Skip to main content

Replies sorted oldest to newest

A good offer is one from a school that the player really likes and the school really likes the player.  It will give him some relief against the costs of a school that leaves the final spend considered affordable and likely to bring back a worthwhile ROI.  There is no formula, $$ amount, % or other that is the same for any two players.  Even 100% free would be the wrong school for many for a variety of reasons.

Last edited by cabbagedad

I don't think you will get an answer with that little info.  Not sure you would get an answer with a lot of info.  Really not sure what "fair" means to you.  How good is the player?  If good enough to get several offers from schools, that should be enough of a market to gauge what's fair.  If only from one school, 25%-35% tops.  That means no one else "bid" on the kid.

When it is truly financial, it seems to me 100% JUCO scholarship for one or two years, then transfer in is the most cost effective four year plan.  (Academic money aside, if 1600 SAT, can play for free somewhere)

We knew what my son would get offered....it was going to be 25%....he was a 5'11, 160 lb RHP throwing 87-88 at the time.  We also knew he would get academic money due to a 31 ACT and a good GPA.   When he got offered, he got 25% and his academic money amounted to another 25%.  50% total was good enough for us....and he took the first offer he got.  School is very reasonable ($20K including room/board) so we're on the hook for $10K/year.  I can't complain.    He was talking to a school that was $43K....meaning 25% would have gotten him 11K....and another 14K for academics.  I would have been ok with covering $18K....good school, good program.   He was contacted by another....$60K, no baseball money....and $28-30K academic....leaving $30-32K.....that wasn't going to happen.  Great school, but he would have never considered it if not for baseball.  We weren''t going to pay $30K to play baseball.  

As someone said, it's tough to give you numbers based on no info....but a 2019 RHP is likely going to be 25-30% unless he's already 6'2+ and throwing 90.  Good luck to your son....enjoy next summer, that's when things will start getting serious with regard to recruiting for a 2019.

My 2017 5'11 180lb 7.0 60 yd INF 28 ACT 4+ GPA also has a total of around 50% in scholarships.  Split between 25% athletic and 25% academic. His school is private and leaves him with around $20k in loans per year.  The biggest selling point for us was they really wanted him and the coach is willing to support him being a STEM major.

Ja'Crispy posted:

My 2017 5'11 180lb 7.0 60 yd INF 28 ACT 4+ GPA also has a total of around 50% in scholarships.  Split between 25% athletic and 25% academic. His school is private and leaves him with around $20k in loans per year.  The biggest selling point for us was they really wanted him and the coach is willing to support him being a STEM major.

Both rare and really good to hear.  (the STEM major)

Go44dad posted:
Ja'Crispy posted:

My 2017 5'11 180lb 7.0 60 yd INF 28 ACT 4+ GPA also has a total of around 50% in scholarships.  Split between 25% athletic and 25% academic. His school is private and leaves him with around $20k in loans per year.  The biggest selling point for us was they really wanted him and the coach is willing to support him being a STEM major.

Both rare and really good to hear.  (the STEM major)

Yes, he was very fortunate to to find that fit. Being math oriented he really wanted to find a coach that would allow baseball and a science major. As a Freshman just starting out in college baseball he won't know for sure until it plays out, but the coach has recruited kids away from other teams with supporting intensive STEM or Accounting majors. That made us comfortable.

3and2Fastball posted:

The best offers go to those likely to be picked in the 1st Round of the MLB Draft and on down from there.

What is the player's pitching velocity in mph?  What is his height & weight?  Which events has he played in the summer?  What is his Perfect Game grade?

You hit on some good points.

For pitchers, it's not always about velocity or height but rather how may offerings (different pitches he has ).

The most important thing is can he throw strikes and get people out.  It's also about being a good team mate and coachable.  Some people work too hard at gaining velocity but forget to work on their pitches. 

Also, keep in mind a lot of money goes to those the coach wants to not go pro or go to play the conference opponent.

 

Last edited by TPM

I have heard recently (and some of you who have had kids go to college already feel free to chime in) that the average scholarship is 50%. To me that makes sense in a program that is fully funded and one that isn't. Difference being those teams that don't fully fund will probably spend those scholarships on pitching. I have met kids who are walk on sat private schools who are paying far more than $30K to play ball there. 

SDR,

If you meant athletic scholarships, and the program fully funds, it might be more like 40% give or take for 27. However, starting pitchers, catchers, and ss command more. And there are many players who will get 25 athletic max and academic (who said grades aren't important).

And don't forget the public universities in the states that give hope scholarships (tuition) can easily combine that with athletic and make it more affordable. Awarding scholarships is an art, but I am pretty sure that there is a program that does make it easy!

 

Last edited by TPM
TPM posted:

SDR,

If you meant athletic scholarships, and the program fully funds, it might be more like 40% give or take for 27. However, starting pitchers, catchers, and ss command more. And there are many players who will get 25 athletic max and academic (who said grades aren't important).

And don't forget the public universities in the states that give hope scholarships (tuition) can easily combine that with athletic and make it more affordable. Awarding scholarships is an art, but I am pretty sure that there is a program that does make it easy!

 

Easy? You mean to say at some point this all becomes easy???? :-)

I think you're making a big mistake if you try to reduce the process to comparing what your son has been offered to someone's estimate based upon what others have received; whether generally or specifically to an individual program. I think that's a trap, fraught with a bunch of fuzzy estimates and evaluations.

Instead, in line with a couple of opinions expressed earlier here, I've always considered a "good offer" to be one that enabled a player to attend a school that seemed to fit him well as a player, a student, and as a person. If that goal is achieved within a family's budget, then hasn't a "good offer" been received?

In our case, our son chose to attend the program that offered him the least, initially, by a rather large margin. He did so because his sense of "fit" there was especially strong; and, despite the relative paucity of the offer, we could afford to send him there.

Also influential was the fact that the Head Coach had suggested that if he played to the level they thought he might be capable of achieving,they would find a way to increase his athletic scholarship over time. The coach also recommended that I speak with the parents of a couple of then-current players who had had similar experiences. I did and found that the coach's assertions were verifiable.

In the end, our son received a great education at a school he loved and made enough of a contribution to the baseball program that the coach systematically increased his level of support. As a result, his stipend grew from a total of $750 in his first semester to his senior year; when we had to contribute only about 10% of his total expenses for the year.

To reiterate, a "good offer" makes it possible to pursue one's goals in the best possible environment.

Last edited by Prepster

A good offer is something that makes it affordable but also enough so that the coaches/program have a vested interest.  My son's offer was a mix of merit and baseball money so I am not sure of the percentage of the 11.7 scholarships he was awarded. He was out of state with room and board over $30K and we ended up with $10K a year out of pocket. (for fall and spring semester)  and it was guaranteed for 4 years. (he is an infielder)

Last edited by JLC
SanDiegoRealist posted:
TPM posted:

SDR,

If you meant athletic scholarships, and the program fully funds, it might be more like 40% give or take for 27. However, starting pitchers, catchers, and ss command more. And there are many players who will get 25 athletic max and academic (who said grades aren't important).

And don't forget the public universities in the states that give hope scholarships (tuition) can easily combine that with athletic and make it more affordable. Awarding scholarships is an art, but I am pretty sure that there is a program that does make it easy!

 

Easy? You mean to say at some point this all becomes easy???? :-)

Easy is the intersection of my son wants to play there and I can afford to send him (or he graduates with manageable debt).

A good offer is being able to attend a great academic college who has your major, giving you the opportunity to play the game you love.  You will obtain this education at a discounted price.  Reality is very few college players will go to the next level and be successful (The Show).  Key is to balance an offer with the type of college education and experience.  My son attended a highly ranked D1 university both in academics and baseball with a little over the minimum scholarship for D1. Throughout the years he was able to increase the scholarship considerably based on his success. He is now a professional baseball player. His life dream was to play professional ball yet he was realistic knowing he needed a good education. College baseball is a full time job for full time students thus with hard work, some luck, and his talent he can turn the initial offer into something better. "Worst case scenario" is after 4 years he will have a valuable degree while playing the game he loves. 

Trust In Him posted:

A good offer is being able to attend a great academic college who has your major, giving you the opportunity to play the game you love.  You will obtain this education at a discounted price.  Reality is very few college players will go to the next level and be successful (The Show).  Key is to balance an offer with the type of college education and experience.  My son attended a highly ranked D1 university both in academics and baseball with a little over the minimum scholarship for D1. Throughout the years he was able to increase the scholarship considerably based on his success. He is now a professional baseball player. His life dream was to play professional ball yet he was realistic knowing he needed a good education. College baseball is a full time job for full time students thus with hard work, some luck, and his talent he can turn the initial offer into something better. "Worst case scenario" is after 4 years he will have a valuable degree while playing the game he loves. 

Great post from a new poster. Welcome, stick around, we need experienced parents to help others understand the process.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

We knew what my son would get offered....it was going to be 25%....he was a 5'11, 160 lb RHP throwing 87-88 at the time.  We also knew he would get academic money due to a 31 ACT and a good GPA.   When he got offered, he got 25% and his academic money amounted to another 25%.  50% total was good enough for us....and he took the first offer he got.  School is very reasonable ($20K including room/board) so we're on the hook for $10K/year.  I can't complain.    He was talking to a school that was $43K....meaning 25% would have gotten him 11K....and another 14K for academics.  I would have been ok with covering $18K....good school, good program.   He was contacted by another....$60K, no baseball money....and $28-30K academic....leaving $30-32K.....that wasn't going to happen.  Great school, but he would have never considered it if not for baseball.  We weren''t going to pay $30K to play baseball.  

As someone said, it's tough to give you numbers based on no info....but a 2019 RHP is likely going to be 25-30% unless he's already 6'2+ and throwing 90.  Good luck to your son....enjoy next summer, that's when things will start getting serious with regard to recruiting for a 2019.

Since PBR shows 77 out of the top 100 RHPs for 2019 are already committed I'd say it's already pretty serious!

KilroyJ posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

We knew what my son would get offered....it was going to be 25%....he was a 5'11, 160 lb RHP throwing 87-88 at the time.  We also knew he would get academic money due to a 31 ACT and a good GPA.   When he got offered, he got 25% and his academic money amounted to another 25%.  50% total was good enough for us....and he took the first offer he got.  School is very reasonable ($20K including room/board) so we're on the hook for $10K/year.  I can't complain.    He was talking to a school that was $43K....meaning 25% would have gotten him 11K....and another 14K for academics.  I would have been ok with covering $18K....good school, good program.   He was contacted by another....$60K, no baseball money....and $28-30K academic....leaving $30-32K.....that wasn't going to happen.  Great school, but he would have never considered it if not for baseball.  We weren''t going to pay $30K to play baseball.  

As someone said, it's tough to give you numbers based on no info....but a 2019 RHP is likely going to be 25-30% unless he's already 6'2+ and throwing 90.  Good luck to your son....enjoy next summer, that's when things will start getting serious with regard to recruiting for a 2019.

Since PBR shows 77 out of the top 100 RHPs for 2019 are already committed I'd say it's already pretty serious!

No offense intended but general statements like this are what had me really stressed out about my 2018 RHP. Felt like I was in panic mode this summer because my son did not have a scholarship offer. He almost accepted a top juco offer because we were told that D1's were all done recruiting 2018's.  I don't know about other positions but if a pitcher is able to demonstrate strength in something that a program values (velocity, command, etc), then that pitcher is going to have options even after summer before senior year...especially with schools that lose recruits/players to the draft. My son received 2 offers within one week at tail end of summer with one of those being D1. That program had previously shared with another coach that they did not have any scholarship money left before they made offer. My son has been in touch with 2 other D1 programs this past week and we are heading out on Friday where he will throw for one of those same programs. I know our situation does not apply to many but I think it is critical that you evaluate your situation based on your child's abilities (which should be confirmed by someone with in depth knowledge of recruiting). Long story short, if your kid has the talent to play college baseball, there will be options summer before senior year and maybe even in to the fall!

As to original question, I have been told by someone with extensive knowledge of D1 college recruiting that the standard athletic scholarship for RHP's is 25-40%. This is why it is so important to take care of those grades and working hard to score well on ACT/SAT so that the academic $ will help offset the big gap between athletic % and total cost to attend college.

coachld posted:
KilroyJ posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

We knew what my son would get offered....it was going to be 25%....he was a 5'11, 160 lb RHP throwing 87-88 at the time.  We also knew he would get academic money due to a 31 ACT and a good GPA.   When he got offered, he got 25% and his academic money amounted to another 25%.  50% total was good enough for us....and he took the first offer he got.  School is very reasonable ($20K including room/board) so we're on the hook for $10K/year.  I can't complain.    He was talking to a school that was $43K....meaning 25% would have gotten him 11K....and another 14K for academics.  I would have been ok with covering $18K....good school, good program.   He was contacted by another....$60K, no baseball money....and $28-30K academic....leaving $30-32K.....that wasn't going to happen.  Great school, but he would have never considered it if not for baseball.  We weren''t going to pay $30K to play baseball.  

As someone said, it's tough to give you numbers based on no info....but a 2019 RHP is likely going to be 25-30% unless he's already 6'2+ and throwing 90.  Good luck to your son....enjoy next summer, that's when things will start getting serious with regard to recruiting for a 2019.

Since PBR shows 77 out of the top 100 RHPs for 2019 are already committed I'd say it's already pretty serious!

No offense intended but general statements like this are what had me really stressed out about my 2018 RHP. Felt like I was in panic mode this summer because my son did not have a scholarship offer. He almost accepted a top juco offer because we were told that D1's were all done recruiting 2018's.  I don't know about other positions but if a pitcher is able to demonstrate strength in something that a program values (velocity, command, etc), then that pitcher is going to have options even after summer before senior year...especially with schools that lose recruits/players to the draft. My son received 2 offers within one week at tail end of summer with one of those being D1. That program had previously shared with another coach that they did not have any scholarship money left before they made offer. My son has been in touch with 2 other D1 programs this past week and we are heading out on Friday where he will throw for one of those same programs. I know our situation does not apply to many but I think it is critical that you evaluate your situation based on your child's abilities (which should be confirmed by someone with in depth knowledge of recruiting). Long story short, if your kid has the talent to play college baseball, there will be options summer before senior year and maybe even in to the fall!

As to original question, I have been told by someone with extensive knowledge of D1 college recruiting that the standard athletic scholarship for RHP's is 25-40%. This is why it is so important to take care of those grades and working hard to score well on ACT/SAT so that the academic $ will help offset the big gap between athletic % and total cost to attend college.

Coach, you get a pat on the back!! You get it!! The process, trusting the process and being patient! Every individual has his own unique path and not getting impatient is certainly tough to do when it seems everyone around you is committing. Your son will find his fit with your guidance, nice job!

What's pretty serious, is the player that is truly wanted. It's all about the "fit" and where you can play. 

Kilroy - I wouldn't hang too much weight on PBR or rankings. Neither makes a difference at the college level. Do your homework. The top '16 LHP in his state (according to PG and PBR), that happened to toss 95+, was on the '17 roster and never played in a game for the Hogs and is now a statistic for Freshman turnover. 

coachld posted:
KilroyJ posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

We knew what my son would get offered....it was going to be 25%....he was a 5'11, 160 lb RHP throwing 87-88 at the time.  We also knew he would get academic money due to a 31 ACT and a good GPA.   When he got offered, he got 25% and his academic money amounted to another 25%.  50% total was good enough for us....and he took the first offer he got.  School is very reasonable ($20K including room/board) so we're on the hook for $10K/year.  I can't complain.    He was talking to a school that was $43K....meaning 25% would have gotten him 11K....and another 14K for academics.  I would have been ok with covering $18K....good school, good program.   He was contacted by another....$60K, no baseball money....and $28-30K academic....leaving $30-32K.....that wasn't going to happen.  Great school, but he would have never considered it if not for baseball.  We weren''t going to pay $30K to play baseball.  

As someone said, it's tough to give you numbers based on no info....but a 2019 RHP is likely going to be 25-30% unless he's already 6'2+ and throwing 90.  Good luck to your son....enjoy next summer, that's when things will start getting serious with regard to recruiting for a 2019.

Since PBR shows 77 out of the top 100 RHPs for 2019 are already committed I'd say it's already pretty serious!

No offense intended but general statements like this are what had me really stressed out about my 2018 RHP. Felt like I was in panic mode this summer because my son did not have a scholarship offer. He almost accepted a top juco offer because we were told that D1's were all done recruiting 2018's.  I don't know about other positions but if a pitcher is able to demonstrate strength in something that a program values (velocity, command, etc), then that pitcher is going to have options even after summer before senior year...especially with schools that lose recruits/players to the draft. My son received 2 offers within one week at tail end of summer with one of those being D1. That program had previously shared with another coach that they did not have any scholarship money left before they made offer. My son has been in touch with 2 other D1 programs this past week and we are heading out on Friday where he will throw for one of those same programs. I know our situation does not apply to many but I think it is critical that you evaluate your situation based on your child's abilities (which should be confirmed by someone with in depth knowledge of recruiting). Long story short, if your kid has the talent to play college baseball, there will be options summer before senior year and maybe even in to the fall!

As to original question, I have been told by someone with extensive knowledge of D1 college recruiting that the standard athletic scholarship for RHP's is 25-40%. This is why it is so important to take care of those grades and working hard to score well on ACT/SAT so that the academic $ will help offset the big gap between athletic % and total cost to attend college.

Coach,   you make a great point here, and a correlation to this - just because your kid may have committed early  doesn't mean things can't change.  Even if they have committed a kid, they are always looking to upgrade, and it isn't unheard of for a school to de-commit a kid to make room for a late commit-   maybe the school that ends up getting your son is currently out of money- and maybe they'll  have to make room by de-committing another kid?  who knows? 

I wish "they", would change the system.   As has been discussed on this board many times in multiple threads, they early commit "system" is out of control, something should be done about it.    the way it stands now, the kid is essentially committed,  but the school may or may not be.  they hold all the cards. 

Ok, done with my rant-  seriously, congratulations to your son, sounds like he has options!

 

 

Backpick25 posted:
coachld posted:
KilroyJ posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

We knew what my son would get offered....it was going to be 25%....he was a 5'11, 160 lb RHP throwing 87-88 at the time.  We also knew he would get academic money due to a 31 ACT and a good GPA.   When he got offered, he got 25% and his academic money amounted to another 25%.  50% total was good enough for us....and he took the first offer he got.  School is very reasonable ($20K including room/board) so we're on the hook for $10K/year.  I can't complain.    He was talking to a school that was $43K....meaning 25% would have gotten him 11K....and another 14K for academics.  I would have been ok with covering $18K....good school, good program.   He was contacted by another....$60K, no baseball money....and $28-30K academic....leaving $30-32K.....that wasn't going to happen.  Great school, but he would have never considered it if not for baseball.  We weren''t going to pay $30K to play baseball.  

As someone said, it's tough to give you numbers based on no info....but a 2019 RHP is likely going to be 25-30% unless he's already 6'2+ and throwing 90.  Good luck to your son....enjoy next summer, that's when things will start getting serious with regard to recruiting for a 2019.

Since PBR shows 77 out of the top 100 RHPs for 2019 are already committed I'd say it's already pretty serious!

No offense intended but general statements like this are what had me really stressed out about my 2018 RHP. Felt like I was in panic mode this summer because my son did not have a scholarship offer. He almost accepted a top juco offer because we were told that D1's were all done recruiting 2018's.  I don't know about other positions but if a pitcher is able to demonstrate strength in something that a program values (velocity, command, etc), then that pitcher is going to have options even after summer before senior year...especially with schools that lose recruits/players to the draft. My son received 2 offers within one week at tail end of summer with one of those being D1. That program had previously shared with another coach that they did not have any scholarship money left before they made offer. My son has been in touch with 2 other D1 programs this past week and we are heading out on Friday where he will throw for one of those same programs. I know our situation does not apply to many but I think it is critical that you evaluate your situation based on your child's abilities (which should be confirmed by someone with in depth knowledge of recruiting). Long story short, if your kid has the talent to play college baseball, there will be options summer before senior year and maybe even in to the fall!

As to original question, I have been told by someone with extensive knowledge of D1 college recruiting that the standard athletic scholarship for RHP's is 25-40%. This is why it is so important to take care of those grades and working hard to score well on ACT/SAT so that the academic $ will help offset the big gap between athletic % and total cost to attend college.

Coach, you get a pat on the back!! You get it!! The process, trusting the process and being patient! Every individual has his own unique path and not getting impatient is certainly tough to do when it seems everyone around you is committing. Your son will find his fit with your guidance, nice job!

What's pretty serious, is the player that is truly wanted. It's all about the "fit" and where you can play. 

Kilroy - I wouldn't hang too much weight on PBR or rankings. Neither makes a difference at the college level. Do your homework. The top '16 LHP in his state (according to PG and PBR), that happened to toss 95+, was on the '17 roster and never played in a game for the Hogs and is now a statistic for Freshman turnover. 

Great stuff here.   Every prospect and parent whether they get a 25% - 60% athletic ride envision themself being a contributor, starter and all conference player during their college career.  Odds are though it may not happen due to talent, injury, outside influences, etc.  Get the best education you can using baseball money.   A HC may take away or diminish your college baseball experience but nobody can take away your college degree.  Finances are a critical part in the decision and hopefully the entire college experience is given the appropriate weighted considerations.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

The 25-40% number is about right....with 40% being for the the 6'4, 240 pound kids who are already  90+ and look to have room to add to that. 

Have seen 60-80% for MIF's that can hit for our state schools.  Coaches saw player being an impact player immediately and they had a need.   Rare but exists.

Earlier someone posted that going JUCO is a good way to go, because you may not have to pay any tuition for the first year.  That is true, and my son did go that route, and he did not have to pay a dime for anything other than his own entertainment.  However, I would caution that this is the best way to go based only on financials. Please know that all credits may not (most likely will not) transfer, so the "free" education is skewed by the fact that some credits you took are basically worthless.

This is the situation that Ryan finds himself in at Purdue.  Several classes that he took have credits that are not transferring.  For Ryan specifically this is not a big deal, because he is taking Accounting, and he wants to be a CPA.  The requirements are a 150 credits, and some of the credits that won't transfer he will be able to apply towards the CPA.  Hopefully it works out that way, and he will get to benefit from those credits, but now he also has to attend summer school both summers just to graduate on time.

There are a lot of opportunities for our kids, but just remember that there are potential pitfalls out there too, so do your research.

3and2Fastball posted:

Indian Hills (JUCO in Iowa) is my Kid's dream school.  Not LSU, not Vanderbilt, not Louisville.  Indian Hills.

of course my Kid always has been a little "different".

The idea of much more focus on Baseball than school, plus lower cost or no cost appeals to him.

We had a  Nephew go there. Went to a D1 after and had draft interest but opted to come home. Seemed to love it. 

Iowamom23 posted:

Son just got a D1 offer that would be no money the first year, but coach would put in writing 50% for years two, three and four. I like the promise for future years, son is hung up on initial cost. Thoughts?

We can afford this plan and it's a good school, both academically and baseball wise. 

Congrats!! I think you answered it in the bolded text.

Iowamom23 posted:

Son just got a D1 offer that would be no money the first year, but coach would put in writing 50% for years two, three and four. I like the promise for future years, son is hung up on initial cost. Thoughts?

We can afford this plan and it's a good school, both academically and baseball wise. 

Congrats on the offer.  Reading between the lines sounds like HC believes your son will have a big impact in the next few years.  If I can make a suggestion for you to consider.  See if coach will word it that 50% will be the MINIMUM he will receive in ATHLETIC scholly in years 2-4.  Reasons are that in case he rakes after his first year, many accolades, etc then possibly he has "earned" a higher award (which is common in D1 to reward and take away %'s).  Also if athletic, in case son gets academic scholly he can add that onto the minimum 50%.  I've heard some colleges will deduct other schollys amts from athletic so the overall amount of both will equal 50%.  Still a good offer.  

Trust In Him posted:
Iowamom23 posted:

Son just got a D1 offer that would be no money the first year, but coach would put in writing 50% for years two, three and four. I like the promise for future years, son is hung up on initial cost. Thoughts?

We can afford this plan and it's a good school, both academically and baseball wise. 

Congrats on the offer.  Reading between the lines sounds like HC believes your son will have a big impact in the next few years.  If I can make a suggestion for you to consider.  See if coach will word it that 50% will be the MINIMUM he will receive in ATHLETIC scholly in years 2-4.  Reasons are that in case he rakes after his first year, many accolades, etc then possibly he has "earned" a higher award (which is common in D1 to reward and take away %'s).  Also if athletic, in case son gets academic scholly he can add that onto the minimum 50%.  I've heard some colleges will deduct other schollys amts from athletic so the overall amount of both will equal 50%.  Still a good offer.  

Great suggestions. Thank you. 

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×