What to do

I'd like to second that!
GREAT thoughts!

Alot of good advice given out on this thread.

I would just like to add to the work ethic part.

I would be the first to admit (second if my son would admit it) that his work ethic in baseball was not the best. Did not mean he was lazy, or did not want it any less. Just meant at the level he was at and where he fit in on the team he was comfortable with the amount of work he put in. All that changed in college, comfortable can no longer be used. More on that in a moment.

On the plus side, something that's equally as important is his work ethic in the classroom was outstanding. He had that desire to be successful, to be the best. Something that took a truly hard work ethic.

Now back to the baseball work ethic.

Being a lefty, having a little talent (and good grades) enabled him to play at the next level.
What the lack of work ethic did prevent him from doing was eat up alot of innings as a freshman (to this point anyway). When he stepped on the field in the Fall, the workouts were something he was not prepared for. All the running, the weight lifting, even the number of bullpens and throwing were things he was not physically and mentally prepared for out of high school.

He now knows first hand how hard you must work just to get to the next level, and how much harder you must work to get playing time.

Work ethic never ends. It is constant. If you do not work your hardest, there is always gonna be someone working harder who will take away your at bat, or your inning on the mound or outfield.

Remember, you have to want it more than the next guy, not just as much, but more. Never be comfortable!

t-g-u-f ...

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Remember, you have to want it more than the next guy, not just as much, but more. Never be comfortable!

Great comment ... would make a good 'signature' here.

ww

quote:

Originally posted by theygrowupfast:
Alot of good advice given out on this thread.

I would just like to add to the work ethic part.

I would be the first to admit (second if my son would admit it) that his work ethic in baseball was not the best. Did not mean he was lazy, or did not want it any less. Just meant at the level he was at and where he fit in on the team he was comfortable with the amount of work he put in. All that changed in college, comfortable can no longer be used. More on that in a moment.

On the plus side, something that's equally as important is his work ethic in the classroom was outstanding. He had that desire to be successful, to be the best. Something that took a truly hard work ethic.

I would state the same for mine as well. While in HS, he probably didn't work as hard in the gym as he could have but that all changed as he became more focused in college. I wouldn't worry too much about not working as hard as they should if ther eis the talent a nd the player is projectible in HS, IMO, it's more important to focus in the classroom. That can open more doors than looking like a stud muffin, they can take care of that when they get to school.

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
Oprwiz,

Hang in there, don't(I repeat don't) talk to the coach but continue to have your son play AAU ball. That is where he will best be able to be seen by the right people.

This is your first post, so try not to be put off by any negative comments here and concentrate on the ones that are helpful. This website is filled with threads where newcomers get solid advice mixed in with too many insults. But I can tell you from plenty of experience that if your gut tells you that your son is getting the shaft, he probably is.

Politics run amuck at the H.S. level and too many coaches play favorites with little regard to the final score. The idea that H.S. coaches only care about putting the best players on the field so his team has the best chance of winning is a comical one to all of us parents who have seen H.S. politics in full bloom.

I'm not saying that coaches who play sons or sons of key volunteers don't care about winning. I'm just saying that they coach to win within the parameters of playing the less talented kid or kids and will accept whatever negatives come from playing these kids.


Good Luck to you and your son!

I read this post and was going to let it go but the more I thought about it the more it ticks me off and insults me.

I am sorry that your son(s?) got caught up in the whole political game of high school baseball. Yes I am, as a high school coach, admitting that it exists and it does hurt some kids but I really object to the way you paint a broad picture that most high school coaches as playing politics. I want you to prove that the majority of coaches in Arizona, Wyoming, Arkansas, North Dakota, Florida or any other state do this. In fact I want you to prove to me that most coaches in New Jersey play politics since that is where you live.

I bet you can't do it because your exposure to high school baseball is pretty limited. I have no idea how many sons you have had to play high school baseball. But I can guarantee you that if every single one of your sons played at a different school it doesn't mean you know that

quote:

they coach to win within the parameters of playing the less talented kid or kids and will accept whatever negatives come from playing these kids.

this statement is irresponsible and uninformed.

You are pretty much saying that I play politics since I am one of the "too many coaches play favorites". You have never seen me coach or my team play. I can guarantee you that I do not play favorites and I never will.

I will not ever owe any parent anything. Only thing I owe is to give each player a fair chance to perform in practice and get better each and every day. I do that and I do that fairly well.

When you want to make statments like this you better leave the big paintbrush at the house because you can't prove what you said. Apprantly you feel your son got the shaft but we only have your side to hear. While it would be nice to hear the other side from the coach I would rather see your son in action before I determined whether he got the shaft or not. If I felt your son had talent, great attitude and work ethic but didn't play then the coach has a problem. But if he is not that talented or has an attitude problem or doesn't work hard then the coach is right and you are just bitter.

Maybe I could just use a big paint brush and say that you are the reason why every coach is a problem and make coaching difficult but that would be wrong because I do have some great parents to work with.

coach2709,

Please do not take anything I say in my post as a direct attack on you or you character. I said "too many coaches", you translated that into "you are pretty much saying that I play politics". With a leap like that, you should be in a Nike commercial.

You also translated "too many coaches" to mean "most H.S. coaches". Please do not misinterpret what I said. I honestly don't know what percentage of coaches play politics. I just think that too many of them do.

What I would like to know from you is why my post bothered you but coach Mays post didn't. He painted in broader strokes than I did but you had nothing to say about that. In fact, his post supports my position on this. Coach May said and I quote "If you have not been through some sort of bs just keep playing because sooner or later you will. Some have to face it earlier and more often. Some face it later in their career. Its all part of the game and its part of life. Its never perfect and its never completely fair."

Coach Mays quote is for me, a very honest observation about people and coaches. Politics happens, everywhere.

As for me personally, my son did not lose playing time to politics. He was a three year starter and the best player while he was there. He didn't lose an inning to politics. He was the first player in a long time to go D1 at the school. But I watched many other players and parents get hurt by the revolting and blatant politics carried out by the head coach. He took what should have been a quality experience for all and turned it into a gut wrenching, intolerable experience. It was just as hard for me to watch the politics as it was for anyone else.

I also saw other local schools with politics problems. I knew plenty of the kids on other teams and their parents. From perochial schools to tiny public schools I heard and saw H.S. coaches do things I never thought I would see or hear on a ball field.

My son spent quite a bit of time on the AAU circuit before starting college and I heard many similar stories from parents far and wide. Seriously, I could write a book.

So, coach2709, I am glad that you are a coach of good character who keeps politics out of your program. But don't get mad at me because too many of your fellow coaches don't. I hope your example influences other coaches to stay away from the politics.

Dear old Dad

Thank you for your response and I owe you an apology. I was in a pretty ticked off mood last night over some stuff that I really don't have any control over and it means a huge change for me. I guess I am not handling it too well and I just looked for something.

After looking at what you posted with a cooler head today I can see where you did not paint with a broad brush like I said you did.

I guess I didn't react to Coach May's post the same way because I really respect him and didn't go looking for something. I hope you realize I do agree that there is politics in sports and life. It also goes back a couple of weeks when there was the whole coaches vs. parents debacle.

Once again I apologize for my post.

I'm not sure what made me find this thread that was last posted in over a month ago, but I just wanted to say "Thank You" to Coach2709. What a classy move, to look at the conversation with a cooler head and apologize. My hat is off to you!



Oops, they are all wearing hats. But I can assure you, MY hat is off!

Julie

I too aplaude coach2709 for his post. This is a great example of how the poster(s) control the direction of the threads. My respect for coach2709 increased a great deal after reading his post. I missed it the first time. Thanks coach2709 and thanks MN-Mom for bumping it to the top.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Has any coach EVER put a kid in the starting line up after "talking" to the parent?

Believe it or not, it happened this year. I could not believe my eyes.

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You talk about a player making errors but what kind of range does this kid have? This kid might be getting to balls that the other players cannot even come close to. When that happens you are going to have more opportunities to make plays and that will lead to more errors. Kid A may have 5 errors while Kid B only has 2 but Kid A's range allows him to have many more chances than Kid B.

Great Point! You would think this is a no-brainer but...

Where exactly is it in the parent handbook that says you should not (N)EVER approach a coach? and that such boldness would surely result in some sort of backlash towards your kids future? Who are they that makes them untouchable? Why can't you provide your opinions as positive feedback or concern? What other profession allows such privileges (unless your the godfather)? because I want that job! As a nurse I am constantly criticized and expect to address each one of my patients concerns! It is what makes me a better nurse and has given me opportunities to develop conflict resolution skills. Just maybe parental feedback could help the inexperienced coach reevalute his decision making process so that he too could develop good communication skills and TRY to make unbias decisions. Let's try to remember that these are still 15-16 year old boys who have been conditioned not to challenge authority and adults. It is very difficult for them to express their thoughts and feelings eloquently without feeling embarassed. It just takes alot of guts and most of the boys will just suck it up on the bench - and that is parents feel obligated to step in! And for the record I give more credit to the coaches who developed the kids before they made the Freshman team. Freshman coaches stick out their chest and brag about their record as if they had something to do with the kids development - bull....and for that reason I think it is absolutely okay to have a parent step up when they watch lesser or equal players get more playing time than their little Johnny sitting on the bench. I don't care if the coach had practiced everyday before the season started - the parents are the ones that have seen ALL the players perform for 7-8 years. If a parent and player can tough it out - then that is great. If you can't tough it out, remember it is all about how you approach it, your tone and timing. Good Luck

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Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Sanders:
Solid advise from parents that have peobably never been on the recieving end of a situation like this.

Since I responded to this post, I am asking how would you know that son has never been on the same receiving end? If he never was, I most likely would never post here.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that I feel mine was the best at his position, best hitter, best fielder in HS. He wasn't given the chances half of them were, he sat through the BS, the older players before him, coaches sons, blah, blah, every thing posted here and etc. He said screw it and found a top HS travel team for summer/fall to get him noticed, if he relied on HS baseball who knows where he would be.

After being denied for two years at bats or playing position other than a pitcher with limited role as a sohmore or junior, he proved them all wrong by leading team senior year in HR, batting and ERA. He asked once if he could contribute more, they said no, we never THOUGHT to ask. Maybe that's the difference here, most of our son's have gone through it at some point but survived and went on to play greater roles later on, we just never got involved because it's not our place to tell a coach how to run a team. JMO.
Work on what you can control and what you can't, period.
The poster asked if they should speak to the coach, my answer is no.

The very first step to resolve a conflict in our atheltic program school wide, is to talk to the coach, if no resolution is met, then go to AD, if that does not resolve or calm a conflict then VP and P become involved. It is stated in our parent handbook that this is the first approach. However,
you may not speak with the coach regarding playing time. That is not up for discussion. Only abuse issues, discpline, or academics may be in question.