What's Better: K's with some walks or Ground Outs no Walks?

Who is doing the scouting? What pitch(es) are getting the K's? What's the velocity on their fastballs? What type of movement does each pitcher get? What level of competition are they pitching against? How big are they and how big do they project to be?

In other words the stats don't mean much by themselves.

Easy the one that throws harder.

You have time so get it in your head right now, work on velo.

I would guess scouts are going to prefer kid #1 for two reasons. First, it sounds like this kid has better "stuff" evidenced by the ability to get the swing and miss. Two, it doesn't sound like he has absurd control issues, so most likely any problems with control can be fixed.

In other words, control/command can be taught but raw stuff can't be taught.

Pitcher 1 is 5'9" 125 still growing. Pitcher 2 is 6'2" 165 and still growing.

Stats from HS and Travel team.

Pitcher 1 vs Pitcher 2
FB P1 (Low 80 vs low 70)
CB P1 has more velocity, however both have same movement
CU P1 has more speed differential, however P2 has more movement

Pitch Location P2

P2- due to height and build has more of a presence than P1

Emanski - You did bring up a good point. P2 K's are looking when they are there, P1 K's are swinging.

Looking at what college coaches would prefer to see. I know size gets noticed, however size also brings with it an expectation of performance.

I've seen a high 70's to 80 LHP pitcher get a D1 spot. He had size and pitchability to go along with strong performances in national tournaments. Then as a HS senior in a very strong league he had trouble cracking the starting rotation on one of the league's weaker teams, who's weakness was their pitching.

It will be interesting to see how many, if any innings he gets at the D1 unless they can find a way to get some velocity out of him.

I don't think either one is going to get much D1 interest at this point. Pitcher 1 needs a few more mph and Pitcher 2 needs 10+ more mph.

Pitcher 1 is close enough that he could add the velocity he needs. Pitcher 2 needs to learn how to throw hard if he wants to play at higher levels.

BOF is right. College coaches usually have lower limits on velocity and it takes something really exceptional or a underhand/sidearm delivery to get them to go below those limits.

Velo will get you in the door, command will get you the playing time.

I always love this analysis, it means nothing. Fo.. get.. a.. bout it....get out there and throw the c r a p out of the ball. I hate to say this but velocity is king, teach your kids to throw hard. If you can do this then a college coach figures he will be able to teach him to pitch.

Size does figure into the equation and they might take a softer throwing tall kid who looks like he will develop. Lefty's get some leeway, but without velo no coach will care. If these are 2013's then they both have some time, but if they are not throwing a minimum of 85 by the time they are a rising Sr they will be D2/3 at best. P1 could be something special if he is throwing low 80's now.

A lefty throwing 88 will have coaches all over him.

Tell pitcher 1 to put on some weight. With additional strength he might throw upper 80s.

Low 70s pretty much eliminates any size advantage that might be there. What presence can a 6-2/165 pitcher have with a low 70s fastball? He could be 7-0/275 and low 70s would still be low 70s. Of course if he is young, that low 70s could turn into mid 80s or better. Then there could be some interest.

Pitcher 1, if I got this straight, is a 5-9/125 LHP who throws in the low 80s without good command?

From a strict scouting perspective neither one of these kids would create much interest at this time. Then again, did you mention how old they are? If 125 lbs is throwing low 80s at a young age, that could develop into something interesting in the future.

Others here are speaking the truth, I wish more people were willing to listen to the truth. Velocity is very important. When someone says that so and so coach or scout said velocity is not that big a deal to them.... Just know.... They are trying to be polite or they are simply lying to you.

Belive the results rather than what anyone might say. The draft picks and big scholarship money goes to those who can throw with the necessary velocity.

Getting those high school hitters out can turn into BP at the next level!

PG,
Looks like OK command if he's got better than a 3:1 K/bb ratio.

Of course there's a difference between touching low 80's which would be my guess from the way it was posted vs. working low 80s and touching mid to upper 80s.

A sophmore lefty, about 5'9", at my son's JC worked 86-88 and touched 91 with good pitchability and got a scholarship to a decent mid-level D1 out here. He was listed by some as a potential late round draft pick.

Well, I guess you might say the absolute most important thing in pitching, relative to actually winning a ballgame, is to simply not allow runs to score. If you're throwing low 80's as a high school senior, and have the uncanny pitching ability to keep the opponent from scoring runs, whether they are unearned or whatever, the scouts may not care about you, but your team mates and coaches will love you - and in particular, your opponents will hate you.

But in all seriousness, velocity is king if you want to attract division one or draft attention. However, if you are a lower velocity guy who can pitch effectively and still wants to play in college - well, then GPA and SAT/ACT are king!

I apologize for being off topic, because I understand the original post was looking for feedback from a "scouting viewpoint."

Nearly all the top pitchers at the high school level were high strikeout pitchers. You see their h.s. stats and there's a lot of shutouts, 16k games, etc. I think my own kid averaged 17 k's a game during h.s. At the h.s. level, if you're a ground ball pitcher you're the #3 or #4 guy because errors behind you are going to happen. And if your walk % is low and you're not K'ing guys I guarantee you with those metal bats you're giving up runs. High K's means velocity and in the end, without that, you're not going far. Our #2 guy in h.s. was a kid that walked 6-7 guys a game, went 4-4, and ended up getting drafted in the 19th round.

It sounds like you just have two completely different pitchers. I would take the harder throwing strike out pitcher as a reliever and the ground ball pitcher as a starter. But if i had to choose it would probably be the taller pitcher because he has much higher of a ceiling and he already shows he knows how to get hitters out. Once he packs on some weight and gains strength he will have more velo to go w/ that control.

Bum is correct. The top hs pitchers get a lot of strike outs. Why? Because they are better than most of the hitters they are facing. That changes when they get to college. In a typical HS line up your only going to be facing a couple of guys that can hurt you. You basically can over match the majority of the HS line ups you face if your a top hs pitcher. In college every guy was a top of the order hitter in hs and they are simply much better. The strike outs go down. The strike zone also is smaller. The approach by the hitters is better along with the talent.

So if your a contact guy in high school. If average HS hitters are routinely putting your stuff in play imagine what a college line up is going to do to it? Pitchers in HS who are contact pitchers are not contact pitchers by design. If they could strike people out that is exactly what they would be doing.

Although I've seen colleges go after the relatively soft tossers with great pitchability, I've more often seen them go after the hard throwers who didn't have as much success in the W/L column in HS.