just curious.
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With the rules the way they are written it's probably 25%.
quote:Originally posted by D1:
With the rules the way they are written it's probably 25%.
25% of tuition only?
A 25% scholarship means 25% of total cost...tuition, books, fees, room & board.
In D1, 25% is the minimum scholarship. How much one receives is directly influenced by #1 Talent, #2 Position.
25% would not be an average, just a minimum.
In a basic rank of scholarship division, from receiving most to less...(all coaches handle this differently, while some put all their money in pitching, others spread it out more)
Pitchers & Catchers
Middle Infielders
Corner Infielders & Centerfield
Corner Outfielders
In D1, 25% is the minimum scholarship. How much one receives is directly influenced by #1 Talent, #2 Position.
25% would not be an average, just a minimum.
In a basic rank of scholarship division, from receiving most to less...(all coaches handle this differently, while some put all their money in pitching, others spread it out more)
Pitchers & Catchers
Middle Infielders
Corner Infielders & Centerfield
Corner Outfielders
Sorry cball, 25% is the minimum. But with 11.7 scholly's for team and every recruit has to get at least 25%, figure it out.
You did ask for an avarage correct? I'll bet it is darn close to 25%, but CPLZ always knows best so he should be able to come up with that firm number for you.
You did ask for an avarage correct? I'll bet it is darn close to 25%, but CPLZ always knows best so he should be able to come up with that firm number for you.
quote:Originally posted by D1:
But with 11.7 scholly's for team and every recruit has to get at least 25%, figure it out.
Also remember that not all schools fund the entire 11.7
quote:Originally posted by D1:
Sorry cball, 25% is the minimum. But with 11.7 scholly's for team and every recruit has to get at least 25%, figure it out.
You did ask for an avarage correct? I'll bet it is darn close to 25%, but CPLZ always knows best so he should be able to come up with that firm number for you.
I believe the rule is that if a kid gets any money, it has to be at least 25%. I do still think there are kids who get nothing though, which would be an important distinction so that not every player has to get anything.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
A 25% scholarship means 25% of total cost...tuition, books, fees, room & board.
In D1, 25% is the minimum scholarship. How much one receives is directly influenced by #1 Talent, #2 Position.
25% would not be an average, just a minimum.
In a basic rank of scholarship division, from receiving most to less...(all coaches handle this differently, while some put all their money in pitching, others spread it out more)
Pitchers & Catchers
Middle Infielders
Corner Infielders & Centerfield
Corner Outfielders
Position Players that can hit with high average and/or power will get moved up that food chain in most programs.
A scout told me that to spend $40k-$50k over a youths career for a $1,000 scholarship is a strange way to spend money BUT some parents will do whatever to obtain a scholarship, no matter what the value of it.
quote:Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:
I do still think there are kids who get nothing though, which would be an important distinction so that not every player has to get anything.
D1 has a 35 player max roster limit, but only 27 of those can be scholarshipped players. So each team fielding a full roster has at least 8 non scholarshipped players.
quote:Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
A scout told me that to spend $40k-$50k over a youths career for a $1,000 scholarship is a strange way to spend money BUT some parents will do whatever to obtain a scholarship, no matter what the value of it.
With scholarship minimums at 25%, an inexpensive school with $5000 tuition and $5000 r&b still equates to $2500 per year at least. This scout probably told you that several years ago before the scholarship minimums were in place.
As to parents that spend $40 to $50 K on juniors baseball, I'm sure there are some, but I never met one. Besides, I'm not sure you could attribute all the money spent on a kids baseball to the quest towards college scholarship. I think if my son wanted to play travel baseball, I'd probably pay for it regardless of the collegiate prospects he had. Just because someone doesn't have collegiate or pro aspirations isn't a good reason to drop out of sport completely.
I think for many of the travel ball kids the key is the competition is what they crave---the college situation will become a by product
I wonder if there really is an "average" anymore beyond stating there is a minimum.
Recently, Rich Hill of USD was interviewed and described following the USC model for his scholarships.
What he described is using all of their money on between 7-10 very, very top players and hoping they don't get injured and hoping they don't make any mistakes in judging talent, heart and the like.
The depth, or lack of it, would necessarily come from recruited walk-ons.
With the tuition/room/board at USD being around $50,000, the walk-ons would seem to come from very talented students who qualify for merit based aid?
Recently, Rich Hill of USD was interviewed and described following the USC model for his scholarships.
What he described is using all of their money on between 7-10 very, very top players and hoping they don't get injured and hoping they don't make any mistakes in judging talent, heart and the like.
The depth, or lack of it, would necessarily come from recruited walk-ons.
With the tuition/room/board at USD being around $50,000, the walk-ons would seem to come from very talented students who qualify for merit based aid?
You're example shows just how different things can be at different programs. Augie Garrido at Texas is famous for spending his money on pitchers leaving little for position players. Some programs reward the thumpers, some like to distribute it around as much as possible, showing love to as many as they can.
Most programs though seem to have a priority where the scholarship percentages are higher.
Most programs though seem to have a priority where the scholarship percentages are higher.
I think we will begin to see some very creative thinking on the part of college coaches/admissions at the D-1 level---academics are going to be even more critical now
In the case noted above USD will need to fill 17 more scholarship spots and that will mean academic scholarship money
In the case noted above USD will need to fill 17 more scholarship spots and that will mean academic scholarship money
quote:Originally posted by D1:
Sorry cball, 25% is the minimum. But with 11.7 scholly's for team and every recruit has to get at least 25%, figure it out.
You did ask for an avarage correct? I'll bet it is darn close to 25%, but CPLZ always knows best so he should be able to come up with that firm number for you.
Well, if we figure it out, as you suggest, a fully funded program of 11.7 scholarships couldn't possibly average 25% among the 27 scholarshipped players. If there were an even distribution of the 11.7 across the 27, that would, figuring it out, equate to 43% per player (that would also be the average). Figuring it out further, that's 72% more than 25%.
Simple math tells us that the mean average scholarship is 43%, which is 11.7/27.
The median average would be lower,and in fact, could very well be 25%?
If you have 14 kids at 25%, 8 at 50% and 5 at 80%, the median average is 25%. (Our government is notorious for manipulating either mean or median to get the desired result!)
However there is no rule that states that a school has to have 27 on scholarship, only that 27 is the max.
They could have 11 on full ride and 1 at 70% if they wanted to.
Some schools will use formulas like this example:
5.5 for Pitchers
1.2 for Catchers
3 for Infielders
2 for Outfielders
So, when they lose a kid to graduation, draft, etc, they know how much they can spend to replace them at that position.
The median average would be lower,and in fact, could very well be 25%?
If you have 14 kids at 25%, 8 at 50% and 5 at 80%, the median average is 25%. (Our government is notorious for manipulating either mean or median to get the desired result!)
However there is no rule that states that a school has to have 27 on scholarship, only that 27 is the max.
They could have 11 on full ride and 1 at 70% if they wanted to.
Some schools will use formulas like this example:
5.5 for Pitchers
1.2 for Catchers
3 for Infielders
2 for Outfielders
So, when they lose a kid to graduation, draft, etc, they know how much they can spend to replace them at that position.
What's the average baseball scholarship worth?
The correct info has already been posted. My answer is PRICELESS! For the 1st time in some dozen years, someone else gets to pay for his baseball expenses!! I was going to have to send the littler booger to College anyway... lol
The correct info has already been posted. My answer is PRICELESS! For the 1st time in some dozen years, someone else gets to pay for his baseball expenses!! I was going to have to send the littler booger to College anyway... lol
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:quote:Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:
I do still think there are kids who get nothing though, which would be an important distinction so that not every player has to get anything.
D1 has a 35 player max roster limit, but only 27 of those can be scholarshipped players. So each team fielding a full roster has at least 8 non scholarshipped players.quote:Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
A scout told me that to spend $40k-$50k over a youths career for a $1,000 scholarship is a strange way to spend money BUT some parents will do whatever to obtain a scholarship, no matter what the value of it.
With scholarship minimums at 25%, an inexpensive school with $5000 tuition and $5000 r&b still equates to $2500 per year at least. This scout probably told you that several years ago before the scholarship minimums were in place.
As to parents that spend $40 to $50 K on juniors baseball, I'm sure there are some, but I never met one. Besides, I'm not sure you could attribute all the money spent on a kids baseball to the quest towards college scholarship. I think if my son wanted to play travel baseball, I'd probably pay for it regardless of the collegiate prospects he had. Just because someone doesn't have collegiate or pro aspirations isn't a good reason to drop out of sport completely.
That quote came from a Pirates scout during 2000-2001 school year. That's when I had one kid who's father had him in the Baseball Factory and told me to get the other kids in there as well.
After what the scout told me ... I said NO way am I going to tell parents to spend that type of money.
There are certainly abundant examples of fools and their money being soon parted.
There are also countless examples of kids getting excellent returns on their parents' investments in travel ball and showcasing.
The first thing to understand is that playing baseball is primarily a form of recreation, often for both the player and his parents. So to the extent the parent might otherwise have, e.g., gone on the Alabama golf course junket, you wouldn't truly count that as something you would expect to get back in scholarship dollars.
The second thing to understand is that you don't have to sign up for everything that comes down the pike and really no one should. You need to keep a level head about what works and what is best for your son's individual situation. A kid headed for D-3 is going to have different a scenario from a guy who might be a 25% guy at D-1 or a pitcher who might command 75% or more at D-1. As we all know, the problem lies in the parental rose-colored glasses syndrome, where people insist on pushing their kid to a level that is not justified by their true capabilities.
If you were to measure the dollars my son got vs. what we spent, I have to say he got us an excellent return on the investment. On the other hand, had he not gotten that money, or if he were not a ball player, we would likely have chosen a less expensive (in-state) option. So maybe you could say we really only saved by comparing our current out of pocket to what it would have been sans baseball.
But even then, we did well. And we ain't the only ones!
The main thing I would suggest is that travel ball money, esp. to the extent spent before age 16, be considered recreation expense, not investment in a scholarship return. First, that will lead you to spend more judiciously. Second, it'll keep you from going crazy.
After that, I think it's important to begin with a down-to-earth assessment of your son's prospects, and then to develop a plan for his playing and showcasing that makes financial and time commitment sense to him, to your family, and to his realistic goals.
Lots of kids shouldn't be spending what they're spending on showcases, it's true. But others should. And if you don't bother to investigate the difference, with all due respect to Coach Milburn, you're going to be wrong at least as often by telling all kids not to do it, as you would if you told them all to do it.
There are also countless examples of kids getting excellent returns on their parents' investments in travel ball and showcasing.
The first thing to understand is that playing baseball is primarily a form of recreation, often for both the player and his parents. So to the extent the parent might otherwise have, e.g., gone on the Alabama golf course junket, you wouldn't truly count that as something you would expect to get back in scholarship dollars.
The second thing to understand is that you don't have to sign up for everything that comes down the pike and really no one should. You need to keep a level head about what works and what is best for your son's individual situation. A kid headed for D-3 is going to have different a scenario from a guy who might be a 25% guy at D-1 or a pitcher who might command 75% or more at D-1. As we all know, the problem lies in the parental rose-colored glasses syndrome, where people insist on pushing their kid to a level that is not justified by their true capabilities.
If you were to measure the dollars my son got vs. what we spent, I have to say he got us an excellent return on the investment. On the other hand, had he not gotten that money, or if he were not a ball player, we would likely have chosen a less expensive (in-state) option. So maybe you could say we really only saved by comparing our current out of pocket to what it would have been sans baseball.
But even then, we did well. And we ain't the only ones!
The main thing I would suggest is that travel ball money, esp. to the extent spent before age 16, be considered recreation expense, not investment in a scholarship return. First, that will lead you to spend more judiciously. Second, it'll keep you from going crazy.
After that, I think it's important to begin with a down-to-earth assessment of your son's prospects, and then to develop a plan for his playing and showcasing that makes financial and time commitment sense to him, to your family, and to his realistic goals.
Lots of kids shouldn't be spending what they're spending on showcases, it's true. But others should. And if you don't bother to investigate the difference, with all due respect to Coach Milburn, you're going to be wrong at least as often by telling all kids not to do it, as you would if you told them all to do it.
quote:The main thing I would suggest is that travel ball money, esp. to the extent spent before age 16, be considered recreation expense, not investment in a scholarship return. First, that will lead you to spend more judiciously. Second, it'll keep you from going crazy.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Lots of kids shouldn't be spending what they're spending on showcases, it's true. But others should. And if you don't bother to investigate the difference, with all due respect to Coach Milburn, you're going to be wrong at least as often by telling all kids not to do it, as you would if you told them all to do it.
To correct you, it's NOT my place to tell a player or parent to spend that money ... the choice is for theirs to make, not mine.
I don't believe I said I would tell them NOT to go, I was not going to tell them to go join such-n-such whatever thing.
I don't think that the average scholly info would matter that much. All kids are different and all programs have different needs. Maybe if we had the info on what does a lhp that throws 90 gets or a rhp who throws 88 at a specific university with a specific coach on a specific year.
That might be good info. But a little tough to get. Every kid, coach and program is different and some of those variables change year to year based on needs of the program.
That might be good info. But a little tough to get. Every kid, coach and program is different and some of those variables change year to year based on needs of the program.
Just to expand a little on the topic of scholarships and what figures into the $$ amount let me share a telephone conversation my son had with a D-1 coach.. The coach asked my son if his parents (his mother and I) had put aside money for his college education. I'm sure it caught the coach off guard when my son immediately relayed the question to me. I told him to tell the coach that's wasn't any of his da-- business. I'm sure he sugarcoated my remarks to the coach. That coach later offer a 50% scholarship to my son and he declined. 
If you measure 'worth' in terms of the opportunity to experience a lifelong dream, the personal growth from that experience, and all the lifetime relationships built up through it all, it's priceless.
For us it was never about dollars, it was about my son being able to live his dreams. Scholarship $$ were just a nice side benefit that softened the blow to the wallet. If you count up all the hours spent on the field, gym time, games, bullpens, running, PT time, travel, summer ball, etc., a kid mostly concerned about paying for college would do a whole lot better just getting a regular job. I think lots of other folks have done a good job covering the landscape of expected %, etc.
Sean is in his final year at D1 at Fresno. I look at him now and see such an enormously mature young man, honed by both the warmth of success and coping with the harsh crucible of failure. I compare him to what I was like at that age and realize he has a HUGE leg up on life from this experience regardless of what comes next. He's learned things about himself, his core values, and inner strength that took me decades to discover in the working world. He experienced the 'high' of contributing to a CIF and National Championship. He experienced the 'low' of performing well below expectations after recoverying from bicep tendonitis, and essentially re-teaching himself a new delivery through a very rough season last year. He learned how to embrace adversity as an opportunity for personal growth, came out the other side stronger mentally, confident in what he learned (both about pitching technique and his own mental toughness), and possessing a calm confidence in being ready and accepting of whatever comes next. In his own words, his job is to just be ready to perform when an opportunity presents itself, the rest is in God's hands. That perspective will apply to a whole lot more than baseball.
So when I think about the scholarship, all the money we've spent over the years, etc., I just reflect on watching him wear last years lumps, the frustration and pain that cast shadows on his spirit, and the personal growth that resulted. Instead of licking his wounds, he headed off to Chicago this past summer with stone hard determination to own changing the results and blossomed into the pitcher he's always wanted to be. Now I watch him standing calm, confident, determined, and ready for his final D1 season regardless of whether that means 1 IP or 70 and not thinking or caring about anything other than being 100% ready to contribute to his team regardless of his role. That's a maturity and inner peace that took me years to find. Whatever he chooses to do with that next, whatever the outcome of this coming season, that self-discovery will serve him well in all parts of his journey of life.
So by my measures ... again, priceless.
For us it was never about dollars, it was about my son being able to live his dreams. Scholarship $$ were just a nice side benefit that softened the blow to the wallet. If you count up all the hours spent on the field, gym time, games, bullpens, running, PT time, travel, summer ball, etc., a kid mostly concerned about paying for college would do a whole lot better just getting a regular job. I think lots of other folks have done a good job covering the landscape of expected %, etc.
Sean is in his final year at D1 at Fresno. I look at him now and see such an enormously mature young man, honed by both the warmth of success and coping with the harsh crucible of failure. I compare him to what I was like at that age and realize he has a HUGE leg up on life from this experience regardless of what comes next. He's learned things about himself, his core values, and inner strength that took me decades to discover in the working world. He experienced the 'high' of contributing to a CIF and National Championship. He experienced the 'low' of performing well below expectations after recoverying from bicep tendonitis, and essentially re-teaching himself a new delivery through a very rough season last year. He learned how to embrace adversity as an opportunity for personal growth, came out the other side stronger mentally, confident in what he learned (both about pitching technique and his own mental toughness), and possessing a calm confidence in being ready and accepting of whatever comes next. In his own words, his job is to just be ready to perform when an opportunity presents itself, the rest is in God's hands. That perspective will apply to a whole lot more than baseball.
So when I think about the scholarship, all the money we've spent over the years, etc., I just reflect on watching him wear last years lumps, the frustration and pain that cast shadows on his spirit, and the personal growth that resulted. Instead of licking his wounds, he headed off to Chicago this past summer with stone hard determination to own changing the results and blossomed into the pitcher he's always wanted to be. Now I watch him standing calm, confident, determined, and ready for his final D1 season regardless of whether that means 1 IP or 70 and not thinking or caring about anything other than being 100% ready to contribute to his team regardless of his role. That's a maturity and inner peace that took me years to find. Whatever he chooses to do with that next, whatever the outcome of this coming season, that self-discovery will serve him well in all parts of his journey of life.
So by my measures ... again, priceless.
Pbonesteele- great post. Obviously as a parent you really "get it". Your son is lucky to have a father that understands that baseball is far more than the game played on the field. All the other life lessons are equally important regardless of the win-loss record.
Good luck to him this year. Hope it's a great one for him and his team.
My son's team played in your spring break tourney last season. You guys were great hosts and it was a fun time! You've got a great fan base too.
Good luck to him this year. Hope it's a great one for him and his team.
My son's team played in your spring break tourney last season. You guys were great hosts and it was a fun time! You've got a great fan base too.
quote:Now I watch him standing calm, confident, determined, and ready for his final D1 season regardless of whether that means 1 IP or 70 and not thinking or caring about anything other than being 100% ready to contribute to his team regardless of his role. That's a maturity and inner peace it took me years to find.
Exactly!
pbonesteele - I have always admired your posts and point of view. Like observer44, when you post you indeed have something to say.
FWIW, I have followed your son Sean for many years now and from many thousands of miles away. It seems to me that at his core he is a winner. He has learned that most important lesson that the success of the group is indeed what is most important. From that success, he has earned a lifetime of self-worth, satisfaction, and achievement. I'll never forget when I was watching ESPN that night and David (Fresno State) was playing Goliath (Arizona State). I saw my own belief strengthend that a unified team can beat a collection of talented individuals. I am not suggesting that ASU did not play as a team that night but I have no doubts the best "team" won and ultimately went on to win the National Championship that year. I'll never forget when Sean was called out of the bullpen that night and the poise and talent he showed when he pitched to send his team to Omaha.
FWIW, I have followed your son Sean for many years now and from many thousands of miles away. It seems to me that at his core he is a winner. He has learned that most important lesson that the success of the group is indeed what is most important. From that success, he has earned a lifetime of self-worth, satisfaction, and achievement. I'll never forget when I was watching ESPN that night and David (Fresno State) was playing Goliath (Arizona State). I saw my own belief strengthend that a unified team can beat a collection of talented individuals. I am not suggesting that ASU did not play as a team that night but I have no doubts the best "team" won and ultimately went on to win the National Championship that year. I'll never forget when Sean was called out of the bullpen that night and the poise and talent he showed when he pitched to send his team to Omaha.
Son attended South Carolina's pitcher/camp this past weekend and they said their average was somewhere around 46-47% at USC...so, there's a mix of 25%'ers a couple over the 50% mark and ZERO on full athletic rides...
Greg
Greg
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I think for many of the travel ball kids the key is the competition is what they crave---the college situation will become a by product
I agree with you TR!