What is it to choke?

I don't think a team that gets to the biggest game can be called a choker. When two good teams play a close game anything can happen.

What happened is the Giants rose to the occasion more than the Patriots. I could name four key plays. But I'll go with one play versus another. If Welker makes the tough catch that hit his hands the Patriots have a first down and keep driving. Maybe the score a TD and put the game out of reach. Welker has made the catch many times. On the flip side Manningham made his difficult catch. It got the Giants our of a deep whole. It was a lot of yardage of their last drive.

The way the ball bounces can affect a game. Those two points make for strange bounces. If the Patriots recover the fumble in the 4th period chances are the game is over there. An alert Giants lineman found the ball.

It was two good teams who made some mistakes here and there because they played tough football against each other. In the end the Giants got the better end of the score.

I liked Gronkowski's class in the post game interview. He was asked if he was in pain and how much did it affect his game. It was obvious be couldn't push off or jump. He response was, "I was out there the entire game going 100%. I didn't feel any pain." (Wait until the pain killers wear off!)

Choking is when a person comes so unglued they can't perform. I didn't see any of that tonight. I only saw players outperform other players on given plays.

I agree, I don't think there was any choking on that field tonight. A very entertaining game played by two very good teams who both made some great plays. Loved the catch by Manningham!

BTW, I thought the halftime show was excellent!

Julie

The Giants made a couple of big plays at the right time. Otherwise this game goes the other way. To me the sign of a choke is a rash of mental errors, and I didn't see that kind of pattern tonight.

A really enjoyable game to watch.

I agree with all of you that it wasn't a choke tonight - it was just a good game where the Patriots lost.

So what are some examples of choking by a team or is it an individual things - Scott Norwood and the Bills?

It could have become a choke with the way the Patriots started. There was a huge absence of situational awareness for a bit of time. However, it didn't end up that way.

The Patriots didn't choke. The Giants were the better team. sure they were picked as underdogs by Vegas because the money was on Brady but actually, many picked the Giants as the favorite.

This game was no upset. Two QB's of equal greatness squared off tonight and both teams were playing well right to this game. In the end, the Giants made the clutch plays in the end where the Patriots fell short. That's pretty much it.

Manning and Brady have had their share of success to be labeled as chokers.

Sure a couple of key throws by Brady were off the mark and a couple of dropped balls in key situations happened but the Giants pass rush and defense had much to do with that.

Although it does seem the Giants have the Pats number these days and seem to be the cause of ending long winning streaks they have.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I agree with all of you that it wasn't a choke tonight - it was just a good game where the Patriots lost.

So what are some examples of choking by a team or is it an individual things - Scott Norwood and the Bills?

I never liked Scott Norwood's miss being called a choke. It was a 47 yard attempt. It was makable. Hitting it is what makes heroes of mortals. But it was not a chip shot.

That attempt was twenty years ago when 47 yard attempts were not made with the regularity they are these days. Back then anything over 45 yards was looked at like over 50 yards today.

Choking is a term invented by fans and the media most of whom couldn't begin to do the things these athletes do on a field.

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:


BTW, I thought the halftime show was excellent!

Julie

Me, too. I saw Madonna live a few times. I don't know if my old brain could handle last night's stage for a whole concert. It was amazing. How did she keep the set list secret with so many people involved?

I thought the game was good, too. Very physical-two teams really slugging it out. zomby, you're rich today if you took that under.

That pass to Welker was a lot harder to catch than it looked. Just to get around to it and get his hands where they have to be shows great skill.

Wes Welker is an "old school" type of player and I admire him. You could tell he cried after the game and of course, he felt he had horribly let his team down.

Athletes risk failure every time they compete. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes it eats you. Those who are afraid of failure will never understand what it takes to succeed. In my way of thinking, the Patriots probably do not represent the AFC in the Superbowl this year without the services of one Wes Welker. He might be beating himself up today and for the next offseason but he could be on my team any day. No way is he a choker imho.

Chokers are guys who talk a good game and then fail to produce. Muhamad Ali talked a good game but he backed it up. Nobody talks a good game better than the coach of the NY Jets and some of his players. If you want to look for chokers, that is a good place to look imho.

quote:

Originally posted by Three Bagger:
Choking is a term invented by fans and the media most of whom couldn't begin to do the things these athletes do on a field.

I totally disagree. Choking is a mindset brought on when pressure is on the line and it doesn't have to necessarily be on the field of play where athletes are of special skills. It can simply be in a bowling league as an anchor man needing to fill the 10th frame but tightens up when his shot is needed or any other event or activity when someone is at his/her best until the stakes are raised.

Many of us have lost a big game at the high school or college level in some sport. It wasn't the ultimate game at the highest level. BUt it was ultimate to us. Dan Wetzel of Yahoo Sports wrote a great article placing the reader in Brady's post game locker room chair. While reading it I could feel the pain. I thought back to a couple of losses.

Tom Brady in postgame daze of disappointment

Now that the bad news is over, the good news is the Patriots could be better the next two years. Brady has at least two more years of greatness in him. Overall the team is young. They need a couple of additions on defense. A key off season responsibility is giving Welker enough money to stay. The Patriots aren't known for big contracts. Brady and Wilfolk just got big contracts.

I actually enjoyed the game, lots of complaints at work today it was boring, but they also think that 0-0 score in the 8th in a baseball game is boring also.

I have been a Wes Welker fan since he was a Dolphin, he's no doubt beating himself up today, but he's a winner in my book too.

Madonna, at 53, she's is still amazing, I didn't realize that she was going into last night's performance with a serious injury to her nose (they thought it was broken) as well as a pulled groin muscle. Think about it, the woman in her own right is an athlete (performer), and most athletes don't play when they are hurt.

Regardless, it was a good way to end the season that started off a bit shaky.

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Choke with a cherry on top!



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Jeez, I thought it was a great game.

Both QB's gave virtuoso performances. Manning set a Super Bowl record by completing his first ten passes, and later in the game Brady set one with something like 17 straight completions.

Choke? No way. The game turned on the bounce of two fumbles, and a third fumble that New England recovered but was nullified by 12 men on the field.

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"...as well as a pulled groin muscle."

Groin pull? Madonna? She has a groin? You sure wouldn't know from watching her act all of these years. I've been watching her from the depths forever...like a sturgeon!



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I agree with my friend Ohhh Robbb! Manningham's catch was great...and crucial, but I was even more impressed with Manning's toss.



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The GENERAL has spoken

Wes dropped catch in the 4th Qtr was huge.

0-0 ball game in 8th inning is exciting,
and more so if a no-no or perfect.

I'd vote for dumping Super Bowl halftime
entertainment.

Eli Manning is at Disney World
Tom Brady would rather lose at Super Bowl than not be there!

Two great QB's.

Best part about the Super Bowl, next is the beginning of baseball season!

quote:

I'd vote for dumping Super Bowl halftime
entertainment.

That was entertainment?

I think we all agree that the Super Bowl was a great game and the Patriots didn't choke. So let me throw this at you - Back in the 80's when the Cleveland Browns lost to the Denver Broncos in the playoffs. Were either game a choke by the Browns or would you say that both games together would be a choke?

Reason I'm asking all this and starting this topic is there doesn't seem to be a consistent definition of choke. On facebook some people I know were saying Brady choked and I really don't think he did. So it got me thinking - what is it to choke?

On one hand I can see what someone earlier said its a term coined by journalists and those who have never been there to be under that pressure. But I also agree with the other person who said that they had to perform in a pressure situation but didn't do it. I realize there won't be a consesus achieved to say it is ....... but I think it's cool to see what everyone thinks that it might be.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:
The GENERAL has spoken


Best part about the Super Bowl, next is the beginning of baseball season!

Nope....Daytona!

TO me choking is when a player seizes up and can't play to his abilities. You also have to factor in the competition. I look at Brady's pass to Welker and see a situation where he didn't come up clutch. He's done it before. Yet you could argue he got the ball to Welker's hands even though it was on the back side. If you throw that pass to Welker again chances are he catches it. Welker didn't come up clutch. Welker is dying inside. He believes he should have caught the ball. I don't see chokers. I see excellent players who didn't come up clutch.

Also, if you get a wide field angle of the 38 yard catch by the Giants, Patrick Chung broke the wrong way on his first two steps. There was nothing occurring up the middle of the field. Had Chung broke properly from the start he would have either batted down the pass or possibly picked it off. But people who don't know the game and coverages don't realize Chung was out of position. To Chung's defense he's more a hitter than a coverage guy.

The closest I've seen to choking on the football field was Donovan McNabb throwing up in the huddle with the game on the line. He lost his nerve and seized up on the field. Bill Russell used to throw up before big basketball games. But not during competition.

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"I'd vote for dumping Super Bowl halftime
entertainment."

I'm with you on that Bear. How 'bout having the finals for the Punt, Pass, & Kick competition at halftime? I'd watch...and enjoy it!



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It's SI's fault the Patriots lost.

This didn't get much play. From bostonherald.com:

He (Brady) plays the last 21 minutes with an injury that led coaches to tell Brian Hoyer to get ready

Surely we all know what "Choking" is. I don't think I'm the only person who has ever experienced it. Sometimes the only person who knows you choked is you.

I once gave up walk off homers in both ends of a doubleheader. I never thought of it as choking. I certainly thought I $ucked that day.