What's it like to have a TJ operation?

For most of your questions--do some research on your own

As to doctors--get the best you can--any operation procedure is sophiosticated

As for botching--hernia operations can be botched--get the right surgeon and do your home work before asking questions because if you do most of your questions will only need confirmation of what you have found

Genious at work.

quote:

Originally posted by Teacherman:
Genious at work.

Thought you may find these usefull:
www.ChipOnMyShoulder.com
or
www.I-Got-A-Grudge.org

Teacherman

I never thought about it in that way---Thank you

Tommy John surgery: Pitcher's best friend


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2003-07-28-cover-tommy-john_x.htm


I am real glad some people here never went to med school

Thanks for the article link, Dibble:
-------------------------------------
"Andrews, who performed about 150 UCL reconstructions in the last year, says the success rate for major league pitchers is about 85%.

"It's pretty much a sure thing," says John, now pitching coach for the Class AAA Edmonton Trappers, a Montreal Expos affiliate.

"Tip your hat to modern medicine," says Baltimore starter Pat Hentgen, in his first full season back from the surgery. "As far as the way my arm feels, it feels like it never happened."
-----

I'm not sure why so many here see TJ only as a negative--a product of parental or coaching failure, rather than the medical triumph it is for hardworking, hard throwers.

So has anyone had it or known anyone who has?

quote:

Originally posted by micdsguy:

I'm not sure why so many here see TJ only as a negative--a product of parental or coaching failure, rather than the medical triumph it is for hardworking, hard throwers.

Tell that to the young player who has to rehab a year or so and to the parent who is concerned about their son having major surgery.
Yes, I know three players who have had it. One is beginning to pitch after a year and a half, doing fairly well. I don't see him having a future after college, I may be wrong. His surgery was a result of throwing only sliders in HS. He has to learn to pitch all over again, the CORRECT way. I know someone else who is in rehab, this was an important year for him to do well for the draft. I don't have a problem with ML players having surgery that have been throwing for years, there getting paid to rehab. Young children and adults, yes. Read the article, the MAJORITY are college payers and HS players.

FYI, everyone is not a candidate for the sugery.

The third by the way is playing baseball, but not pitching.

I can tell you one thing, the first player I mentioned, his surgery was performed by Dr. Andrews (in the article, you do not see a lot of "quotes" from Dr Andrews, except for the success rate which is only 85%). Dr. Andrews told his mom he is now operating on 9 and 10 year olds. End of story.

End of story????? You've GOT to be kidding me. ONLY an 85% success rate? Tell THAT to the kid who has to rehab a year or so, or to the parents who's son had this surgery! Not sure where the perceived negativity is coming from here, but unless it is YOUR son who has suffered this injury that will in all probability end his dream of playing baseball (and you are not just living the experience thru three OTHER kids you know of) I don't think you can truly appreciate the great odds that ONLY an 85% success rate really are. Especially when your other option of not doing anything results in 0% odds of success! Having personally met Dr. Andrews, and having him perform this procedure on MY son only three weeks ago (AND, having talked to the gentleman re: his clientele....NEVER did a 9 year old come up in the conversation)......I would be glad to give anyone my son's e-mail address to get a PERSONAL and first-hand perspective on the surgery, the pain, the rehab as he goes thru it, etc.

Micdsguy,

If you would like, please PM me and I will give you my personal experiences (as a parent) of the procedure. Also, I can put you in contact with my son to get a first-hand account of the procedure and his re-hab as he goes thru it.

quote:

Anyone here ever had TJ repair? What's the operation like in terms of pain? How long were you in the hospital? Rehab period/pain? Cost?

I have not had the surgery but played with guys who have.

The pain is there...they are replacing tendons in your elblow. This is not painless.

Hospital time would be short but rehab is another story. You don't get out of the bed and start throwing again.
Rehab is painful...trying to get your range of motion back...trying to build strength...pushing yourself past your usual limits...sleepless nights because of the pain...Imagine not being able to throw for over 1 year and always worrying about the pain. When will the pain come back? Nothing worthwhile is easy, though.

This is not a panacea. This a long a process which results in an 85% chance to compete again.

luvbb - Sounds like you are the closest to the situation so far on this thread. How is the rehab going with your son? Any regrets on his part at this early stage and what are his concerns (if any) about the fact that 15% of major league players who have the surgery don't make it back into the show? Good luck to him - on his rehab and in the booth.

Micdsguy ...

As you can tell, there are a variety of responses from posters, just as there are a variety of responses for the players having the surgery. We have known two left handed pitchers (one high school, one college) and one college catcher (who didn't develop it because he wasn't taught the proper mechanics of throwing or the "correct" way to throw) who had the surgery. The high school pitcher had his tendon replaced with one from his arm, and also had the ulnar nerve relocated ... not something that is done on every TJ surgery. The college pitcher had his tendon replaced with one from his arm and the catcher had to use a tendon from his leg.

The results for all three of these players were excellant, tho I can assure you that they endured the painful rehab and the emotional effects that come with such a major operation. It wasn't easy to go through, it was hardly painless, and it was a major decision for the players and their parents to make. The high school pitcher didn't play past JUCO, but it had nothing to do with his arm and everything to do with personal problems off the field. The college pitcher is still pitching, and the catcher is back in full force after his year off. All three were back playing baseball within 12 months with good results.

This surgery is not for everybody, as has been indicated before. There are lots of factors to take into consideration before making the decision. One of course has to be the desire of the player to continue playing baseball. I used to think that some players ... whose talent I thought I was "qualified" to judge ... should just hang up their cleats rather than endure the surgery, but I realized that it is not my call ... I am not a scout or a coach and I have no idea what their dreams are, so I CAN'T judge their decisions.

I would suggest you contact luvbb directly as she has invited you to do since she has personally encountered the situation recently and has a direct relationship with one of the doctor's mentioned in the article. There is nothing better than first hand experience and she and her son can share their experiences with you.

Good luck in whatever decision is made.

The stats saying that 15% of the Major League pitchers not making it back to the big leagues is quite small if you look at it from a different view. If no pitchers get hurt, there are still going to be a % that don't pitch in the big leagues the next year, because a young pitcher could beat them out of a job. There are also a % of guys who have TJ surgery who don't work hard at the rehab and as a result, don't make it back. There are a % of guys who rehab real well, but were fringe pitchers to begin with who don't win a big league job.

The % of quality big league pitchers who have TJ surgery and then rehab well making it back, is probably much higher than 85%.

URKMB...
Thanks for asking. I drove up to campus this past Sunday and actually had lunch with my son where we, of course, talked about his surgery. It is now three weeks out, stitches are removed and he is in his elbow brace. His BIGGEST regret right now is that he wasn't able to be with the team for the weekend series at Northwestern. It is the first time in his life he is not playing baseball and being part of the team....it is tough. He is learning what it is like to be a parent listening to the games via the internet and over gametracker...LOL! Altho, when certain doors close, windows open up......he has somehow managed to work his way into the broadcast booth for the radio broadcasts at home games...so he feels he is still part of the team. He was very sore after the surgery, they had to take the tendon from his leg (rather than the wrist), and surprisingly the initial pain was greater in his leg than elbow. Surgery lasted about 1 1/2 hours. His surgery did require an overnight stay due to not taking the tendon from the wrist. Physical therapy started RIGHT away the day after surgery...altho it was very light, and he was sore, but able to fly back home to Philly the day after surgery. A real perk...because it was difficult to walk, he got to ride in one of those annoying "airport carts" that are always beeping at you in the bigger airports! LOL. A bit "embarrassing" he said! His first day of what HE calls "real" physical therapy was a week and a half ago. The sessions are running about 3 hours long. The physical therapy is pretty painful....but as of now...he is only feeling pain DURING the physical therapy sessions. He never did have any problems with sleepless nights due to the pain that some experience. He does go the physical therapy with the university trainers EVERY day, and I have been told that things are going well. This is the hardest part for me as a parent.....knowing that it is out of my hands and I have to rely only on the professionals and my son to do the best for my son. He will be staying up at school this summer to continue with his therapy and have continuity with the trainers. He realizes that this is just the beginning of the long road back....but he's psyched to get going at it. He will also be taking some extra classes this summer. Due to the redshirt, he now has an extra year and is thinking of double-majoring. He doesn't really have any "concerns" (at least that he is sharing with me) because he is confident that he will be back next year. He has absolutely NO regrets about having the surgery, and knows that he really had no other options other than to hang up the cleats and glove...and he definetly wasn't ready for that option. He had a completely torn ulnar ligament...so rehab wasn't an option. We had an absolutely professional and wonderful experience with Dr Andrews and his entire staff, and we are VERY happy we decided to go to one of the best for this type of surgery. By the way...my son isn't a pitcher, he's a catcher...according to Dr. Andrews the SECOND most prevalent receivers of TJ surgery. I guess I really don't understand the negativity towards this surgery when there really are no other options in many cases. YES it is painful. YES it is a long and hard rehab. YES there is the 15% chance you won't come back. YES there are ALWAYS chances of side-effects or negative consequences with ANY surgery. What are his thoughts on perhaps being in that 15% group that doesn't come back? He would be heart-broken, but would tell you that at least he gave it his best shot to be the best he could be, and a 15% failure rate is pretty darn good. He would be MORE distressed KNOWING that there IS an option out there for him that he didn't take advantage of. By the way, the doctors did say that when the surgery began of course it was only utilized by professional players. Now, as the procedure has been refined and proven successful, it is being used by more college and high school players. Do 9 year olds take advantage of the surgery? All I know is that Dr. Andrews talked as young as high school, of course it doesn't mean it hasn't happened somewhere. I think it is just not right to publicly knock the name of a world-reknown professional on this board...especially when there has been NO DIRECT CONTACT between the two people and the info relayed is not HEARD with one's own two ears.

quote:

luvbb

Glad to finally see some useful posts about this wonderful procedure.

As for the comment: "For most of your questions--do some research on your own," that is exactly what I'm doing. I'm not shopping for the operation now. While the subject of TJ often arises on this group (often in an oddly negative context), I thought some would benefit from hearing from those who actually underwent this still uncommon procedure, or know kids who had.

I realize that any surgery can be botched. We all know the upside, but I've seen little discussion of the downside. Seems the risk of death from a one-hour elbow procedure is microscopic. What else can go wrong within that 15% failure group?

quote:

By the way...my son isn't a pitcher, he's a catcher...according to Dr. Andrews the SECOND most prevalent receivers of TJ surgery.

Great post Luvbb:That quote especially is very, very interesting, and worth repeating.

luvbb,
Seems to me that you have misunderstood my reply to micdsguy.
I do believe he was taking the surgery on a light note, like "why the worry if your son needs surgery, he will be fine, or what is the big deal".
Well, as I stated in my post, which is what you stated, it is a big deal, a year or so of rehab and parents agony. I do not see it as a negative at all, but I do see it when parents or coaches feel that if something happens later on there is this surgery that can cure it. This was not directed at you. This has become reason why so many parents are pushing the kids to use curves and sliders at such a young age (as heard in an interview with Dr. Andrews). I don't know if you read SI, they profiled a nine year old who went through TJ and I do believe it was Dr. Andrews. Yes it is a career saving procedure. But surgery is surgery, and you just went through it with your son, so ask yourself, would you want to see this become the trend? I have a friend that has recently gained massive amounts of weight, her health is suffering. Her attitude is when I am ready I will have surgery and lose all of it. She is compromising her health because of this surgery.

Consider the question asked and the posters own responses. He even continues to insinuate a one hour surgery is no big deal. It's not just the surgery, it's everything else that goes along with it that he does not realize.
It has been boldly stated that the best source is from one that has been through it, that is correct, but if that poster would go bavk and read carefully, my post was for the parents who have been through it personally, because I KNOW HOW THEY FELT.

Oh and by the way, I was thinking about your description of your son's surgery and the pain you were feeling for him when Midsguy made light of the operation. I may have misinterpreted his post, just as you may have done the same to mine.
And I WAS not knocking a world renowned surgeon, I wrote to you regarding him. I didn't repeat what he had said to the mom (who told me the details last weekend) because it was not said to me. As I said if you have seen articles by him, you might understand. That article that Dibble gave a link to, did not quote Dr. Andrews much (one), but coaches and managers. Yes, you were the one who spoke to him directly so you would know, not some link to an article.

First of all to answer Micdsguy's question about what else could go wrong during surgery.....the answer is the very same things that can go wrong in ANY surgery....anesthesia complications, mistakes, etc. We did ask the doctor "the 15% who do not make a comeback...what kind of shape is their arm in?" And we were told it still functions like any other arm....you just can't throw without pain. Everyday functions are no problem. It is not like you have a dead arm hanging by your side. As a matter of fact, "non-throwing athletes" who have this injury usually do absolutely nothing to remedy it.

TPM.....First of all, I do not believe I mis-interpreted your post, and I do not take it as a personal attack, but rather an ill-informed opinion written against the surgery in general, and perhaps one doctor in particular by someone who has only experienced it thru others, altho you make it sound like you are an expert because you read some articles? And I may be wrong, but out of the THREE people you mentioned personally knowing who had this procedure...I do believe the third person you referred to was MY son? If so, you really know NOTHING about his experience and shouldn't refer to it as a source for your "knowledge" re: TJ.

By saying (re: the 9 year old comment) "I didn't repeat what he said to the mom because it was not said to me"...but then posting it on the internet makes no sense. I don't know whether the 9 year old story is true or not (and even if it WAS true....who am "I" to pass judgement. Would "I" let my 9 year old have the surgery...highly doubt it....but I'm not going to pass judgement on another family or pass judgement on the doctor who performed the surgery) ... but it was saying that, PLUS saying there is ONLY a 85% cure rate and saying Dr. Andrews didn't give quotes to the article......it all sends a message that does NOT equal the person I met. And BELIEVE me....by saying "If I had seen articles by him I 'might' understand".....now THAT is another ill-formed, and I might add condescending, opinion that shows you know absolutely NOTHING about me, my son, our family or our experience. I had previously read THAT particular article...PLUS MOST of the articles on the internet (probably MANY more than you have) when doing the research I needed to do to help my son make an informed decision on what to do. I have read MANY MORE since the operation, plus talked to many doctors, AND many people who have actually had the surgery. I do not need a lecture on reading MORE about Dr. Andrews. Dr. Andrews is a fine man, who took a "personal" call from my husband while at spring training on his day off ....and then inserted him into his schedule a mere three days later. He was MORE than accomodating and professional, and I would give my 100% endorsement to anyone who should ASK me.

I do not feel that Micdsguy was making light of the procedure....merely inquiring into it and asking what is wrong if there is a physical problem and the medical knowledge and techniques to remedy it are available. And I happen to agree with him....we should thank our lucky stars that we live in a time where this specific injury to the elbow isn't career ending. Just like a torn ACL used to spell the end to many football players.....a torn ulnar ligament no longer needs to spell doom for a ball player.

Would I want it to become a trend....akin to gastric bypass surgery????? What an odd question! Again, I am NOT going to debate the merits of gastric bypass...which "I" readily admit "I" have no "personal" experience with nor completely understand. However, the ONE major difference between the two is that if you have a completely torn ulnar ligament there is NO CURE FOR IT.....if you want to keep playing at a high level....you need this surgery. Rehab for "partial" tears is even proving less reliable than originally thought. What alternative would you have these boys pursue TPM?????? With severe obesity, there are at least alternative options available BEFORE resorting to the surgery that can be explored.

No, I would not wish this injury or surgery on ANY ball player. But I thank my lucky stars that we have the knowledge and technology to help remedy it. I just believe we should only express opinions about things we have personal experience with...unless specifically asked otherwise. For example...I would never give unsolicited advice on the draft even tho I "know of three kids who were drafted"....because MY son wasn't drafted out of high school...he went to college. End of Story!

Our family is now facing our son having TJ surgery next week. Jordan is 16 and felt a pop in the 5th inning of a HS game this wednesday. By noon the next day he was having an MRI and at 9pm I got the call. It left me cold, dazed and heartbroken. Now, only 2 days removed from the injury we have plans to fly to Birmingham on Sunday, meet with Jim Andrews on Monday, surgery on Tuesday and fly back home on Wednesday.

Our son is in a state of disbelief as are his mom and I. You understand the risks in this game but when it is your son that is facing this it really frightening. We all understand the setback of missing your junior year in HS, but if he is fortunate, he may be able to play next summer, which would really help. I've got a nice file of letters from schools that right now are probably not worth the paper they're written on. But, Jordan said, ****, that won't be the last time that I walk onto a pitching mound. Websters, a few prayers in this direction would be appreciated. Thanks.

itsrosy,
Prayers are with you, let us know how it goes.

Hello itsrosy, My prayers are with you and let me share a story with you and your son that hopefully inspires him. Last year one month before the draft my son heard that pop. He was 17 at the time and projected to go very high. He was drafted much later and had the surgery on June 17th 2004. Last Friday he was released from rehab on the 1 year anniversary. He's back throwing in simulated games and makes his first minor league start this Sunday. It was a long year and the key was that he was diligent with his rehab. Three hours a day, three times a week for 52 weeks. He missed one day, because of the flu. He also took the time to correct some mechanical flaws in his delivery and learn alot about pitching. Your son has the right attitude and tell him there are alot of guys out there like him and on the bad days remind him of that statement and seek out those who have been down this road. My son rehabbed with guys in his position and said it was invaluable. best of luck and God bless.

Itsrosey....you have a PM

luvbb, Sorry, but no message received. Please try again.

deldad, thank you for sharing your story. What an arduous re-hab that is required to successfully come back from this surgery. In our case, time will tell. In your case, best of luck to your son and may his dreams come true.

deldad, who is your son?

Rosy,

We just got back from a Prairie Gravel game in Lynwood. We heard about Jordan's injury there. Everyone on the Gravel will be pulling for him. It sounds like you have a top guy on it, all the Best!

micdsguy you have a pm

itsrosy,

We wish Jordan the best. My son had Tommy John in 2000. If you ever want to talk to him about it feel free to email me. pgjerry@qwest.net

Some do come back better than ever. I hope your son is one of them.

Corky9999, Thanks for your support. We'll need it. My best to all of the Gravel parents and coaches. Please extend my regards. If I remember correctly, last year we won that CABA State Tournament and I expect nothing less this year. Continued good things for Kyle.

Mr. Ford, Thank you for the words of encouragement. It is hard to believe that just 10 days ago we were in Ft. Myers for the PG Academic Showcase. I thought he had a good performance and was anxiously waiting to see his new profile and BA's comments. But now, that all seems so unimportant as he gets ready to go under the knife. It is surely in God's hands now.

Bruce.

itsrosey...I tried that PM again. Hope it works!

luvbb, You have a PM

Bruce, our thoughts and prayers are with Jordan & your family. I'm sure things seem gloomy & frightening now but you are getting a wonderful surgeon & the success rate now with TJ is amazing.
There will be a day in 2006 when you're at a ballpark somewhere and its 85 & sunny and Jordan will be on the mound or in the field.

First, Let me say thank you to those who offered words of encouragement and shared stories of their own experiences with TJ surgery.

Well, the surgery was yesterday in Birmingham and Dr. Andrews said it was a very good transplant. He operated on 17 patients yesterday, most being ball players and he is quite a gentleman. Now, the rest is up to my son, his therapist and God. 12 months is an awful long time if you look at it in its entirety, but I've told my son that we'll take it a day or a week at a time and maybe it won't seem like such a long, difficult road. I don't know what else to do. He may be ready to hit next spring but the protocol will not allow him to be pitching in games until the year is up.

I know I put him in good hands with Dr. Andrews and, again, thanks to all the websters for their help at a most difficult time.

itsrosy---

Great news! Your son is on his way...God bless!!

Itsrosey....

Glad to hear the operation and your experience with Dr. Andrews went well. I take my son down to Birmingham next week for his 3 month post-op visit (and hopefully it will result in him being cleared to start the throwing protocal). He was cleared to start swinging a bat last week. When I say "swinging"..believe me when I say it was VERY minimal...but it was the first time he said he actually felt like he was "playing" in a long time. Anyway...if you think your son would like to correspond with someone who is a few steps ahead of him in the TJ rehab department, please PM me and I will be glad to give you my son's email address.

Kathy (luvbb)

luvbb, you have a PM.

itsrosey......PM waiting for you.

Glad to revisit this thread with some good news. My son is in week 12 of his rehab and everything is going well. He was just cleared to start a very exact hitting program which started tonight with Jordan taking 15 swings, at 50% power, off the tee!! He was so excited to get the go ahead and all went well. We have our post-op visit to Birmingham in a few weeks and then we'll know more. Oh, also cleared to begin swimming.

Luvbb, I'm sure you know what this small step meant to my son.

Are you kidding me!!!???? THAT is great news! Congrats to your son! Yes...huge milestone...the first of many I'm sure to come!

Your son knows that mine is only a few months ahead of him in recuperation. Please tell him that he is hitting in the fall college scrimmages....and playing some first base. Pretty soon...YOURS will be back out on the field too!

luvbb, Great news about your son. As you well know, this is a long, lonely rehab but when you read about the successes it really helps. Continued good luck.