What now? Lost summer

quote:

Originally posted by LTDad:
.....your implying that one can determine how much sports related experience a doctor has based on whether the doctor "looks like" a nerd or an athlete.

IMHO many times you can and if your "gut" has an issue, deal with it.

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I got a recommendation from a collegiate athlete's dad to have my son's MRI reviewed a facility that's the sports orthopedic specialists for several college sports programs in the area.

My son went to his college orthopedic surgeon.I can not tell you what an awesome man he is.He understands athletes, and their drive to excel.As soon as we got the MRI that showed a tear, he got him into surgery two days later.My son had been in considerable pain.Day after surgery on a stationary bike.Two days later off all pain medications.Now 6 weeks post op PAIN FREE.

RJM,
You can have the MRI done and send it to anyone you would like for a second opinion. May I suggest the Surgical Center in NY, they have a great specialist for knees and I know they read MRIs for opinions.
The shoulder guy did surgery on son but I do know of another webster here whose son had surgery and they sent it off to him and I beleive someone else here as well to make sure teh diagnosis was correct.

I understand what you meant by the comment too, you want to have a doctor that specializes in sports med, and lives what he practices, they understand what an athelete has to go through for rehab ( recovery is all in the rehab) they write the rehab script.

There is a differnce between a regular knee and an athlete's knee.

FWIW, the surgeon who shaved down the bone in son's shoulder causing an issue rides his bicycle to work everyday, when son heard that he felt the doctor "understood" more about what being an athelete is rather than someone who had no clue and he more felt comfortable with that knowledge.

The best doctors are the ones that don't make diagnosis' until after an MRI, and then they will usually tell you what it appears to be, until they go in and look themselves. The best ones also know that time and just rehab only is not on an athelete's side.

I definitely think that you have to go with the MRI. It is the least invasive and it will tell you flat out what the problem is. THEN, you can make some decisions.

As to the characteristics of the Doctor, we had a vision issue with one of the boys; the best thing we ever did was find an opthamaloigist that specialized in athletes. Our previous Opthamalogist was "fine" in the sense that he was competent, but the specialist had a better appreciation of the greater demands of their sport.

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I believe you are a trainer.And no disrespect but nobody can diagnose a tear without an MRI.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you. But the statement that basically said MRI is the ONLY way to do it is flat-out wrong. Looking at MRI.. if any one of us were to go get an MRI of our back, something like 30% would have something that would show up as being wrong with our back. We could be completely pain-free, but if you believe the MRI then you would develop a rehab plan for what it shows. Even though what it shows may not be a source of pain.

Yes, when you have a question about an ACL, MCL, labrum, etc you're most likely going to need an MRI to rule out or confirm the functional examination. But if we were to send a patient to get an MRI anytime he thinks he may have torn something, insurance would put an end to it very quickly due to expense.

I would propose that, for diagnosis, there is not much difference in an orthopedic surgeon vs an orthopedic surgeon who has a sub-specialty practice in sports medicine when it comes to an MCL.
Each can diagnose the condition in the knee. Neither, other than length of practice and quality of the MD, necessarily has greater expertise in diagnosing the knee condition based on the existence of the Sports Medicine sub-specialty.
The Sports Medicine orthopedist probably will have more current functional knowledge as to the best and most comprehensive method of treatment and rehab that is sports specific.
As it relates to the MRI, orthopedists have diagnosed MCL injuries for years before the advent of the MRI. I would tend to agree with Bulldog19 that the MRI here is needed to determine if there is ACL involvement.
The history of the knee collapsing without a lateral blow does not make one think MCL. It makes one think ACL.
Whether the doctor is a nerd or not, the limited information in the post makes sense if this is only an MCL issue.
Even if the information from the doctor perceived as a nerd is either incomplete or inaccurate in some medical way, haste and putting showcasing and the importance of the next few months/college baseball in such a seemingly, to my reading at least, critical aspect of the care, treatment and choice of doctors is not the way I would do it for our son.
Here is a comment from the website of one of very top Sports Medicine orthopedic facilities in the US concerning potential risks for MCL issues:

"If the torn ligament does not heal sufficiently, you may experience instability in the joint, and you will be more susceptible to re-injury."

Those thoughts, to me at least, warrant patience, persistence, the correct diagnosis, and following the medical advice of the best quality to avoid any future repercussions. A highly motivated athlete is going to want to get back and play as quickly as possible. He needs someone to help him be disciplined and look out for his interests in getting back to being 100% physically ready to play and participate. He needs someone to be a balance for his genuine desire to be on the field when he is not ready or fully, medically cleared.
Also, any MRI is going to be read by a radiologist. They will also provide a hard copy report of that MRI. It would prudent to obtain a copy of the radiologists report. That will help in understanding what might then be offered by a non-nerd MD or Sports Medicine doctor.

I would definitely agree a sports doctor and athetic therapist is the best route. My son has had nothing but positive experiences with the athletic therapists he has been exposed to; often their advice has been counter to conventional thought. He was fortunate an apparent acl tear was less serious, still a 6 week rehab, but we are all very thankful how it turned out.

On a secondaty note I just want to congratulate S Abrams on his son, a great kid of whom he should be (and is I'm sure) very proud. Good luck Zach. I'm sure all who know you will be pulling for you at GP.

quote:
I believe you are a trainer.And no disrespect but nobody can diagnose a tear without an MRI.



I'm not completely disagreeing with you. But the statement that basically said MRI is the ONLY way to do it is flat-out wrong. Looking at MRI.. if any one of us were to go get an MRI of our back, something like 30% would have something that would show up as being wrong with our back. We could be completely pain-free, but if you believe the MRI then you would develop a rehab plan for what it shows. Even though what it shows may not be a source of pain.

Yes, when you have a question about an ACL, MCL, labrum, etc you're most likely going to need an MRI to rule out or confirm the functional examination. But if we were to send a patient to get an MRI anytime he thinks he may have torn something, insurance would put an end to it very quickly due to expense.[/quote]


I thought this thread was about a MCL.I am confused.

For what it's worth, my son had an MRI that showed that his PCL was torn and his ACL was in good shape, but both the sports medicine doctor and rehab therapist were sure that it was the ACL, but the surgeon was positive it was the PCL. He went into surgery and the surgeon was prepared for either. Turned out the ACL was completely severed and the PCL had no damage.
When we talked to the surgeon before surgery and after he explained that the MRI's are correct about 85% of the time, but until they go in, they never know for sure.

I sent a similiar message to RJM in a PM but I wanted to let others know of the opportunities also.

My son's team has played in several tournaments this summer in NJ, MD, VA and Georgia. Their is a 2010 pitcher on the team who was not committed due to injury last summer. The kid has been lights out all summer and has attracted a lot of attention at each tournament. While in Georgia last week he committed to one of the schools who made a very nice offer.

Also after one game in Georgia one scout asked a couple other 2010 grads if they were committed anywhere.

My point is that there definitely are last minute opportunities/spots available for players in RJM Jr. situation. Anybody in this situation should get healthy and be ready for the fall and next summer because it ain't over until the school bell rings in August or September.

Just to reiterate a couple points that have previously been made: MCL tears aren't nearly as bad as they sound. I played football with two guys who had MCL tears mid season, and after 3 weeks of rest, played the remainder of the season w/ a brace. I tore ACL/MCL in late Nov. of Sr. yr of HS. Sports orthopedic surgeon perfomed reconstruction, and after very aggressive rehab, pitched again in mid March.
In my experience rehab philosophies differ greatly between orthos who deal primarily w/ athletes and those surgeons whose majority clientele are non-athletes. The first Dr. I saw told me 6-9 mth rehab (no baseball my sr. season). The second Dr. said < 4 months of hyper aggressive rehab then back on the field. He actually had me begin rehab program the day after surgery, while still in the hospital. This took place 12 years ago, so I can only imagine the advances that have been made to the surgical/rehab process since then.

Regarding the recruiting hurdles that come from missing showcase season, I've coached several players who attended 0 showcases in their jr. summer/sr. fall and had recieved no offers as of March of sr. season. I explained that the chances of getting scholarship money from a D1 school were slim at best, as most, if not all, money has been allocated. Sure enough, a mid-major D1 school came calling and made an offer (50% scholly was freed up for some reason). So, though rare to have D1 opportunities late in a sr. season, it does happen, perhaps more than I realized.

RJM

I think your from the Phila area, the Rothman Institute has a good rep, they have sports med dept and are assoc. with Jefferson Hosp.

Rothman is one of the best. They are the specialists for several of the college sports programs in the area. He has an appointment at Rothman on Tuesday.

The bad news is in. Torn PCL. Torn MCL. My son has missed the summer showcase season. He will be looked at again the end of September to start rehab IF he doesn't need surgery. The doctor said if he's cleared in the fall be prepared to play through the pain. If he is cleared to workout that's after four months of no BP and no sprints. It will take two or three months to get his knee and game back in order. The fall showcase season will be over. If he needs surgery that's a six to eight month recovery. He could miss his senior year of baseball.

The plan was to use baseball to get into the best academic situation. He was going to showcase in front of some of the top academic institutions in the country. None of these schools will be interested in him after not seeing him play. He doesn't have the grades to get in without baseball.

There will not be a plan to dumb down academics in order to play baseball. I won't allow it. We're not talking about a pro future. We're taking about the best education to be ready for the real world.

Chances are college ball is out the window unless he can impress someone last minute next summer and it's the right academic fit. I'm not counting on it. I have a realistic assessment of my son. He's not the jaw dropping stud colleges drool over. He's an excellent high school player like thousands of other kids in the country. The only real hope is make the right academic choice and take the long shot of walking on.

I'm sorry to hear this prognosis RJM. Terrible time (as if there is ever a good time) for him to get hurt.

Best of luck to him on his rehab...

08

So sorry to learn about this RJM. I hope the rehab goes well. I'm hoping something will work out for him.

With the way you have described your son in the classroom, the type of school he attends and the classes he is taking, combined with your estimate of him being a mid-level DI to high level DIII player, it seems to me his glass is still pretty full at the high academic/top baseball DIII level.
I wish your son the very, very best. The next few months can be pretty taxing mentally both because of the injury issue/rehab and his being a senior. Hopefully, with your support and the support of those around him and who care for him he can see he does have options and see the bright side. Would not be surprised if he needs that type of support, and maybe more than he lets others know.
Sure hope he gets through everything and beginning next Spring realizes he has choices and good ones he can make.

I was hoping for a better outcome ...

It doesn't have to be the end of college baseball for him. See what infielddad says.

Good Luck!

Sorry to hear the news.All the best for your son. I hope it works out for him.I honestly , openly hope that you are still holding out some sort of hope, because your son needs that during rehab.

Going through rehab, surgery, etc is a lot of work.Even if he doesn't play baseball.My son is recovering from surgery this summer.It is tons of work and dedication to go through.

Sounds like the education is a top priority. Sounds like you feel that anything less of a 4 year school would not be considered.That is your decision.Although at the end of 4 years , nobody cares where you started from.Nobody will look to see if you went to a Junior college.

Kids graduate from top academic schools after spending time at a Junior college.I got My RN nursing license from a 2 year college.I now have my BN.

I respect your dedication to your sons education, and it is your families business.

I hope the best, and if a walk on ends up being his only option(I doubt it) but if it is then best of luck with that. FAN

RJM.

I can imagine this is a difficult time for your family, you and your son.

I can only give you two pieces of advice. One comes from my mother who survived a life threatening disease when she had three young kids. She has always told me that “sometimes life just does not go the way you planned it and when it doesn’t you have to rely on your faith, family and sometimes you just have to get up, grab yourself by the a$$, move forward a take it one step at a time.”

I guess I don’t understand the JC issues. Out here in the West JC baseball is played at a high level and there is a clear path to high academic schools for those kids who excel in the classroom. I have a degree from one of the top engineering schools in the country and nowhere does it say “went to JC for 2 years and then…” My son has Ivy level academics and if he was going through the same thing (and wanted to play baseball) then this is the way we would go.

Best of luck to you and your boy.

My son was accepted into a very good engineering school but didn't get a chance to go to any of their baseball camps. He wasn't accepted at his choice of UC schools but then his top UC choice offered to get him into the school but wouldn't offer a guaranteed roster spot.

He's taken the JC route and we've insisted that he go to a JC with a good academic track record and so far it has been fine from an academic standpoint and allowed him to work his way into college at a pace he can handle.

Best way I can think to both generalize and empathize with the JC issue is to say it's a "coastal" difference. Just from my perspective reading this board, it is clear that JC is very common, practical and part of the west coast academic culture. It is very different on the east coast. While east coast JC is "an option" it is not as readily part of our main stream academic structure.

RJM: I sympathize for you. Hardest part as a parent is to spend years with a kid helping him achieve dreams and this is a bummer of a roadblock. The only upside, I guess, is that in one year you'll be in a completely different place.

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While east coast JC is "an option" it is not as readily part of our main stream academic structure.

Since it's been said, it's true. The schools my son was looking at typically don't take JuCo transfers. So if he can't perform in time to impress them this winter (he would need baseball to get accepted), there has to be a Plan B for the next level academically.

We can live with him not attending an elite academic college. There are plenty of good colleges at the next level. The issue would be if he can play baseball at a lot of them. I just don't want him at Whatsamatta U just so he can play baseball.

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I just don't want him at Whatsamatta U just so he can play baseball.

Where is that located? IS that a D1?

Just messing with you!!!> Best of luck.

RJM : From your previous posts I know your son would truly like to attend a top notch school - ie, Ivys. My suggestion earlier of a post-graduate year can accomplish that.
My son has a friend, although a different situation entirely, what he did could work for your son as well. His boy was only receiving interest from some top academic d3 schools, but really wanted to attend an Ivy. He was young for his age and probably not physically developed, so he attended a post-graduate year at a prep school, and in effect was able to re-do his rising senior summer again. He also worked on and got his grades up, while putting about 3-5 mph's on his fastball to be throwing in the upper 80's. He was already a "pitcher" before and the 2nd time around he did get the attention of several Ivy League schools. This fall he is attending one of them. It could work the same way for your boy, by letting him "re-do" his rising senior summer to make up for everything he is missing now, as well as working on getting his test scores up. Another advantage of going this route is the 5 year clock does not start ticking. It is like an extra year of high school.
Good luck to you and your son and I hope everything works out. Keep him positive and it will!

Bird- where did he attend his PG year? Some of the costs are outrageous. Anyone know any reasonable alternatives?

Whatsamatta U is in this region.


RJM, I wish the best for your son. Starry Night (a new poster) recently posted something in the GF about 'never give up'. You may have already read it. There's always hope to be found. Other players have gotten through these things (and worse) and still found their feet back inside the cleats and in a happy place. I wish him well as he goes through the college process.

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Originally posted by fanofgame:

quote:

I just don't want him at Whatsamatta U just so he can play baseball.

Where is that located? IS that a D1?

It's Frostbite Falls, Minnesota. Bullwinkle played football at Whatsamatta U.

RJM,

I'm sorry to hear about your son. Something tells me that this is just a bump in the road for him, and he's going to be just fine in the long run. Hopefully when September rolls around he'll be ready to get back on the diamond! Good luck, I wish him the best!

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Originally posted by gamefan:
Bird- where did he attend his PG year? Some of the costs are outrageous. Anyone know any reasonable alternatives?

Hun School in Princeton. I know the cost was somewhere in the 25K range. A bit less than 1/2 an Ivy cost, but still pretty significant when it is looked upon as an extra year in HS. I am pretty sure they received some financial aid as well.

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Hun School in Princeton. I know the cost was somewhere in the 25K range. A bit less than 1/2 an Ivy cost, but still pretty significant when it is looked upon as an extra year in HS.

WOW!!!!!!!