quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
For all you young pitchers---don't worry about your velocity so much--be cocncerned with good mechanics, ball movement and pitch location---doesn't matter very much if you throw harder than the next guy but you dont get guys out
quote:Originally posted by J H:
DadofPlayer
Velocity is the most overrated thing in baseball.
Don't worry about the velocity focus on mechanics and arm strength.
With all due respect, this is a contradiction. It also sends the wrong message. Eventually, if you don't have velocity you will be cut. Maybe not from the high school team, but certainly at the college level. Sorry, you have to have velocity.
If you have proper mechanics and arm strength, you will have velocity. And the best way to develop arm strength is through long-toss.
If you young players want to throw faster, you need the arm speed. Throwing on a consistent basis to maximum distance (using the Jaeger program) and combining this with a good mechanical instruction and conditioning program is the way to go.
speed isn't always the most important thing while pitching or throwing from long distances. from what i have learned, there is mainly 2 strong things to look at if your pitching. 1st is control. is you can throw 95 and dont have control. youd be lucky if your better than somyone who throws 65 or so. the average complete speed whether your good or bad is about 66-67. 70 is a bit high for average. 75 is jv. and freshman throwing 80 mph IS possible but extremely difficult. people say as freshman"i could throw 85 to 87" thats urban legions and complete lies. i think the fastest freshman would top maybe 83 or so. with speed and control at your side, you will strike most people out.
quote:Originally posted by baseball pitching:
is you can throw 95 and dont have control. youd be lucky if your better than somyone who throws 65 or so.
baseball pitching, first of all.. welcome to HSBBW! But my goodness, you were kidding right?
Anyone that throws 95 must have some degree of mechanical refinement otherwise his arm would blow-out right quickly. I guarantee you, if you throw 95 any scout in his right mind would be all over you regardless if you couldn't find the strike zone with a pair of binoculars. They'll work on the strike zone part later.
Here's my point. Be obsessed with velocity. Maybe not at 14 but certainly at 16+. Outstanding velocity goes hand in hand with good mechanics. So it's a case of "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" argument. If you work on mechanics, your velocity will improve. The concepts are not mutually exclusive.
while i agree velocity is important. there are a lot of guy's that threw 95 that never made it.( not high school player's ).
getting guy's out is a pitchers job. do your job and you'll go far.
90's get you drafted, getting guy's out keeps you there. imho.
getting guy's out is a pitchers job. do your job and you'll go far.
90's get you drafted, getting guy's out keeps you there. imho.
Welcome BP:
Listen to BUM he is spot on.
My son just came off his freshmen season last year and I don't have my log book here at work, but from my memory. (Stalker)
Top Freshmen: Cruise 74-76; 78 Max (2 of them all season)
Ave Freshmen: 70-72 (league play top 1-2 kids on teams)
Others : 67-70
JV: Top one I saw 78-80 (82)
Ave: 75-76
I have heard that there were 1-2 freshmen kids in out county throwing over 80, but I never got a gun on them.
I always bring up the mcdsguy/HSBBW rule when velocity comes up "ask dad subtract 7" trust me it is surprisingly accurate.
Continue to work hard on velocity, it is the keys to the kingdom.
Listen to BUM he is spot on.
My son just came off his freshmen season last year and I don't have my log book here at work, but from my memory. (Stalker)
Top Freshmen: Cruise 74-76; 78 Max (2 of them all season)
Ave Freshmen: 70-72 (league play top 1-2 kids on teams)
Others : 67-70
JV: Top one I saw 78-80 (82)
Ave: 75-76
I have heard that there were 1-2 freshmen kids in out county throwing over 80, but I never got a gun on them.
I always bring up the mcdsguy/HSBBW rule when velocity comes up "ask dad subtract 7" trust me it is surprisingly accurate.
Continue to work hard on velocity, it is the keys to the kingdom.
Just for more information, not to make a point. My son is a 15 yr. old freshman. This fall on my Juggs, he started out in 1st inning throwing 78-79. His last two pitches (#72&73) were 81-82 for a strikeout. Took him out after that due to fall season pitch count. Take a couple mph off for Juggs vs. Stalker and he's around 80 for the fall. Hope you don't want to subtract 7 from that for "Daddy reading".
Very nice BUM, you hit the nail on the head. Believe it or not. I once had a 12 year old player that threw upper 70's, and was clocked in the AABC world series in Puerto Rico at 81 on several pitches with the Dallas Texans when he was still 12, granted it was a Jugs gun (hairdryer), but the kid threw hard as any 12 year old that have yet to see to this day.
The kid never played an inning of high school ball, his dad would take him out on game days and throw him 40-80 pitches before they ever got to the park, Dad's motto: Throw harder, never worked mechanics, dad had very little knowledge.
The kid developed elbow problems when he was 13. Took a year off from pitching. When he was 14 we used him in limited closing situations only, dad was not happy. Not pitching him enough. Been with me for seven years. I let him know his pitching workload would not change. He pulled the kid off the team, went to Little League, pitched every game till the end of the Summer, blew up his elbow, that was it.
Chalk one up for dear old dads!
The kid never played an inning of high school ball, his dad would take him out on game days and throw him 40-80 pitches before they ever got to the park, Dad's motto: Throw harder, never worked mechanics, dad had very little knowledge.
The kid developed elbow problems when he was 13. Took a year off from pitching. When he was 14 we used him in limited closing situations only, dad was not happy. Not pitching him enough. Been with me for seven years. I let him know his pitching workload would not change. He pulled the kid off the team, went to Little League, pitched every game till the end of the Summer, blew up his elbow, that was it.
Chalk one up for dear old dads!
I went back and read this thread and it certainly brought back some memories for me. The freshman are now freshman in college. The soph just completed his second year in milb. Man where does the time go?
The fresh rhp from my first post went to NC State as a corner inf / of / rhp. He was 88-91 for us his sr year. The fresh catcher went to UNC. The soph pitcher was drafted out of hs and is with Tampa at the A ball level. His sr year he as 90-93.
All three worked very hard. I was a lot better coach when we had them in our program.
The fresh rhp from my first post went to NC State as a corner inf / of / rhp. He was 88-91 for us his sr year. The fresh catcher went to UNC. The soph pitcher was drafted out of hs and is with Tampa at the A ball level. His sr year he as 90-93.
All three worked very hard. I was a lot better coach when we had them in our program.
I understand the motivation of 14 y.o. pitchers -- and fathers of 14 y.o. pitchers -- to want to know their son's velocity. I went through the same thought process myself with my son at that time. After all, these kids are looking to get a spot on the high school team, so they feel they need to know.
I found velocity very important in determining whom coaches pitch as freshmen in high school. When Bum, Jr. was a freshman, there was one kid that maybe threw 1-2 M.P.H. faster, and he was also a big kid (3-sport star). Bum, Jr.'s advantage was that he was a LHP--and had pretty good velocity as well, maybe 70-72. As the years went by, he worked very hard on velocity and became the ace of each school and Summer team he played on. And some of you know where he's at today with hard work. The big kid? He dropped out of baseball, blew out his knee playing basketball.. but that's another story.
If you're 14 y.o., or the parent of a 14 y.o., I will give you the advise I have given others: Velocity is not the show. It is the ticket to the show. You must be obsessed with velocity, but you must be equally obsessed with the art of pitching. Again, the concepts are not mutually exclusive. However, please don't think that, if you don't have superstar velocity at 14 y.o. you can't get it if you work your tail off. Some kids get it later. Some never get it. There's no rhyme nor reason to this thing.
So.. now that you know velocity is important, what are you going to do about it? How are you going to go get it?
I found velocity very important in determining whom coaches pitch as freshmen in high school. When Bum, Jr. was a freshman, there was one kid that maybe threw 1-2 M.P.H. faster, and he was also a big kid (3-sport star). Bum, Jr.'s advantage was that he was a LHP--and had pretty good velocity as well, maybe 70-72. As the years went by, he worked very hard on velocity and became the ace of each school and Summer team he played on. And some of you know where he's at today with hard work. The big kid? He dropped out of baseball, blew out his knee playing basketball.. but that's another story.
If you're 14 y.o., or the parent of a 14 y.o., I will give you the advise I have given others: Velocity is not the show. It is the ticket to the show. You must be obsessed with velocity, but you must be equally obsessed with the art of pitching. Again, the concepts are not mutually exclusive. However, please don't think that, if you don't have superstar velocity at 14 y.o. you can't get it if you work your tail off. Some kids get it later. Some never get it. There's no rhyme nor reason to this thing.
So.. now that you know velocity is important, what are you going to do about it? How are you going to go get it?
Just to give you a comparison to me who is a 14 year old freshmen in high school who is 5'll 140 pounds. I can throw about 80 mph mid to high 70s consitently. The thing about high school baseball is that speed isn't a huge factor because, the batters are sometimes bigger than you for instance seniors. You have to keep them off balance with off speed pitches with your fastball. But it is always fun to know how fast you throw especially if it is fast.
Just to add my two cents. I never put a radar gun on my son but last year another dad had one during the 13 year old all star tournament and had my son pretty consistanly in the 68mph range. My kid was/is pretty big and strong at that point I would say he was 5'9 155lbs. Now he is 5'11 and 165lbs but I don't think he is throwing as hard, as our pitching coach has him more focused on spots.
As a side note, in league play he is pretty fast compared to the other kids, but we went to some fairly high level tournaments in 2007 and 2008 and I would say he was a 6 or 7 on a scale one(slow) to ten(fast). In regional all-star games he is probably a 8.
As a side note, in league play he is pretty fast compared to the other kids, but we went to some fairly high level tournaments in 2007 and 2008 and I would say he was a 6 or 7 on a scale one(slow) to ten(fast). In regional all-star games he is probably a 8.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
14 yo average cruising speed would be about 65 mph. Average freshman pitcher (14 to 15yo) cruising speed would be about 70 mph. Average cruising speed for a good HS pitching prospect at 14 to 15 yo would be about 75 mph. That will usually get a freshman pitcher onto the JV assuming reasonable pitching ability to go along with the velocity. Cruising at 80 mph as a freshman would be a potential star. Cruising at 85 mph as a freshman is maybe one in the entire country each year.
Our highschool has an 8th grader(young 14) starting varsity and was REPORTEDLY throwing 82 at the start of the season.
It happens. When my son played 14U one kid who was 13U eligible cruised in the low 80's. He was 6'2". Robert Stock, now at USC hit 90 when he was fourteen. But this stuff is not close to normal.quote:Originally posted by tfox:quote:Originally posted by CADad:
14 yo average cruising speed would be about 65 mph. Average freshman pitcher (14 to 15yo) cruising speed would be about 70 mph. Average cruising speed for a good HS pitching prospect at 14 to 15 yo would be about 75 mph. That will usually get a freshman pitcher onto the JV assuming reasonable pitching ability to go along with the velocity. Cruising at 80 mph as a freshman would be a potential star. Cruising at 85 mph as a freshman is maybe one in the entire country each year.
Our highschool has an 8th grader(young 14) starting varsity and was REPORTEDLY throwing 82 at the start of the season.
I agree.Talking to people that know this kid,he works constantly on pitching.He sits at home and works with tools to build arm strength etc.
He is one of those rare kids that is just a great athlete(in all things sport) but he puts in the time to go with that naturall ability.
He is one of those rare kids that is just a great athlete(in all things sport) but he puts in the time to go with that naturall ability.
My son, a freshman LHP is 6'3" 190 lbs. He 'cruises' at 82-83. He tops at 86-87. He's also thick as a brick. His favorite word is 'what' pronounced wwwhhhhattt????
He doesn't take out the garbage until he's reminded at LEAST three times. He has a 4.0+ GPA (I've lost faith in the school system).
Personally, I think a lot of this measurement stuff is over rated. You all probably have kids who can mow the lawn or take out the garbage the FIRST time they're asked. That's outstanding. You have a lot less work to do than I.
Some freshmen are 5'2" on their way to 6'3". Their velocity will be different than my kid, who is 6'3" on his way to 6'3". Probably not as much upside for mine.
Keep developing them and let them bloom.
If you can get them to take out the garbage or mow the lawn along the way, more power to you!
He doesn't take out the garbage until he's reminded at LEAST three times. He has a 4.0+ GPA (I've lost faith in the school system).
Personally, I think a lot of this measurement stuff is over rated. You all probably have kids who can mow the lawn or take out the garbage the FIRST time they're asked. That's outstanding. You have a lot less work to do than I.
Some freshmen are 5'2" on their way to 6'3". Their velocity will be different than my kid, who is 6'3" on his way to 6'3". Probably not as much upside for mine.
Keep developing them and let them bloom.
If you can get them to take out the garbage or mow the lawn along the way, more power to you!
A friend of mine entered high school at 5'6" hoping to make the freshman team. He graduated from an SEC school as a 6'4" All-American. He made it as far as AAA. He said in high school it never crossed his mind he would become a pro pitcher.quote:Some freshmen are 5'2" on their way to 6'3".
quote:Originally posted by JMoff:
My son, a freshman LHP is 6'3" 190 lbs. He 'cruises' at 82-83. He tops at 86-87. He's also thick as a brick. His favorite word is 'what' pronounced wwwhhhhattt????
He doesn't take out the garbage until he's reminded at LEAST three times. He has a 4.0+ GPA (I've lost faith in the school system).
Personally, I think a lot of this measurement stuff is over rated. You all probably have kids who can mow the lawn or take out the garbage the FIRST time they're asked. That's outstanding. You have a lot less work to do than I.
Some freshmen are 5'2" on their way to 6'3". Their velocity will be different than my kid, who is 6'3" on his way to 6'3". Probably not as much upside for mine.
Keep developing them and let them bloom.
If you can get them to take out the garbage or mow the lawn along the way, more power to you!
Great post,I can still put a hand on the backside of mine and will but it still takes 3-4 times to get him to get in the shower or take out the garbage.He is a black belt and I suspect in about 2 years,he may be able to take me behind the wood shed.
I keep telling him,the day he can whip my but is the day he can/will move out. 
As a freshamn I was in the high 60's- low 70's. This year I was in the high 70's-low 80's. At this pace I can be throwing 100+ mph by senior year!
I can dream, can't I?
I can dream, can't I?
As I grew my father would joke there will be a day where respect sets in or he would be in physical trouble with me. One day in high school I forgot about respect and took a shot at my dad. Before I knew what hit me I was on the floor wrapped up like a pretzel. He inflicted just enough pain as to not injure me. My dad glared at me and laughed in a not funny way, "You just chose to mess with a WWII Marine vet trained in hand to hand combat. Bad decision"quote:Great post,I can still put a hand on the backside of mine and will but it still takes 3-4 times to get him to get in the shower or take out the garbage.He is a black belt and I suspect in about 2 years,he may be able to take me behind the wood shed. I keep telling him,the day he can whip my but is the day he can/will move out
Even though I knew my father was a great athlete, I couldn't picture a guy who put on a suit five days a week and drank martinis being that tough. Maybe they were the greatest generation for what they lived through. There was never another issue with respect.
