I do not agree with Bobbleheads statement” “Don't get hung up on the academics. Most guys are better getting a general education with some courses that interest him. Undergrad is not that big a deal.“
If one is interested in a single metric (future earnings – which is only one metric), the undergraduate degree can have a profound impact on a person’s future. See, http://www.payscale.com/best-c...alary-statistics.asp.
There are many variables to choose one school over another; but do not conclude that future economic benefits are not impacted by the choice. (Of course, we are talking about large groups of graduates and those large numbers are made up of individuals who may or not be the norm for that school. In other words, there are always outliers one way or the other.)
Those numbers are chump change. I have seen those and they are not great salaries.
I think your earning potential depends on the student.
For eg one of my son's teammates who graduated in accounting started with a six figure salary.
My son had 3 offers from top Fortune 500 companies that that started at well into six figures. One had an 8 month training program and would set him up in his own office.
Undergrad just shows what you are potentially capable of.
Today most companies give aptitude tests and train the prospect employee.
Post grad is an entirely different matter.
Post grad is an entirely different matter.
I think your earning potential depends on the student.
For eg one of my son's teammates who graduated in accounting started with a six figure salary.
My son had 3 offers from top Fortune 500 companies that that started at well into six figures. One had an 8 month training program and would set him up in his own office.
Undergrad just shows what you are potentially capable of.
Today most companies give aptitude tests and train the prospect employee.
Post grad is an entirely different matter.
Post grad is an entirely different matter.
IMHO, finding the right fit is less about the offer and more about academic, social, athletic and (I would add, especially in this economy) financial comfort. The smart coach will know that all of these are aspects in your decision, and will help you to understand the way these four factors playout for his campus.
The first factor to consider is academic fit -- even if you are admitted and can pay for the "dream school," you have to remain academically eligible to play. A big stretch academically will mean a miserable four years for the student. Also, as has been said here, there are lots more dollars there for academic scholarships and need-based scholarships. Hit the books in HS, take the hardest courses you can handle, and learn something off the field as well as on!
The plus here is also that when you make THE DECISION, you think everything is all set. But the truth is many things can and do happen in four years of college. If injury or other circumstances take away the baseball, would (and could) your son continue at this college and get his degree? If not, then I say pass and find a better fit.
Sometimes the academics aren't about getting the merit scholarship, but just getting into the school that's recruiting you. The Ivys don't give any athletic or merit scholarships, but some are very supportive of all students -- ie: FROM THE HARVARD UNIVERSITY WEBSITE: "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities." "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities." "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities."
The first factor to consider is academic fit -- even if you are admitted and can pay for the "dream school," you have to remain academically eligible to play. A big stretch academically will mean a miserable four years for the student. Also, as has been said here, there are lots more dollars there for academic scholarships and need-based scholarships. Hit the books in HS, take the hardest courses you can handle, and learn something off the field as well as on!
The plus here is also that when you make THE DECISION, you think everything is all set. But the truth is many things can and do happen in four years of college. If injury or other circumstances take away the baseball, would (and could) your son continue at this college and get his degree? If not, then I say pass and find a better fit.
Sometimes the academics aren't about getting the merit scholarship, but just getting into the school that's recruiting you. The Ivys don't give any athletic or merit scholarships, but some are very supportive of all students -- ie: FROM THE HARVARD UNIVERSITY WEBSITE: "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities." "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities." "Our new financial aid policy has dramatically reduced the amount families with incomes below $180,000 are expected to pay, and parents of families with incomes below $60,000 are not expected to contribute at all to college costs. We no longer consider home equity as a resource in our determination of a family contribution, and students are not expected to take out loans, which have been replaced by need-based Harvard scholarship. This new program has reduced the cost to middle income families by one-third to one-half, making the price of a Harvard education for students on financial aid comparable to the cost of in-state tuition and fees at the nation’s leading public universities."
There is nothing new about that program.
the Ivy schools have done this for years because they can't give athletic money.
You are right that most offers have more academic money as long as you qualify.
the Ivy schools have done this for years because they can't give athletic money.
You are right that most offers have more academic money as long as you qualify.
Get hung up on academics, because that should be the first consideration many players, as most will not go onto play after college, especailly the academically gifted. An example would be future engineers, because most top programs will frown upon doing both, sorry, for everyday important role players it's literally impossible to do both.
What will you get in return for what you pay for an expensive private school should be another consideration. Spending lots of money for, as an example, a Duke degree is well worth the opportunities handed to you later on. So if your scholarship offer is not as good at such schools, you will have a faster opportunity to pay back debt. Consider where you will live after you graduate, here in FL if you are a Nole or a Gator, great job opportunities are boundless. Most can't work, go to school and play ball at the same time. Understand that tax laws affect you according to where you reside.
Consider if it's a winning program or a losing program. IMO, a D2 with an good record is far more pleasant experience than a smaller struggling D1 program. That's a big consideration because baseball IS part of the experience. Do what is right for you as well as your player. I admire the parent that sits down with their player before it all begins, and tells them what they can and can't afford. This avoids disappointment later on when the small offer comes in and you know it will be too great a burden on and your son has to say no for economic reasons.
Your player doesn't have to live like a king while at college, most of the time they are rarely home. And FWIW, consider that there are some places to live cheaper than others. In Clemson, south carolina, the housing is ridiculously cheaper than would be to live in Atlanta, GA. I feel all of this should go into the consideration and never look down at an opportunity because it may be considered by some as "not as prestigious".
Does it matter where you attend to get drafted, yes it does if you are considering a big bonus to help pay off debt 9which some consider). Other than that, no. My son plays with players that were drafted out of many differnt type of programs and they are doing well, not sure if the will make it to the MLB level, but you would be surprised they all come from everywhere, JUCO, big D1 programs, small D2 programs, etc. But there is a strong correlation between those that attended the upper level D1 programs (or directly out of HS) and move quicker. Price, Posey, Weiters, Colvin just some good examples. Not only is it due to talent, but playing for programs with must win attitudes that makes them winners. JMO.
Do your pre recruiting homework to see where your family will fit as far as what you can actually spend on tuition. Remember, in this day and age, most people don't know if their job will be there the next day. Things have changed, people have lost on what used to be for their children's education, 401K's, investments, declining home values, good jobs, etc. and it is not going to get better real soon.
In my opinion it should go like this, best education for schoalship (baseball and academic) offered, your financial situation, location then baseball.
To answer a question asked, there is no legal commitment without any baseball dollars, but as coaches are using more and more creative ideas to allow students a spot on their roster, I wouldn't worry too much about it not being baseball money.
What will you get in return for what you pay for an expensive private school should be another consideration. Spending lots of money for, as an example, a Duke degree is well worth the opportunities handed to you later on. So if your scholarship offer is not as good at such schools, you will have a faster opportunity to pay back debt. Consider where you will live after you graduate, here in FL if you are a Nole or a Gator, great job opportunities are boundless. Most can't work, go to school and play ball at the same time. Understand that tax laws affect you according to where you reside.
Consider if it's a winning program or a losing program. IMO, a D2 with an good record is far more pleasant experience than a smaller struggling D1 program. That's a big consideration because baseball IS part of the experience. Do what is right for you as well as your player. I admire the parent that sits down with their player before it all begins, and tells them what they can and can't afford. This avoids disappointment later on when the small offer comes in and you know it will be too great a burden on and your son has to say no for economic reasons.
Your player doesn't have to live like a king while at college, most of the time they are rarely home. And FWIW, consider that there are some places to live cheaper than others. In Clemson, south carolina, the housing is ridiculously cheaper than would be to live in Atlanta, GA. I feel all of this should go into the consideration and never look down at an opportunity because it may be considered by some as "not as prestigious".
Does it matter where you attend to get drafted, yes it does if you are considering a big bonus to help pay off debt 9which some consider). Other than that, no. My son plays with players that were drafted out of many differnt type of programs and they are doing well, not sure if the will make it to the MLB level, but you would be surprised they all come from everywhere, JUCO, big D1 programs, small D2 programs, etc. But there is a strong correlation between those that attended the upper level D1 programs (or directly out of HS) and move quicker. Price, Posey, Weiters, Colvin just some good examples. Not only is it due to talent, but playing for programs with must win attitudes that makes them winners. JMO.
Do your pre recruiting homework to see where your family will fit as far as what you can actually spend on tuition. Remember, in this day and age, most people don't know if their job will be there the next day. Things have changed, people have lost on what used to be for their children's education, 401K's, investments, declining home values, good jobs, etc. and it is not going to get better real soon.
In my opinion it should go like this, best education for schoalship (baseball and academic) offered, your financial situation, location then baseball.
To answer a question asked, there is no legal commitment without any baseball dollars, but as coaches are using more and more creative ideas to allow students a spot on their roster, I wouldn't worry too much about it not being baseball money.
I have been in business all my life. It is always about the bottom line and cash flow.
To me people are sucked in by the academic BS. I have friends who have never been to college and make better income than those salaries. I am not talking self employed, but working for companies. My one niece has no degree and she works in the computer industry. She earns $200,000 a year and owns 2 condos in downtown Toronto. She is 28 years old.
My youngest daughters ex husband has a 2 year Architectural diploma and works on the Trump tower in TO. He always wanted to get his full degree. His bosses told him not to waste his money. He has the talent and he doesn't need the degree.
He works for one of the top Architectural firms in North America and has won awards for his work.
It is like BB. Those who have the talent will succeed regardless of where they go to school.
To me people are sucked in by the academic BS. I have friends who have never been to college and make better income than those salaries. I am not talking self employed, but working for companies. My one niece has no degree and she works in the computer industry. She earns $200,000 a year and owns 2 condos in downtown Toronto. She is 28 years old.
My youngest daughters ex husband has a 2 year Architectural diploma and works on the Trump tower in TO. He always wanted to get his full degree. His bosses told him not to waste his money. He has the talent and he doesn't need the degree.
He works for one of the top Architectural firms in North America and has won awards for his work.
It is like BB. Those who have the talent will succeed regardless of where they go to school.
Why waste your time and money going to college if you don't care about academics?
Going to college and getting an education in either a subject that will interest you or position yourself to be better equipped to handle the real world is such a privilege.
To think that you can attend a college, not have to pay for the education because baseball is going to pay your way, not care about the academics, and not really being a stud player that is a shoe in for the MLB, is not really realistic advice I think one should be following.
Going to college and getting an education in either a subject that will interest you or position yourself to be better equipped to handle the real world is such a privilege.
To think that you can attend a college, not have to pay for the education because baseball is going to pay your way, not care about the academics, and not really being a stud player that is a shoe in for the MLB, is not really realistic advice I think one should be following.
To get back to the original question, the "good offer" is going to vary by program, most programs will give pitchers the bulk of the baseball money, then comes those players who will be impact players up the middle, then stud players in the infield corners.
The "good offer" will be one which the program demonstrates that they are committed to the player that he will be a valued contributor to the program and not just a utility player or one who will just provide support for scrimmages.
Besides weather a program is fully funded or even if they give bb scholarships, one also needs to take in account what the program has also invested in other players at that point and what they available at that time, which may be difficult to determine.
The "good offer" will be one which the program demonstrates that they are committed to the player that he will be a valued contributor to the program and not just a utility player or one who will just provide support for scrimmages.
Besides weather a program is fully funded or even if they give bb scholarships, one also needs to take in account what the program has also invested in other players at that point and what they available at that time, which may be difficult to determine.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I have been in business all my life. It is always about the bottom line and cash flow.
To me people are sucked in by the academic BS. I have friends who have never been to college and make better income than those salaries. I am not talking self employed, but working for companies. My one niece has no degree and she works in the computer industry. She earns $200,000 a year and owns 2 condos in downtown Toronto. She is 28 years old.
My youngest daughters ex husband has a 2 year Architectural diploma and works on the Trump tower in TO. He always wanted to get his full degree. His bosses told him not to waste his money. He has the talent and he doesn't need the degree.
He works for one of the top Architectural firms in North America and has won awards for his work.
It is like BB. Those who have the talent will succeed regardless of where they go to school.
That's your opinion, did you know that there are employers out there paying HUGE megabucks to baby geeks. Those are the students your kids will have to compete against in this world.
Absolutely one can earn a lot of money without a college education. But when you are hired by a company, yes succcess at what you did may get you the job, but having those degrees could get you get mega bucks more. If education is not so important, why are more and more going back to school, why are more and more getting master degrees, etc. MORE MONEY.
Yeah it's like bb, you may have the talent, but the next year someone comes along who is more talented than you and you lose your job. You always hav to stay on top of your game in anything that you do.
Was wondering, as for all of those jobs your son has been offered that you tell us about, has he accepted any of them? what's the use of talking aobut it if it never happened? Most of son's friends who didn't go onto play bb, not those with coaching position reached the 1000K mark and more many, many years ago. Most have gone back for masters to make even more.
So let's not get into that stuff, again. Please.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
For eg one of my son's teammates who graduated in accounting started with a six figure salary.
I don't know you, but this is not true. You may want to ask the teammate again. Only Managers with 4-8 years of experience in a Big 4 CPA firm and with 5 year degrees make that much.
It is true so believe it or not.
TPM many are going back because they can't get a job with a Bachelor's degree.
My son didn't accept the offers because he followed his fiancée to Wilmington NC until she graduated. He had 3 part time jobs there and ended up selling computers which they offered him full time. They even checked into getting his green card to keep him there. He is young and full of confidence that he will get other great offers.
The best offer told him to come back when they settle what they are doing. They are having a Plantation wedding May 7 2011 in Myrtle Beach. She has a medical degree and did her internship in Wilmington.
He is home now until the wedding as his visa ran out. He has an interview with a major computer company in their marketing division on Monday. He also has an interview with Apple computers coming up.
his fiancée just flew after spending 10 days here at the cottage in the Muskokas in northern Ontario.
The computer job was a great learning experience and gives him some great references.
TPM many are going back because they can't get a job with a Bachelor's degree.
My son didn't accept the offers because he followed his fiancée to Wilmington NC until she graduated. He had 3 part time jobs there and ended up selling computers which they offered him full time. They even checked into getting his green card to keep him there. He is young and full of confidence that he will get other great offers.
The best offer told him to come back when they settle what they are doing. They are having a Plantation wedding May 7 2011 in Myrtle Beach. She has a medical degree and did her internship in Wilmington.
He is home now until the wedding as his visa ran out. He has an interview with a major computer company in their marketing division on Monday. He also has an interview with Apple computers coming up.
his fiancée just flew after spending 10 days here at the cottage in the Muskokas in northern Ontario.
The computer job was a great learning experience and gives him some great references.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
It is true so believe it or not.
TPM many are going back because they can't get a job with a Bachelor's degree.
My son didn't accept the offers because he followed his fiancée to Wilmington NC until she graduated. He had 3 part time jobs there and ended up selling computers which they offered him full time. They even checked into getting his green card to keep him there. He is young and full of confidence that he will get other great offers.
The best offer told him to come back when they settle what they are doing. They are having a Plantation wedding May 7 2011 in Myrtle Beach. She has a medical degree and did her internship in Wilmington.
He is home now until the wedding as his visa ran out. He has an interview with a major computer company in their marketing division on Monday. He also has an interview with Apple computers coming up.
his fiancée just flew after spending 10 days here at the cottage in the Muskokas in northern Ontario.
The computer job was a great learning experience and gives him some great references.
BHD,
You don't have to give us details about your son's fiance. Or is that to impress?
BTW, how can one work without a green card? If he couldn't accept those offers, why even mention them?
You got to have more than just an undergraduate degree in accouinting to make that type of money, or know someone, unless you are paid commission. Did you see his tax return or paycheck?
TPM you asked and I explained why. Let me help you out.
He had an extended work permit for 1 year after graduating. The company that made him the offer after 5 interviews said the visa would allow him to do their 8 month training in Kansas. They said they would get him a green card as he was planning to marry an American girl. He had to guarantee that he would not leave the company for at least 3 years. If he did he would have to pay back part of the money which was in the neighborhood of 80 thousand dollars.
he and his fiancée talked it over and decided against it.
He informed them and they said the door was open if they decided what they were doing and he was still interested.
He had an extended work permit for 1 year after graduating. The company that made him the offer after 5 interviews said the visa would allow him to do their 8 month training in Kansas. They said they would get him a green card as he was planning to marry an American girl. He had to guarantee that he would not leave the company for at least 3 years. If he did he would have to pay back part of the money which was in the neighborhood of 80 thousand dollars.
he and his fiancée talked it over and decided against it.
He informed them and they said the door was open if they decided what they were doing and he was still interested.
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.
That is what so great about you, you take a one in a thousand situation of a student who has a company paying for his Masters and coming out of school with a six figure salary as the norm!
That is like saying that you don't need to go to college to be a Multi-Billionaire, look at what Bill Gates did!
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.
What company is this?
Dis I say it was the norm ? Did I not say he was a brilliant student ? Top in the school >
It is quite normal for companies to pay for post grad education. My son had 2 companies offer to pay for any post grad courses. One was the catering company he worked for for 3 years and the other was one that made him an offer in the financial sector.
Sultan LOL.
It is quite normal for companies to pay for post grad education. My son had 2 companies offer to pay for any post grad courses. One was the catering company he worked for for 3 years and the other was one that made him an offer in the financial sector.
Sultan LOL.
quote:Posted August 14, 2010 06:10 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.
That is what so great about you, you take a one in a thousand situation of a student who has a company paying for his Masters and coming out of school with a six figure salary as the norm!
That is like saying that you don't need to go to college to be a Multi-Billionaire, look at what Bill Gates did!
Still trying to figure out what I like about you !!
quote:Originally posted by Homerun04:quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Oh no bonus but he was a brilliant accounting student and the company paid for him to attend College of Charleston for his Masters.
That is what so great about you, you take a one in a thousand situation of a student who has a company paying for his Masters and coming out of school with a six figure salary as the norm!
That is like saying that you don't need to go to college to be a Multi-Billionaire, look at what Bill Gates did!
I find that pretty amazing about him too. That's what gets me going. Was he on the baseball team, if not that changes things too and not revelant to this topic.
Heard the story about the job offers as well several times, but not the second part about paying back if you left, that changes everything.
BHD seems to leave out some important parts of each situation and seems to change directions of some really great topics with good advice given by others.
TPM that is hilarious ! You who say I give too much detail .
Teammate means he was on the team.
Teammate means he was on the team.