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Dayne Perry on
So now the Marlins, apparently not sufficiently gutted, are talking about pawning off Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. Such a move would make them a mid-grade Triple-A squad. Perhaps they’ll mint what will be known henceforth as “Loria’s Law,” whereby a team’s talent eventually lowers itself to the level of its owner’s integrity.

How could MLB allow this loser to buy another team after already seling out on Montreal and making them a joke before they moved.

Here's more info on Mr Loria:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jeffrey H. Loria is an art dealer and an owner of professional baseball teams.

A 1957 graduate of New York's Stuyvesant High School, Loria spent many years as an art dealer, first for Sears and then for his own firm. He also authored two books: 1965's Collecting Original Art and 1969's What's It All About, Charlie Brown? (co-written with Pat K. Lynch).

His first baseball venture came in 1989, when he purchased the minor league Oklahoma City 89ers. During the 1990s he attempted to purchase several Major League teams, notably the Baltimore Orioles. He finally succeeded by purchasing 24% of the Montreal Expos in 1999 and became their Managing Partner. Loria orchestrated a series of controversial cash calls that diluted the share of the other owners and increased his own to 94%.

Then, in an orchestrated move with Bud Selig and John Henry (owner of the Florida Marlins at the time), Henry bid for the Boston Red Sox, sold the Florida Marlins to Loria, who promptly sold the Expos to MLB. This transaction prompted a RICO lawsuit by minority shareholders of the Expos. The suit accused Loria and his staff of conduct "that effectively destroyed the economic viability of baseball in Montreal (that) included removing the Expos from local television, subverting well-developed plans for a new baseball stadium in downtown Montreal, purposefully alienating Expos' sponsors and investors, abandoning agreed-upon financial plans for the franchise, and undermining a planned recapitalization of the franchise that would have added new Canadian partners." The Expos were ultimately transferred to Washington and became the Washington Nationals. Marlins team president David Samson, Loria's son-in-law, mentioned during the 2005 offseason that the Marlins were exploring attempts to relocate.

Congratulations Bud, you picked a loser!

He's what I'd call a HOMEWRECKER!!!
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The attendance at the game the other night was approx 8,000. He is NOT going to be able to afford payroll for the whole team, let alone his two only MLB players.
Mr. Loria wants his franchise out of Florida, even after two championships for the team (one under Wayne). There is NO market for MLB baseball here in FL,even with a new stadium with retractable roof or with the latest state of the art facility. Just because the minor leagues sell out atendance everyday in spring does it mean that we need a major league franchise here. If anyone lives here they understand,

He's playing the game, how low can I get before they let us out of here.

Bud, let him go. It's a disgrace.
Originally posted by sluggo:
Just curious - why is there no market in Florida for MLB?

The Marlins did beat the Astros last week, which is scary to an Astros fan. It seems that something is wrong with Pettitte's arm and no one is talking about it.

Let's see, between college football basketball and baseball, NFL football, NBA basketball, NHL hockey and devastating summer heat and 100% humidity and rain every late afternoon it's pretty easy to figure out. Plus most of us are displaced fans from all over the country, mets, yankees, BOSOX fans in particular.
We went to see Zach pitch last season, after rain all afternoon, then beginning rain delay, then second inning rain delay people were leaving an already half empty stadium. No one wants to pay the bucks for a retractable roof.
Also, the way we are situated which is three counties aligned north /south the folks from the north do not want the two hour drive in traffic to see a game and those from the south do not want to drive 2 hours to the north to watch. Right now the stadium they are using (Pro Player) is in the middle county, but still no one goes.
Last edited by TPM
This is, alas, a football state. Right now, football is getting more daily coverage in the Orlando Sentinel than the MLB. Golf and basketball overshadow the MLB as well. Heck, fishing gets a page and the MLB gets a page and a half!

Actually, it's not a bad thing if you're an actual baseball fan; their "reporting" and "analysis" (aside from the wire service blurbs) seem to be from people who have heard of baseball, but never actually seen the game played.....
Can't sleep due to a stiff neck suffered while straining to see home plate at the Marlins/Nationals game on Sunday (from seats only midway down the left field line). So, I thought I would weigh in on this topic. TPM has succinctly and accurately stated the root geographical and meteorological problems down here. But, I think she is wrong about the "market". At least she used to be, and I hope she still is. But, how many times can an owner abuse even an adoring pet before the pet bites back, or simply runs away?

The problem has always been about the "stadium." I had season tickets the first 7 years of the franchise. I even kept them after the first fire sale (1998 season) but resigned in protest when MLB decided to get in on the fan abuse by taking away the All-Star game.

People down here tend to forget that during the Huizenga era the Marlins averaged about 30,000. During the interminable rain delays we would joke about the increasingly creative means Wayne employed to convince people he was losing money and needed a baseball only stadium. (For example, he negotiated a bad deal with himself as owner of the stadium and the Marlins were getting killed on the rent and the ancillaries, and so on.) It was funny at the time but when a loud-mouthed radio personality joined by a few reporters started a "no public money to build a playground for millionaire athletes and owners" campaign, Wayne took his ball and went home. Hence "fire sale one"; the theft of the All-Star game; the Henry/Loria/MLB charade; the magic of 2003; disappointing attendance last year, and now... well, "fire sale II" which is so complete it does look like a conspiracy. Although attendance was disappointing last year, it was reported that the Marlins radio and TV ratings were the best ever, indicating the emergence or re-emergence of a strong fan base and a substantial following. It takes time to re-build trust, more than a couple of years, so this year's fiasco may well be the final nail. The "no market" notion could indeed become a self-fulfilling prophecy. However, without a new stadium failure is a certainty.

First, we don’t build stadiums for athletes anymore than we build art galleries for artists, or performing arts centers for actors and producers. We build them for ourselves; for the quality of life in our community. If some of these reporters etc. took the time to find out what types of things "public money" is used for in this state, a stadium begins to look pretty good.

As TPM notes, there are geographical issues. Southeast Fla. is bounded by ocean on the east and the Everglades on the west. Its explosive growth has been in a linear fashion north and south over 3 different counties and many municipalities. Despite the relatively large metropolitan population none of the major cities (Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm ) approaches a typical MLB city in size, and it is virtually impossible to get any of these entities to cooperate with one another.

Essentially the Marlins core fan group lives in a 90 mile by 20 mile box with no unifying local governmental entity. For most people this translates to long and/or time consuming travel to and from each game. Travel time alone is not necessarily a deterrent to true fans, but if you factor in one more insidious aspect you reach the root of the problem… rain. We may have the best weather in the world from Feb. – April, but during the summer it rains… virtually every day. Not cleansing mists, but toad strangling gushers that would routinely cause flooding anywhere other than on South Florida's oolitic limestone base.

These storms often arrive in the late afternoon just about the time you might be thinking of taking in a ballgame. Furthermore, unlike the usual weather patterns in the Northeast or Midwest, these tropical cells may be isolated so that you never know what the weather might be like 5 miles away, much less 50. It is not unusual to see a 15+ inches divergence in rainfall in different locations in the Marlins fan core area. Dolphin Stadium is located in an area that is routinely at the high end.

These storms may have little effect on most South Floridians; they come and go relatively quickly, we are used to them, (and most people are not planning on sitting outside all-night in the stultifying aftermath). But they wreak havoc baseball-wise. The loud-mouthed radio personality is fond of pointing out that while the Marlins may lead the league in rain delays, they don't have many more postponed games than some other teams. Of course, the Marlins also have one of the world's most powerful and sophisticated pumping and drainage systems under their field and are global leaders in the consumption of dirt drying products. They do an excellent job of getting these games in. But no one pays $100 for tickets to watch even an excellent ground crew work, or to sit soaking under the stands in 90% humidity watching your skin mildew while drinking $6 beers.

Here are some "for instances" which might make the point a bit more clearly for the readers on this board. Connie Mack coaches routinely schedule games all along the Marlins fan base area- South Dade to Jupiter. We would schedule games every day and doubleheaders most weekend days, approximately 65-70 games in a 2 month period. We never got more than half of them in. We often car-pooled or caravanned to the games that were furthest away and kept in constant touch with the opposing team and each other as to weather conditions. Nevertheless, one year we had 4 straight games (all of which were over an hour away) rained out in the 1st inning. We had to pay the umps and drive back. Last summer my son played on a team whose home field is less than 10 miles from Dolphin Stadium. We had an absolutely miserable 39 straight days of rain causing the cancellation of 24 games. The Marlins had no "rainouts" during that period, just a "few rain delays."

A couple of years ago I had a group of very young, but very talented kids from West Broward county. We had a Sunday doubleheader with the Florida Bombers at Killian High School about 30 miles south of us. The first game was scheduled to begin at 11:00 am. It began pouring up here at about 6:00 am and continued unabated until 9 when it was time to leave. The Bomber coaches assured me that the weather was fine down there and I passed the word along to the players. It rained all the way down, but stopped just north of the park. There were a bunch of scouts and several college coaches at the game, including Jim Morris. To my abject embarrassment we only had 8 players show up by game time. I literally took a kid out of the stands and put him the field while trying to contact the other players. I finally got ahold of them about three innings in. They had been driving together and turned back because the storm was so intense they couldn't see and the cell phones weren't working. They turned back around and made it in time for the second game which, of course, was rained out before the first pitch.

My point I guess is that even the staunchest fans with the highest motivations have a battle on their hands where baseball is concerned during the summer months in South Florida. Without a user friendly team and facility they will continue to watch on TV, only now it will be the Braves or perhaps the Marlins North (Red Sox) or the MetroMarlins (Mets).

Here is a bit of irony: I just glanced at today's newspaper and found this article.,0,52...ll=sfla-sports-front

Could the worm be turning?
Tiger Paw Mom writes:
Let's see, between college football basketball and baseball, NFL football, NBA basketball, NHL hockey and devastating summer heat and 100% humidity and rain every late afternoon it's pretty easy to figure out. Plus most of us are displaced fans from all over the country, mets, yankees, BOSOX fans in particular.

This quote could also describe Houston Texas, except that our summers are even hotter. But we never have rainouts, we have a retractable roof on Minute Maid, and it is worth every penny.

As far as the Marlins coming to San Antonio, if they come, which is a big if, it would be successful, I believe. Drayton McLane might not be too thrilled, though.

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