... the American University System.
The Atlantic
Original Post
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I am the son of two college educators (father a professor, mother an instructor). I work in a government research lab and have a lot of contact with universities on a daily basis.
I agree with some of the article, disagree with other parts.
* You can definitely get a very good undergraduate classroom education at virtually any university as the authors point out...but the in-class competition does not push you as much. I know this firsthand...undergrad at University of Cincinnati (great instruction), grad schools at Stanford. Big difference in the peer push angle. But also a big difference in graduates of some elite schools foolishly thinking thats all they ever needed. I think the overall point they are trying to make is fairly reasonable.
* The very best engineers we have hired have come from MIT, Princeton and the like. Purdue, Cal, UC Davis, Cal Poly and Georgia Tech also produce really great engineers and they are all far less expensive.
* I think the current system (as seen through my own kids eyes) very definitely favors a liberal arts education over what they call 'vocational training.' So I don't really agree with their observation. There is much more push to dive into the liberal arts than into engineering, architecture, etc... Even those degrees have far more liberal arts requirements with them than they used too. In my view, we are not coming close to producing enough people who invent, create and make things. We are not positioned well (technologically) to 'invent' the new 'green technologies' that so many desire. Other countries (ironically, the ones who are purported to be the biggest 'green abusers') are far more ready to create new technologies because they are educating a lot more engineers...or they're sending them here for us to educate.
* Star faculty members and their interests. Mostly agree with their observations on this.
* Government pouring too much money into research? Agree, maybe, sort of. I'd say its more about how they (we) pour it in. Congress writes a bill to spend a lot of money on XYZ. Government agency gets this gigantic glob of money for XYZ that they didn't necessarily ask for, but now they have to spend it...FAST! So they do...and a lot of it creates jobs, but doesn't produce sustainable jobs. This is happening, en masse right now with the stimulus bill of a year ago. Maybe a good idea? But an implementation that is not good, not good at all. Don't blame the educators (IMO), blame the politicians who are trying to garner votes at home for their 'good deeds.'
* Tenure? Mostly agree. My parents would have agreed too. Its an old system that needs an overhaul. I like the way my kids' HS does it (private school). First 2-4 years...you are being evaluated fairly closely. If you are kept beyond that, you get the benefit of the doubt...unless you hit a bad streak of a couple/few years. No formal tenure, a bit of stability given to you when you earn it, but no lifetime contract.
* Engineering degree in two years? Laughable. I'll assert that it takes about 5-6 years...to do it right.
* Take a year or two or three to think about what you want to do after college? OK, maybe in some cases...but as a rule? No. From my perspective, this thinking (clearly delivered at schools today) has delivered too many college graduates who think their first job is a playground...no need to produce...just sit and think and ponder 'what to do.' Yes, even the engineers are starting to be this way. My wife works at Cisco...they get people like this too...they don't last long. So maybe they should go work at Old Navy...but what skill does that provide for me to want to hire them? For Cisco or GoldmanSachs or whomever? I think what they propose is a big problem. A very big problem and I know a lot of employers who agree with me.
* Big college sports programs a problem? Lets see how that plays on here. No further comment.
* Schools with no grades, 'free thinking', etc..? Nonsense. My experience with my own kids' college educations that 'free thinking' means pushing a certain political agenda by the liberal arts professor. It doesn't really mean free thinking. It means thinking their way.
I guess I don't agree with much of this book/article now that I think about it. If your kid follows their advice, we won't be hiring you and thats ok (for both of us).
I agree with some of the article, disagree with other parts.
* You can definitely get a very good undergraduate classroom education at virtually any university as the authors point out...but the in-class competition does not push you as much. I know this firsthand...undergrad at University of Cincinnati (great instruction), grad schools at Stanford. Big difference in the peer push angle. But also a big difference in graduates of some elite schools foolishly thinking thats all they ever needed. I think the overall point they are trying to make is fairly reasonable.
* The very best engineers we have hired have come from MIT, Princeton and the like. Purdue, Cal, UC Davis, Cal Poly and Georgia Tech also produce really great engineers and they are all far less expensive.
* I think the current system (as seen through my own kids eyes) very definitely favors a liberal arts education over what they call 'vocational training.' So I don't really agree with their observation. There is much more push to dive into the liberal arts than into engineering, architecture, etc... Even those degrees have far more liberal arts requirements with them than they used too. In my view, we are not coming close to producing enough people who invent, create and make things. We are not positioned well (technologically) to 'invent' the new 'green technologies' that so many desire. Other countries (ironically, the ones who are purported to be the biggest 'green abusers') are far more ready to create new technologies because they are educating a lot more engineers...or they're sending them here for us to educate.
* Star faculty members and their interests. Mostly agree with their observations on this.
* Government pouring too much money into research? Agree, maybe, sort of. I'd say its more about how they (we) pour it in. Congress writes a bill to spend a lot of money on XYZ. Government agency gets this gigantic glob of money for XYZ that they didn't necessarily ask for, but now they have to spend it...FAST! So they do...and a lot of it creates jobs, but doesn't produce sustainable jobs. This is happening, en masse right now with the stimulus bill of a year ago. Maybe a good idea? But an implementation that is not good, not good at all. Don't blame the educators (IMO), blame the politicians who are trying to garner votes at home for their 'good deeds.'
* Tenure? Mostly agree. My parents would have agreed too. Its an old system that needs an overhaul. I like the way my kids' HS does it (private school). First 2-4 years...you are being evaluated fairly closely. If you are kept beyond that, you get the benefit of the doubt...unless you hit a bad streak of a couple/few years. No formal tenure, a bit of stability given to you when you earn it, but no lifetime contract.
* Engineering degree in two years? Laughable. I'll assert that it takes about 5-6 years...to do it right.
* Take a year or two or three to think about what you want to do after college? OK, maybe in some cases...but as a rule? No. From my perspective, this thinking (clearly delivered at schools today) has delivered too many college graduates who think their first job is a playground...no need to produce...just sit and think and ponder 'what to do.' Yes, even the engineers are starting to be this way. My wife works at Cisco...they get people like this too...they don't last long. So maybe they should go work at Old Navy...but what skill does that provide for me to want to hire them? For Cisco or GoldmanSachs or whomever? I think what they propose is a big problem. A very big problem and I know a lot of employers who agree with me.
* Big college sports programs a problem? Lets see how that plays on here. No further comment.
* Schools with no grades, 'free thinking', etc..? Nonsense. My experience with my own kids' college educations that 'free thinking' means pushing a certain political agenda by the liberal arts professor. It doesn't really mean free thinking. It means thinking their way.
I guess I don't agree with much of this book/article now that I think about it. If your kid follows their advice, we won't be hiring you and thats ok (for both of us).
The article seems to be promoting the 'dumbing down' of American Universities into little more than a continuation of the K-12 babysittig service.
The politicians decreed that all students should be prepared for college when they left high school with the establishment of the Department of Education. This led to more and more remedial instruction during the first year of college. It also led to the invention of courses of study in varying grades of minutia and culture. It led to college for many being four more years high school.
Most of our colleges and universities were established with strong religious tenets and a requirement of Greek classics and philosophy. I was surprised to see that most of our most notable universities were established around divinity schools.
There was a right and wrong way to do things.
Today, the Judeo-Christian ethic is under attack in our universities. While the history of religions may be less than Godly, the omission of the barbarity of other religions is even more harmful.
Athletics have always been an extension of the Greek games and our western lifestyle. American Universities invented games unique to this nation that satisfied the questions of which school produced the more virile graduates.
Today, American invented sports are constantly under attack in favor of European round ball, that was thrust upon the world through years of imperialism.
We are at a cross roads. We will either stand up for who we are and the greatness of our nation, or we will be 'tolerant' and submissive to the new invasive sports, philosophies and religions.
The politicians decreed that all students should be prepared for college when they left high school with the establishment of the Department of Education. This led to more and more remedial instruction during the first year of college. It also led to the invention of courses of study in varying grades of minutia and culture. It led to college for many being four more years high school.
Most of our colleges and universities were established with strong religious tenets and a requirement of Greek classics and philosophy. I was surprised to see that most of our most notable universities were established around divinity schools.
There was a right and wrong way to do things.
Today, the Judeo-Christian ethic is under attack in our universities. While the history of religions may be less than Godly, the omission of the barbarity of other religions is even more harmful.
Athletics have always been an extension of the Greek games and our western lifestyle. American Universities invented games unique to this nation that satisfied the questions of which school produced the more virile graduates.
Today, American invented sports are constantly under attack in favor of European round ball, that was thrust upon the world through years of imperialism.
We are at a cross roads. We will either stand up for who we are and the greatness of our nation, or we will be 'tolerant' and submissive to the new invasive sports, philosophies and religions.
quote:Today, American invented sports are constantly under attack in favor of European round ball, that was thrust upon the world through years of imperialism.
Huh?
Do you know how baseball spread around the world? US servicemen.
Equating the actions of US service men during World War 2 as 'imperialism' is exactly what the USA haters would have us believe.
And to top it off, Obama is supposed to have a US ambasador sent to Japan to apologize for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This is nothing more than revisionist history that is being used to tear this nation apart at its very foundation.
And to top it off, Obama is supposed to have a US ambasador sent to Japan to apologize for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This is nothing more than revisionist history that is being used to tear this nation apart at its very foundation.
I was going by how much of the rest of the world perceives the US whether right or wrong. You did not respond to my main response that makes absolutely no sense to me.
"Today, American invented sports are constantly under attack in favor of European round ball, that was thrust upon the world through years of imperialism."
I don't see it. I've never heard it said before. I don't understand the logic behind the statement. I do see Americans unwilling to recognize s0ccer is the most popular sport in the world.
"Today, American invented sports are constantly under attack in favor of European round ball, that was thrust upon the world through years of imperialism."
I don't see it. I've never heard it said before. I don't understand the logic behind the statement. I do see Americans unwilling to recognize s0ccer is the most popular sport in the world.
Your paranoia is out of control. He did not accuse the US of imperialism. He merely pointed out how baseball spread, which is generally accepted to be an accurate observation. On the other hand, I have never heard of the "European Round Ball Imperialism" theory before. Enough with the blasted conspiracy theories.
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
Equating the actions of US service men during World War 2 as 'imperialism' is exactly what the USA haters would have us believe.
And to top it off, Obama is supposed to have a US ambasador sent to Japan to apologize for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This is nothing more than revisionist history that is being used to tear this nation apart at its very foundation.
justbaseball,
Nice post. I will say that I'm seeing some pretty sharp, hardworking engineers coming out of school myself though.
Nice post. I will say that I'm seeing some pretty sharp, hardworking engineers coming out of school myself though.
The implication baseball was spread by imperialism was obvious in the tie in that it was spread by the US military. The US did not colonize any country during or after WW2.
To deny the influx of European round ball into our youth sports is frivolous. This has been a conscious movement by the Left to introduce European culture as a replacement of our own.
No paranoia on my part, just reality.
To point out that 'tolerance' is being used against us, the mosque being planned and built at Ground Zero is about as insensitive as the mosque built in the Temple at Luxor, Egypt. The mosque is dedicated to Abu Haggag and as well as his tomb the tomb of his two sons. Not vert pharoahonic.
To deny the influx of European round ball into our youth sports is frivolous. This has been a conscious movement by the Left to introduce European culture as a replacement of our own.
No paranoia on my part, just reality.
To point out that 'tolerance' is being used against us, the mosque being planned and built at Ground Zero is about as insensitive as the mosque built in the Temple at Luxor, Egypt. The mosque is dedicated to Abu Haggag and as well as his tomb the tomb of his two sons. Not vert pharoahonic.
As youth sports kept starting earlier and earlier in age, s0ccer is the easiest to play (although incorrectly) at very young ages. I don't believe there's a leftist agenda to have s0ccer take over the US. It will never happen.quote:To deny the influx of European round ball into our youth sports is frivolous. This has been a conscious movement by the Left to introduce European culture as a replacement of our own.
The average sports fan doesn't like low scoring sports. They need instant gratification and fireworks scoring. Even in baseball only an afficianado appreciates a well pitched 2-1 game. The average fan calls it boring. What did baseball do when scores went down? Lowered the mound and one league instituted the DH to increase scoring.
Even hockey was very regional many years ago due to low scores. Then the Gretzky era and higher scoring occurred. The NHL took off in popularity. The NHL expanded to warm weather areas. Hockey was cool to watch. Now that games are back to typically low scores the NHL is on the decline.
I don't think people should air their political views on a baseball website. And, if they do, at least get it right. The conservative CSNNews.com ran this article today noting that there would be no apology to the Japanese.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/70500.
Keep the politics on the op-ed page or, at a minimum, get the facts correct before you spout.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/70500.
Keep the politics on the op-ed page or, at a minimum, get the facts correct before you spout.
Well it wasn't obvious to me, but I'm not constantly looking over my shoulder or looking in closets.
So s****r is being used to infiltrate our society? Dang. Learn something new every day. How about them tacos and quesadilla things? Are the Mexican drug lords using them to send us into Reefer Madness?
So s****r is being used to infiltrate our society? Dang. Learn something new every day. How about them tacos and quesadilla things? Are the Mexican drug lords using them to send us into Reefer Madness?
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
The implication baseball was spread by imperialism was obvious in the tie in that it was spread by the US military. The US did not colonize any country during or after WW2.
To deny the influx of European round ball into our youth sports is frivolous. This has been a conscious movement by the Left to introduce European culture as a replacement of our own.
No paranoia on my part, just reality.
To point out that 'tolerance' is being used against us, the mosque being planned and built at Ground Zero is about as insensitive as the mosque built in the Temple at Luxor, Egypt. The mosque is dedicated to Abu Haggag and as well as his tomb the tomb of his two sons. Not vert pharoahonic.
There you go again, ruining a perfectly good conspiracy theory with facts.
quote:Originally posted by Just Watching:
I don't think people should air their political views on a baseball website. And, if they do, at least get it right. The conservative CSNNews.com ran this article today noting that there would be no apology to the Japanese.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/70500.
Keep the politics on the op-ed page or, at a minimum, get the facts correct before you spout.
The post was and is about American Universities.
Your article says things like Roos is not scheduled to speak as well as an apology is unlikely. Nowhere is there a definitive No.
I don't know about the Mexican drug lords, but the millions of illegal Mexican immigrants are having a major impact on our unemployment numbers.
Your article says things like Roos is not scheduled to speak as well as an apology is unlikely. Nowhere is there a definitive No.
I don't know about the Mexican drug lords, but the millions of illegal Mexican immigrants are having a major impact on our unemployment numbers.
quote:I don't know about the Mexican drug lords, but the millions of illegal Mexican immigrants are having a major impact on our unemployment numbers.
i don't care for politics,this is not meant to be political.
but this is our doing. we as a nation don't like sweat jobs, yet somebody has to do it. we opened the door for this, somebody just forgot to close it.