase.

quote:

Originally posted by Bleacher Dad:

We are not stupid, we know that the coach is taking a chance recruiting a kid that isn't even 17 yet.

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I wasn't implying that anyone was stupid, naive maybe but not stupid. They may be taking a chance on a 17 year old, but what to you say about recruiting JC kids with 2 years experience and known stats and not playing them? And all this with 100% scholarships.
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If we were truly naive about our son's recruiting rank and only see our son through rose colored glasses, we would be less likely to make the trip and just wait for the knock on the door.

I was glad to read the posts above about fee waiver option, because it indicates that you may not really know as much about how the majority of kids are recruited anyway.
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That may be, but it brings to light how one sided the recruiting process is. For many it is a one time affair and we can't go back and have a do over.
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As for whether it is just a gimmick to get a camp fee, this coach knows our son, gave our son his cell#, and invited him down for an unofficial visit and toured him around the campus and facilities for an hour, plus introduced him to the head coach. I'm guessing there is at least some interest...and for that we will go to their showcase.

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Now that we know the full story, sure doesn't sound like a revenue gimmick at least in your son's case.

I am not sure what the above scenerio for JUCO recruits has to do with first time HS recruiting. I would imagine that for most, the second time around should be easier to figure out.

Most coaches are honest in their dealings with recruits, but the interpretation as to their intentions is often misunderstood by many. At some point you have to trust your gut and if you make a mistake then you move forward with that knowledge to make the next experience (contact with another coach) better.

What does a coach really need to say to any player in recruiting? Coach offers a player a spot on the roster by way of scholarship either athletic or academic (he's done his part) and then the player has to do whatever he can to be better than the other guy to earn his playtime (this is his part), that is how it is in any level of baseball. Just because the player has obtained a great scholarship doesn't guarantee anything but his education being paid for, which IMO is the whole purpose of obtaining a scholarship in the first place.

My son also got a call from his dream school at 9am on July 1. The coach told him he was going to stop up and see his Legion game that Friday. The Head coach and an assistant did come to the game, talk to him briefly before the game but only stayed for 5 innings before leaving. Son feels like he did not do well enough since they left early. Is it normal for them to not stay the entire game. Seems like all the other coaches that attended games stayed for the whole game or the majority of it. Haven't heard from the coach since the game.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Most coaches are honest in their dealings with recruits, but the interpretation as to their intentions is often misunderstood by many.

Again TPM hits the mark, not all coaches are honest, and my son happened to find the wrong one.


What does a coach really need to say to any player in recruiting? Coach offers a player a spot on the roster by way of scholarship either athletic or academic (he's done his part) and then the player has to do whatever he can to be better than the other guy to earn his playtime (this is his part), that is how it is in any level of baseball. Just because the player has obtained a great scholarship doesn't guarantee anything but his education being paid for, which IMO is the whole purpose of obtaining a scholarship in the first place.

Good point, but when one only hears one side of the story, does this mean that all the disheartened ex D1 players just weren't good enough, lazy, disrespectful of coaches, etc, etc. Or were they really recruited as back ups for their stars? Parents will never know because the other side doesn't communicate. Son would rather have had to take out a loan and be able to play that get 100% to be a backup. As a parent, the money helps, but buyer beware, that 100% offer means no more than a 10% or walk on offer.

Do you know how many kids get minimum scholarships to play behind the better guys and end up as starters? Do you know how many later draft round picks get picked so that they can be part of the "team" that makes up the prospects and then move past the prospects.

I was watching an interview with David Freeze the other night, you do know that he gave up baseball in college. When he decided to come back in the game a year later he said he had to work harder than anything in his life to get back in. Hours in teh cage, hours taking grounders, hours and hours on his own, to be better than anyone else, and that is just what happened. He continued to do so when he was drafted and it was noticed by the cards when he got traded. As last year's MVP he still works just as hard because the other guy behind him is always there to take his spot and in this game the better man always plays.

In case you don't get my point, maybe the other guy is just the better player and if your son didn't want the money he could have left and gone somewhere else, or he could bust his gut to find a way to get better. I know if it were my son, he would do whatever he had to improve.

The money absolutely helps but IMO that really doesn't have anything to do with what happens after the coach calls, does it?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

I was watching an interview with David Freeze the other night, you do know that he gave up baseball in college. When he decided to come back in the game a year later he said he had to work harder than anything in his life to get back in. Hours in teh cage, hours taking grounders, hours and hours on his own, to be better than anyone else, and that is just what happened. He continued to do so when he was drafted and it was noticed by the cards when he got traded. As last year's MVP he still works just as hard because the other guy behind him is always there to take his spot and in this game the better man always plays.

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David Freeze can play baseball sleepwalking better than most players can after hours of practice, wide awake. Sounds like a good story for the press.

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In case you don't get my point, maybe the other guy is just the better player and if your son didn't want the money he could have left and gone somewhere else, or he could bust his gut to find a way to get better. I know if it were my son, he would do whatever he had to improve.

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You heard it here first folks, TPM again is trashing my son, alluding to lack of talent, laziness, and overstaying his welcome.

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The money absolutely helps but IMO that really doesn't have anything to do with what happens after the coach calls, does it?

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You may have a point here.

Living in the information age that we do, I might suggest that normally a parent should have a general idea of where his son belongs in the recruting hierarchy by July 1. No different than finding the right fit academically, a parent should have an understanding by now which schools might be "reach" schools, good fits and safety schools for baseball purposes.

When your son starts to get contacted by schools, as an adult you can evaluate the contacts based on your objective assessment (as best you can) to determine if these schools may be a reasonable choice. You can then provide better guidance to him regarding the next steps.

Frankly the small amount of control you have in these situations is directly proportional to the amount of talent your son has and the amount of information you are able to objectively evaluate regarding his talent and the schools (and coaches) who are contacting him.

This process is one of the last phases of youth and one of the first steps in a young man's journey into the adult world. As usual Fenway offers great advice. Parents of recruits would be wise to listen and learn from what he has to say.

Good luck, have fun.

Good advice above.

PUHD,
My intention was not to discredit your son, if that is how you perceieved it, I apologize. You and I have spoken about this before, so you know that is not my intention, but rather to help you and others to understand the process as well and when it is time to help amd when it is time to step aside. If your son made the decision to attend that particualr D1 and not happy, he needs to do certain things to make his situation better. I know that you feel slighted for him, however, I wanted you to know that here on the HSBBW, there are parents whose sons have had to make a change this year, because as you know things don't always work out as planeed, yet I or others have not heard one negative word posted about the coach, the situation here or in private. I really admire that.

Whatever I have said I would say to my own son, don't think that your son is the only to sit on the bench and watch others play. It's the player that has to take the intiative to make positive changes, whether it be improving his game or speaking to the coach one on one, not about playing time but how he can improve to help his team win.

Keep in mind that your son's college career is not over. It's unproductive to speak negatively about the situation while your son is still under a coach, and keep in mind in baseball, things change frequently, doors open everyday, one has to be ready to step in and take over.

quote:

Originally posted by ericchaney:
My son also got a call from his dream school at 9am on July 1. The coach told him he was going to stop up and see his Legion game that Friday. The Head coach and an assistant did come to the game, talk to him briefly before the game but only stayed for 5 innings before leaving. Son feels like he did not do well enough since they left early. Is it normal for them to not stay the entire game. Seems like all the other coaches that attended games stayed for the whole game or the majority of it. Haven't heard from the coach since the game.

First off, great news on getting a call. I'm sure you know the majority of kids who want to play ball in college never get that call.

I wouldn't fret much over the early departure; who knows how long they had been working that day or where they had to go.

Why not just have your son shoot them a note thanking them for the call and attending the game and have him give them his schedule for the next few weeks?

This is what we went through after the calls ( son just finished his first year of college). July 1st son received a number of calls, but the one he really wanted to hear from did not call. Some of the calls we knew were ones where they already had 12+ commits so we were thrilled to hear from them but also knew the reality of those numbers. Around 1/2 of the calls gave % over the phones and wanted a commitment right away..others invited him to the school while others wanted his perfect game schedule for the 17U tournament that was going to take place the following week. My son sent emails to all schools and others that he did not hear from attaching his weekly schedule. Dream school came and saw him in Georgia and called that night inviting us to campus to discuss possible scholarship. They said they did not call on July 1st since they did not see him pitch in a live game and didn't want to send the wrong message. This is the part i was unsure of... When an offer is made can you or should you negotiate? I asked this of a few who already went through the process and they said... if your dream school (academically/athletically) is making you an offer be careful not to insult them or make waves...if you have your choices narrowed down to a few then you have a little flexibility on how you want to handle the offers/negotiations. In our case we did not want to make any waves. The offer was very good and the statements behind the offer were also very reassuring. He accepted while on campus. Flash forward a year and now he is in his fall semester...he is talking with another freshman..who mentions to him...that once my son accepted this player received a call from the coach..since he did not accept the offer right away when presented to him..they called to sweeten his deal..He said I thought you didn't have anymore to give? They said we got a kid from (state) cheaper than we expected..since my son is the only freshman from the state he mentioned they were obviously referring to him. In this player's defense he had 3 or 4 schools he liked equally. ..I don't regret how we handled it, but I sure learned a lot and now that has made me better prepared for my second child (if offers do come).

Your son did exactly what the coaches probably expected, he went on a visit to his dream school and he accepted the offer while there (what they wanted him to do) so that meant that you/he was satisfied that it was fair at the time?

Did your son have a good year and was he happy? In the end shouldn't that be the deciding factor? That is all that really counts.

Yes your son can counter offer, but do not be surprised if it doesn't change.

Yes state players accepting less always opens the door for more money for out of state players. Not a secret. They told your son they didn't call because they hadn't seen him play, but reality was that the other guy never came through.

People have to keep in mind that they do this once maybe twice but coaches do it hundreds of times.

The coach really had no business discussing that with the other player. Seems pretty unprofessional in that regard.

It's good that you learned and able to share, but one should always keep in mind that every situation is different, this is not a one size fits all.