Whats average speed for a 14-15yr old?

I was wondering if the average speed of a freshman’s fastball is calculated by taking all the freshmen on the team, clocking them, adding all their speeds together and then dividing by the number of freshmen on the team. Should we just use the ones that are currently pitching or do we check position players too? Do we geographically adjust the results. If we are looking at pitchers only, who do we calculate? Many used to pitch before they came to high school but aren’t considered pitchers at this point but MAY become pitchers when they are upperclassmen. To be fair and accurate we need to establish a national procedure for establishing an average fastball rate for all different age groups. I nominate Swingbuster to get the ball rolling.
Fungo

Good point Fungo. When a kid comes into a HS program what determines if they are considered a pitcher? Velocity and the ability to throw strikes is what we use as the determining factor. Now some kids come into HS and have a strong arm but have no mechanics and can not throw a strike. Some come into HS and can throw strikes but dont have enough velocity to pitch. The first group you work with and hopefully over time they learn proper mechanics and can help you on the hill down the road. The second group you work with and hopefully they develop the arm strength and gain enough velocity to help you on the hill down the road. Then you have the kids that have either avg good or exceptionaly velocity and can throw strikes. These are the kids that get on the hill right away. Hopefully they continue to work and only improve over time. In my years at the HS level the avg Freshman that we use as a pitcher is around the 68-72 mph range. The above avg Freshman is in the mid 70's and the exceptional Freshman is in the upper 70's to low 80's. Now that does not mean that the avg guy in the 68-72 can not throw harder than the exceptional guy by his sr year or even jr year. Work ethic, how much does he grow, genetics etc all come into play. We have had kids that were not even considered pitchers as Freshman that were borderline making the team end up as our #1 or #2 down the road. Some kids come into HS 5'6 140 and by their Jr year are 6'2 190 and really develop. And some kids come in 6'0 190 throwing 80 and leave 6'0 190 throwing 80-82. There are so many factors that it is impossible to project what kids are going to do from 15 to 19. If your a freshman and you are one of those exceptional guys dont rest on your current status because if you do you could be the avg guy as a jr sr. And if your one of those below avg or avg guys keep working because if you do you could be the exceptional guy your jr or sr year. We have two sophs that are 15. One is 6'3 165 and is 83-85 cruise and can hit 88. The other is 6'2 205 and is 82-84 and has hit around 86. We have two Freshman one a pitcher and one a catcher. The pitcher is 5'10 175 and 82-84 and has hit 86 and the catcher is 6'0 205 and is low 80's and has hit 84. His pop times are 2.1 2.0. All four of these guys are exceptional right now for there ages. What will determine if they are exceptional as Jrs and Srs when it will really matter for their baseball future? Work ethic during and especially out of season, genetics and staying healthy. We are really blessed to have four arms like this especially at a young age. But that wont mean a thing if they are satisfied with where they are at any point in the game. Getting caught up in where you are right now and where you stack up right now is counter productive. Where do you want to be and what do you need to do to get there is more important. And do you have the heart and the work ethic needed to achieve your goals is the more important question. jmo

Coach May -
Four young arms like that on one team? Sound as if you'll be winning lots of games for quite some time!

We are currently ranked #7 in the state. We are 11-3 5-0 in conference. There is no doubt that we are strong on the hill every game out. We have really pitched well and for the most part played really good defense. In the games we have lost we have just not hit and gave up a couple of runs. Our better sticks are our younger guys for the most part and they just need to learn to be more patient at the plate. We need to find some guys to step up in a couple of posistions for next year to fill in some holes by graduation. With the potential pitching that we will have from this group we could be darn good for awhile. Its kind of funny when we play people because we have a Freshman or Soph on the hill a Freshman behind the plate every game. We played in a tournement a couple of weeks ago and we started game one with a soph game two with a Fresh and game three with a soph and a freshman all three behind the plate. People are amazed at the level they play at and all four are just 15. Hopefully they all will continue to work hard at the game like they have and they only will get better with time.

Swingbuster and K13,
Having seen pitchers do well in HS against all but the best hitting teams without great location or great movement and also having seen their gun readings from showcases I'd say you are underestimating the impact of a 83+ mph fastball in HS. Any kid who can throw strikes at 83+ on a regular basis and has at least one off speed pitch will do reasonably well in HS. If they have good location and/or movement then they'll do very well.

CADad,

Your observations would hold true in my area. In fact it would hold true at many small colleges.

SBK,
I watched one of our HS pitchers throw against the only team to beat Chatsworth (last year's national champs) HS this year. He did quite well and he did fairly well against good teams as a junior. A showcase company showed him as topping out at 81 mph with only slight downward movement and a good slider last year. When I watched him pitch it looked like he was throwing smoke. He was probably throwing low 80s at most.

When I played against Mike Scott in HS in the early 70s I doubt very much he was throwing more than mid 80s and he was dominant. Of course we were using wood bats.

You dont have to go to a HS game to see what a pitcher can do when he can locate his fb and his off speed pitches. There are a ton of College "pitchers" that do this everyday. High School pitchers that have a good fb not dominate but can locate it and have a quality off speed pitch that they can locate and throw at anytime in the count with success can dominate a HS team.

CaDAD your right maybe...... I overstated at 83 ...thats pretty fast.

I have an 8th grader throwing high 70's low 80's but is not on a very good high school could he get noticed if he is at a bad school?

SF GIANTS,
Yes. If he progresses well, he could be a good pitcher. He'll get some notice at any school. However, if he isn't facing top notch competition scouts and schools would like to see him against strong competition. That's where showcases and summer teams come into play. There are a lot of articles and a lot of information on here that can help you with the process.

quote:

Originally posted by rbinaz:
I gun every pitcher I see at HS games and I see a lot....almost 50 games already this year.
Trust me when I say this: there are many more HS pitchers in the 70s than there are in the mid 80s.
My son is in the 8th grade and turned 14 2 weeks ago. He sits in the 74-76 range comfortably and that is way above average at 14U. We have 2 14U kids in the area (one the Baseball America POY last year)that hit 80 on my stalker this past weekend. That is exceptional.
I can't tell you how many people tell me about this kid or that kid that "must be in the upper 80s" and is in reality 81-83. Don't believe most of what you hear and you will be ahead of the game.

rbinaz:

My son is also an 8th grader in Tempe. Chances are we've seen our kids throw against each other. I also coach a 14U club team of Tempe kids. I don't really care how hard 4thgen is throwing as long as his command and composure is good. I've seen only one 14U kid throw in the mid-80's and right now with his back troubles I don't think he could be the one you gunned. I'd be curious who the other is?

I haven't seen any 14U kids who hit mid 80's around here. The player you are referring to (I think) has hit 81 for me one time and is usually 78-80. I've probably gunned him 10 times in the last 6 months.
I sent you a PM.

rbinaz,
The only HS game I've seen lately did have both pitchers throwing 87 to 89 and both hit 90 once during the one inning they were gunned. I saw one of our websters at the game with a stalker and asked him later what the pitchers were throwing. Just to confirm how things get exaggerated I saw an article later saying that both pitchers were throwing into the low 90s.

Of course I went to the game knowing that there were going to be some pretty good pitchers throwing. I was hoping to see the webster's son throw but wasn't smart enough to go watch him throw in the pen and the game ended before he got a chance to come in.

CADAD, similar thing here. Our 5A championship featured one of the top 2007 arms in the country. I've seen him as high as 93 but on Saturday he was 88-89 and showed 90 at times.
The paper reported him as being 94 and made it sound like he sat there the whole game.

Most of the 14-15's in the area here in NH run in the high-60-low70. Occaisional mid-70

Here in Southern NH and we had 2 8th graders last year in the area that threw 80+.

One threw 78-81, the other 81-83. Have timed the first guy only once this year and he was 79-82. He told players that he has hit 87 but was no where near that when I timed him.

2nd player that threw 81-83 last year is now Freshman, he’s 15yrs 5-months at runs 82-85 and hit 86-87 few times per game. I have timed him many times this season.

Have only timed a few Upperclassman in NH Class-L (large school) that cruise over 80 this year.

quote:

Originally posted by rbinaz:
CADAD, similar thing here. Our 5A championship featured one of the top 2007 arms in the country. I've seen him as high as 93 but on Saturday he was 88-89 and showed 90 at times.
The paper reported him as being 94 and made it sound like he sat there the whole game.

I was at a game early in the season where a scout had that kid at 94 for a high and 91-92 on most fastballs. Perhaps he just wore down as the season went along.

quote:

I was at a game early in the season where a scout had that kid at 94 for a high and 91-92 on most fastballs. Perhaps he just wore down as the season went along.

I was probably at that game too as I've seen similar numbers on the kid. I've seen him 5 times this spring and a number of times last fall and summer as well. You have to understand that its not uncommon to see signinficant variation in velocity from outing to outing and at different times of the year.This particular pitcher is normally in the 88-90 cruising range which was consistently as high as anyone in the state (despite what you may read in the media).

quote:

Originally posted by rbinaz:

quote:

I was at a game early in the season where a scout had that kid at 94 for a high and 91-92 on most fastballs. Perhaps he just wore down as the season went along.

I was probably at that game too as I've seen similar numbers on the kid. I've seen him 5 times this spring and a number of times last fall and summer as well. You have to understand that its not uncommon to see signinficant variation in velocity from outing to outing and at different times of the year.This particular pitcher is normally in the 88-90 cruising range which was consistently as high as anyone in the state (despite what you may read in the media).

Agreed about the variance from start to start or week to week. In addition I agree that concern about lighting up the gun is overblown. The hitters will let you know if someone is throwing hard.

As it relates to this subject, average speed for a 14 or 15 year old, it makes even less sense to get hung up on. Pitchers at this stage should be concerned with perfecting mechanics, getting stronger, (actually more poerful), and staying healthy. That is the path to maximizing potential, whatever it is, as a HS player.

In our 1st Sectional game on wed. we came in as the top dog, with the other teams ace (either Ace or Number 2 guy) being sophmore shwowing 85-87 on the gun. The only problem was he couldn't hit his spots. This kid was VERY tall and muscular though. He walked the first batter then the next two got HR's and then we batted around and the Lead Off man got a Grand Slam. The pitcher on the other team left with only getting 2 outs. So i guess what im trying to say is it doesn't matter how fast you throw if you can't hit your spots. We won 14-3.


plp556